Getting ready for summer.

[Anonymous]

wow!  impressive work.  Thank you!  I will share.

[webdiva]

I don't think nihil is a troll.  I recognize the anger.  I bet he is a victim.  He has a point.  

I would recommend remembering when that teenager was just a little guy.  Remember the things HE liked to do.  Just hang out with him sometime and get to know him.  Let him find that trust in you again.  He may be having symptoms remembering something that happend to him.  He could be an outcast at school.  Not having friends or support at any age.. can make you feel invaluable. He could be going through a sexual orientation struggle.  Do something together without judgement or expectation.  Accept who he is as a person, not what you wish him to be.  That doesnt mean he gets to lay on your couch all summer.  Ask to listen to the music in the car when your together.  It may tell you a lot about what is going on.  You would be suprised what he would tell you if you listened.  Either way, you have your son now.  If  you send him to a program its a crap shoot.  There is no way to tell what "programs" are good and which ones tell you they are positive and turn out to be abuse and punitive.  Any program could have issues with sexual abuse from other students or staff .. that they could not prevent.  Most of these programs seem to be cult like.. in their theory of how they "care" for the children.  They will drain you and destroy your relationship with your son forever... if he he makes it back.  You might try a local center that has sports or arts type of activities he could do through the summer that might get him movtivated on what direction he would like to go.  He might just be confused and lost at what he is supposed to do now.  When you get past some of the rough stuff.  Offer bits of advise on small routines.  Doing things 15 minutes at a time.  It may take the pressure off how overwhelmed he probably feels with his future sneaking up on him.  

Relax mama, its probably a phase. Go to therapy with him. Make small, significant steps toward building a relationship with him.

Wishing you the best of all circumstances...

nihl is HARDLY a troll and i wouldn't say a victim although i know he has friends who are and has made friends who are and is just a damn compassionate person who actually gives a fuck. god forbid. Although im pretty sure he's a victim of having at least ONE fucked parent, as most of us seem to be.

and he can be disagree'd with by the likes of ME when i have a bad day and realize, well, i was having a bad day.

i think for the most part he's very positive, but i think it's also very easy to take things personally and to heart on a board like this given the subject matter.  we've all done it, hell i did just the other day, didn't i nihl? lol

Definitely not a troll, a good good guy he is. just my 2 cents.

Over and out!
~e to the b~

[Karass]

The situation sounds hard and worrisome.. but, a program should not be even considered at this stage.  If he were holding up liquor stores or harming someone.. that is different.

Very dangerous thinking there. You're basically saying a program might be the right thing if he were committing robbery or hurting people, but that a program is a bad idea when he's only smoking pot and drinking.

Potential program parents need to understand that these privately owned "reform schools" or prisons or whatever we want to call them do not offer evidence-based therapy or treatment. It's not a question of whether a kid is "bad" enough to benefit from a program.

[Truth Searcher]

Hi NervousMama~

Try to read around some of the rhetoric above ...there is some good advise.

TSW suggestions are VERY good.  No work.  No extras.  Period.  Lack is a pretty good motivator.

How about a volunteer job doing something he has passion about?  

Most kids dabble in substances.  I did.  You probably did.  How about inviting your son to share a beer with you on Saturday night while you sit on the deck and grill dinner?  I found that enjoying alcohol with my kids, in a reasonable manner removed some of the taboo.  I have been able to have conversations about drinking/reckless drinking etc.  Whereas I grew up in a dry home where alcohol was the 'devils drink' and very taboo.

Dark music.  My daughter's music scared me.  But, when I took the time to listen (to the music)  and to hear her reasons for listening it made alot of sense.  It gives expression to what they are feeling.  It articulates things that they are having trouble articulating.  My daughter used to fill notebooks with song lyrics ... really dark lyrics.  For her it was therapeutic.  Bear in mind also, this may just be a season in his life.  

Teenage angst in not pathology.  I wish I would have understood that concept better.

[exhausted]

I agree, there's some excellent advise here, although my lot would just raid the kitchen (hey don't even go there with the locks, been there done that)

All in all, I think everyones right, je's a 17 year old kid, a boy in a man's body who is confused as hell

Ask yourself something (I know I do this all the time) do you find yourself saying stuff like
"Grow up you're nearly an adult - 18 years old and you are an adult!"

then 10 minutes later

"All the time you are a minor living under my roof, you will abide by my rules"

It's confusing, try to see it through his eyes, we've all been that teen, we hated it and so do they

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

The situation sounds hard and worrisome.. but, a program should not be even considered at this stage.  If he were holding up liquor stores or harming someone.. that is different.

Very dangerous thinking there. You're basically saying a program might be the right thing if he were committing robbery or hurting people, but that a program is a bad idea when he's only smoking pot and drinking.

Potential program parents need to understand that these privately owned "reform schools" or prisons or whatever we want to call them do not offer evidence-based therapy or treatment. It's not a question of whether a kid is "bad" enough to benefit from a program.

Please don't read to much into that statement.   I was simpling saying is that the boy is doing is not doing anything that is alarming really.  He is harming himself in self destructive manner.  That he is not at any stage that a parent should even "consider" a program.  If any person is hurting someone else.. teenager, parent whowever .. at some point they may need some outside help and I can see where people may seek advise.  These programs sell themselves as actually curing these issues.  I can see where a parent might 'inquire' about it.  If you read my other posts you will see that I am completey opposed to sending a child to any type of camp or boarding school.   I was just saying he isnt doing anything outside of what a typical teenager does.  There is no cause for alarm.  

C'mon now, having a beer with your kid on the patio?  wtf?  Children need to know boundries and believe it or not like to know when they have hit them.  I don't think it is ever ok to let your children break the law.  It tells them its ok.   Would you do a line or roll a joint?  :-?

[Truth Searcher]

Drugs are illegal.  I don't do illegal drugs, so now I wouldn't roll a blunt and smoke it with them.  
 
I guess I feel it's my parental prerogative to allow them to have a glass of wine with dinner (when they were 18).  Or a beer on my patio.  Turn me in to Child Protective Services.  

OMG ... my Father In Law smoked stogies with them at deer camp and while fishing or on the golf course.  

And they don't have a curfew anymore.

At 18 years old, kids are responsible for determining what their healthy boundaries are.  Imposing boundaries on adult children is a bit controlling IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Gosh ya'll....  Thanks for the timely and thoughtful responses. I will make time after supper to sit down with my son-if he's willing- and read these stories together.

I should tell ya'lls tho. I think he might be drunk again tonight.

*long sigh*

 :cry:

[Oz girl]

Is it illegal to have a drink in your own home under parental supervision?
I grew up in a house where it was OK for anyone who wanted it to have a wine with dinner or a beer while cooking. I therefore get that it does not stop the binge drinking phase. But what it does do is model responsible consumption and set an example.

Nothing about this boys behaviour sounds alarming at all.

[Nihilanthic]

Is it illegal to have a drink in your own home under parental supervision?
I grew up in a house where it was OK for anyone who wanted it to have a wine with dinner or a beer while cooking. I therefore get that it does not stop the binge drinking phase. But what it does do is model responsible consumption and set an example.

Nothing about this boys behaviour sounds alarming at all.

The USA is fucked up, what can I say?

[exhausted]

Gosh ya'll....  Thanks for the timely and thoughtful responses. I will make time after supper to sit down with my son-if he's willing- and read these stories together.

I should tell ya'lls tho. I think he might be drunk again tonight.

*long sigh*

 :cry:

It's difficult when they're too drunk to get any sort of reasoning going

try when he's sober to ask him to sit with you for a minute or two, like someone else said, you got to do this in small chunks or he'll think you're nagging - just let him read a couple of posts at a time and discuss until he's bored, then let it go perhaps saying ' ok maybe later when you're ready' give him a smile so he sees those few moments as a positive thing ... the more he sees this is in you, the more he'll want to sit & discuss it al with you, he will come back eventually if you can stay strong, calm and smiley towards him, who wants to be round a nag? No teen i know...but a smiley mum who grits her teeth and says 'ok, have a good time, dont get too mashed ok cos I care about you' is a much better option - it's not you condoning the drinking, he's going to do that anyway, its all about slowly bringing them back to you and the rest will follow

[nimdA]

You know your son should abide by the rules of your home. That goes without question.

But ask yourself:

Are the rules logical? Do they make any sense?

Or

Are the rules such that they allow a 17 year old young adult a certain amount of lee way to go forth and learn how to be an adult?

Lots of times the rules we have are hold over rules. They are left over from years ago with no real need for them. Particularly when your son is 17.

Ask him what a good curfew is, and then compromise on it.

Ask him what house hold responsibilities he thinks are fair, then compromise on it.

Don't automatically give him what he wants, but compromise with him. For one it means you are communicating with him, and secondly you are teaching him how to reach compromises with people around him.

A pretty useful skill for all of us to learn.

Remember.. in the end you just want your kid to be safe, and happy. So the rules shouldn't be a cross you must bear to get him to comply to. Instead they should be away of you two bridging the gap between you with communication and compromise. If he screws up don't have an abritrary consquence. Tell him to figure out how to make it right, and you will be surprised of the results. Be flexible with them and account for his age.

Treat him like a young adult making his way into the world, and give him opprotunities to screw up. Then guide him through the process of finding ways to fix those screw ups. Be positive about it as these learning processes are all to often put on hold and crushed by the heavy hand of parenting.

Aight.. no more.. off I go.. Good luck with you..

[exhausted]

You've made a really good point about setting boundaries in order to be prepared to compromise

When i was setting the whole coming indoors time thing, my son was insisting on 10.00, so i took one step ahead of him and said 9.30 ... I disn't think 10 was too bad a time , but I wanted him to take some responsibility for setting his own reasonable curfew, anyway, we bartered back & forth, so I said "well, why don't we give each other 15 minutes?" We set it to 9.45 ... which is great, I felt like I'd managed to teach him a good skill, he felt like he got a result/one over on me, he's well happy he's managed to twist me round to his way of thinking  :wink:  good luck to him, let him think it

[Nihilanthic]

Uh, if you also thought 10pm was fine, you should have said "OK" not "Im going to impose and make you give me some time".

Theres no need to comprimise unless the whole point is to teach the kid to haggle.

Expect him to say 1 am soon  :wink:

[exhausted]

The whole idea of the exercis Niles, was to teach him responsibility for his 'in' time - I was ready for him to kick up a big fight and eventually say ok to the 10 O'clock, but he didn't, alls well on both sides.