Author Topic: Possible alternative??  (Read 7902 times)

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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 09:51:58 AM »
I'm all for exchange programs for as many people as possible. I'd hate to see them being used as an escape for kids needing to get away from douche bag parents, but sometimes that is what is needed.

Side Note:

Seriously people if you want to broaden your bean sprout's horizons send them to an exchange program. They really are a hell of a good deal. I wish I would have had the chance to do one when I was younger. Instead I put off traveling until I was nearly 30. Regardless the growth I've experienced as a person has been amazing. It really does go along way to opening up ones mind to new ideas.


Back on topic:

Now if you want to keep your kid out of drugs I suggest you not send him to Amsterdam. However, I do believe Castle is suggesting that the kids one would be considering are the sort that you wouldn't need to worry about them necking themselves in the middle of the night, or finding them with a needle full of herion stuffed in their vien whilst sitting on the commode. Just the average kids that are struggling with their parents that otherwise would be sent to a TBS out of the parent's sense of misguided fear.

At least that is my read on it.

Not sure if I am in full agreement with it, but it does bear further examination.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 10:08:05 AM »
If a parent has this much extra cash laying around (is this forum populated by only rich parents or something? I guess..) save it until they turn 18 and let them travel in between high school and college on their own. Fuck this 'living with another family' bullshit, let them do some real traveling and not have to deal with another group of controlling, expectation filled weirdos who don't even speak the same language and probably secretly despise Americans to begin with. At 18 they can drink and have fun on their own and not have to hide it from their replacement family.
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 10:19:31 AM »
Why in the hell would you pay for your kid to go get hammered for a year? Make them figure it out. If they want to go get drunk and screw everything with two legs then let them get a damn job and save the money to pay for it themselves.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2007, 10:21:02 AM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Why in the hell would you pay for your kid to go get hammered for a year? Make them figure it out. If they want to go get drunk and screw everything with two legs then let them get a damn job and save the money to pay for it themselves.


 :rofl:
That's the answer I was hoping to get.

This is the exact response that a ST is going to give when you post this on their forum Castle, word for word.

TSW why would it be different for a 17 or 18 year old, why is there such a huge distinction there?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2007, 10:25:26 AM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
However, I do believe Castle is suggesting that the kids one would be considering are the sort that you wouldn't need to worry about them necking themselves in the middle of the night, or finding them with a needle full of herion stuffed in their vien whilst sitting on the commode.

These aren't potential program parents. If they are, then only three words of advice is needed, no program necessary.



Quote
Just the average kids that are struggling with their parents that otherwise would be sent to a TBS out of the parent's sense of misguided fear.


So that same fear is going to allow them to send their child across the planet and have more freedoms than they've ever had in their life? How exactly would that thought process work? "Hey, I am terrified my kid is going to die of drugs, so I'll send them across the planet!" Get real.

This has nothing to do with the troubled teen industry at all.

The only connection is the agreement that many kids do not deserve private program placement. That doesn't mean you have to offer some other extravagant option as if they are the only two choices. I don't know what kind of nerd would enjoy being away from friends and school for a year to speak spanish or french to some strangers. We made fun of german exchange students at our school, they had no friends and had a horrible time. Maybe its because everyone called them nazis?
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2007, 10:30:15 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Why in the hell would you pay for your kid to go get hammered for a year? Make them figure it out. If they want to go get drunk and screw everything with two legs then let them get a damn job and save the money to pay for it themselves.

 :rofl:
That's the answer I was hoping to get.

This is the exact response that a ST is going to give when you post this on their forum Castle, word for word.

TSW why would it be different for a 17 or 18 year old, why is there such a huge distinction there?


In my mind I see it like this. If a 18 year old wants to travel then can go travel. They can also save up the expenses of such traveling before hand.

How is being 17 relavent to your original point when you stated that the parent should wait till their kid is 18. If the kid is 17 I still say they can save up their cash and pay for their own traveling. I was traveling all over the place, alone,  by the age of 17, though none of it was out of the country. I paid for the majority of it myself.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2007, 10:33:48 AM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
I do believe Castle is suggesting that the kids one would be considering are the sort that you wouldn't need to worry about them necking themselves in the middle of the night, or finding them with a needle full of herion stuffed in their vien whilst sitting on the commode. Just the average kids that are struggling with their parents that otherwise would be sent to a TBS out of the parent's sense of misguided fear.


You said you agree with this option for "average kids struggling with their parents", which is every teenager alive on the planet. So I asked why would a parent pay for a 17 year old or 14 year old to go on this trip, and not their 18 year old. What is the difference? A 14 year old will have just as much sex and booze as an 18 year old, the only difference is the parent "thinks" they aren't "Allowed" to do those things.Is being honest about it too scary?

What is an alternative for the kid strung out on coke, cutting themselves, suicidal, depressed, and hearing voices? Send them on a cruise to the Riviera?
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2007, 10:34:24 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
However, I do believe Castle is suggesting that the kids one would be considering are the sort that you wouldn't need to worry about them necking themselves in the middle of the night, or finding them with a needle full of herion stuffed in their vien whilst sitting on the commode.

These aren't potential program parents. If they are, then only three words of advice is needed, no program necessary.



Quote
Just the average kids that are struggling with their parents that otherwise would be sent to a TBS out of the parent's sense of misguided fear.





So that same fear is going to allow them to send their child across the planet and have more freedoms than they've ever had in their life? How exactly would that thought process work? "Hey, I am terrified my kid is going to die of drugs, so I'll send them across the planet!" Get real.

This has nothing to do with the troubled teen industry at all.

The only connection is the agreement that many kids do not deserve private program placement. That doesn't mean you have to offer some other extravagant option as if they are the only two choices. I don't know what kind of nerd would enjoy being away from friends and school for a year to speak spanish or french to some strangers. We made fun of german exchange students at our school, they had no friends and had a horrible time. Maybe its because everyone called them nazis?


No idea, but most of the exchange students at our school were treated pretty well. Maybe your school was filled with uncivilized morons? No telling what the case could be. However, I do agree that if a kids is capable of handling their own shit in another country makes a program a total joke. Now if you look over my post you will see where I said very clearly stated that I didn't completely agree with the scheme, but it still bears investigation.
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Offline nimdA

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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2007, 10:37:07 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
I do believe Castle is suggesting that the kids one would be considering are the sort that you wouldn't need to worry about them necking themselves in the middle of the night, or finding them with a needle full of herion stuffed in their vien whilst sitting on the commode. Just the average kids that are struggling with their parents that otherwise would be sent to a TBS out of the parent's sense of misguided fear.

You said you agree with this option for "average kids struggling with their parents", which is every teenager alive on the planet. So I asked why would a parent pay for a 17 year old or 14 year old to go on this trip, and not their 18 year old. What is the difference? A 14 year old will have just as much sex and booze as an 18 year old, the only difference is the parent "thinks" they aren't "Allowed" to do those things.Is being honest about it too scary?

What is an alternative for the kid strung out on coke, cutting themselves, suicidal, depressed, and hearing voices? Send them on a cruise to the Riviera?


No I did not agree with it. Please look my first post over carefully before you start jumping to conclusions. I said the idea is worth more investigation, even if I didn't completely agree with it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2007, 10:45:08 AM »
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""

Back on topic:

Now if you want to keep your kid out of drugs I suggest you not send him to Amsterdam. However, I do believe Castle is suggesting that the kids one would be considering are the sort that you wouldn't need to worry about them necking themselves in the middle of the night, or finding them with a needle full of herion stuffed in their vien whilst sitting on the commode. Just the average kids that are struggling with their parents that otherwise would be sent to a TBS out of the parent's sense of misguided fear.

At least that is my read on it.

Not sure if I am in full agreement with it, but it does bear further examination.


Yes it appears you did put in a disclaimer.
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Offline psy

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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2007, 10:57:43 AM »
There's no question at all that a vacation... or practically anything is a better alternative to program....  However, to me it seems like it's just postponing the inevitable conflict.  Sure a teen might get enough relaxation to get along with the parents for a while, but how long will that last?

Now if somebody could come up with a good idea on how to get the parents and kids talking to each-other and getting along... that would be impressive.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2007, 11:16:38 AM »
Quote from: ""psy""
There's no question at all that a vacation... or practically anything is a better alternative to program....  However, to me it seems like it's just postponing the inevitable conflict.  Sure a teen might get enough relaxation to get along with the parents for a while, but how long will that last?


I guess that would depend on how bad things were at home. From castle's original post i took it ot mean a situation where everyone is just driving each other a little bit mad and needed some time out to breathe as opposed to a totally disfunctional situation. Being a wide eyed optimist i tend to think that most families are in this boat.
I agree with truth searcher that an exchange or community service project is not appropriate for a kid with severe mental health issues, but then i dont think a program is either. The idea would be to send a kid on exchange before things had escalated to a totally out of control point.
As to willingness to go. Would it really occur to many kids to object too strongly? Not many people object to the chance to go on an adventure for a while.
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Offline try another castle

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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2007, 03:25:19 PM »
A few points regarding the responses:

1. Money. Is that really more than what you would be spending on a TBS? I don't think so.
2. Host families, from what I understand, need to be approved.
3. Truly troubled kids, i.e. hard-core drugs, suicide, cutting (that's really not that big of a deal, I've had people do it to me. It's a cross between a pain/pervert thing. Trust me.): I was depressed and had made two suicide attempts. Some time abroad definitely would have helped that. I know I am arguing the hypothetical here.
4. Time abroad and things will be exactly the same when they get back: Is that any different than a TBS? The only difference is that they are in a positive environment where they learn, not brainwashed into a false sense of well-being where they have no social skills coming out. Besides, I have a suspicion that a trip to another country is going to help turn a kid around a lot better than a TBS or doing nothing at all.
5. Academics: As I said before, there are cultural exchange programs (see my link in the initial post) that do not require knowing the native language or a high GPA. Max 2 months in the summer.
6. Sending your kid away is program mentality: Even the most troubled kid needs space once in a while. You may consider that you are "getting rid of your kid", but the kid is someplace positive. There is nothing wrong with needing space, just as long as the desire is not misplaced or abused.
7. Kids won't want to go. I agree to that possibility wholeheartedly. I myself would possibly be reluctant. This is where positive manipulation can come in. Sell your kid on it. I'm still working with this one. Even though there were things that were truly fucked up about me as a teen, there were still places I dreamed of going. Especially to get away from my parents. And like I said before, their same group of friends will be there when they get back. And hopefully, they will come back with pen (or email) pals after their experience.
8. What host family will want a troubled kid?: Who says the kid is going to be like that when they arrive in their host country? Give them some credit. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
9. Yes, I agree, Amsterdam is off limits. :) Despite the fact that nothing goes better with drugs than whores.

Quote
How is being 17 relavent to your original point when you stated that the parent should wait till their kid is 18. If the kid is 17 I still say they can save up their cash and pay for their own traveling. I was traveling all over the place, alone, by the age of 17, though none of it was out of the country. I paid for the majority of it myself.

But  not every kid is going to have as good a work ethic, gookie. Does that mean they shouldn't have the opportunity? There are lots of "non-troubled" teens who do foreign exchange and don't have the money for it.

Quote
Now if somebody could come up with a good idea on how to get the parents and kids talking to each-other and getting along... that would be impressive.


Problem is, psy, nobody is trained to be a parent. There may be books by idiots like Dr. Phil, but there is little truly useful things out there on how to work and communicate with a teenager who is an asshole, which is their job. My guess is that the best go-to person for this would be a GOOD schoolteacher, such as my best-friend. How to get along with a teenager? Good luck with that. That's like the holy grail of (as of yet) unanswerable questions.


My final point is: So what if the kid comes back and is still a sourpuss. At least you tried, you know? Couldn't hurt. Like I said, cheaper than a TBS or wilderness.
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Offline exhausted

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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2007, 07:08:02 PM »
We have exchange students here, it's a briliant way of getting abroad on the cheap! I can see how this would work with some children......

That said, the student has to meet the criteria, i.e. not be a problem in any shape or form, neither party would take on a 'troubled teen' (I hate that expression)
I also know for a fact not one of my boys would take up the opportunity, too low in self confidence - the 14 yr old went to Spain for a week with the school and loved every minute of it, but he was with his mates, I cried the whole week, he didn't give me a second thought  :-?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2007, 07:34:15 PM »
Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""
Hmmmm.

I suppose it depends on the "issues" that the teen is struggling with.  For my daughter, this would not have been a good option.  

She was clinically depressed.  Cutting herself.  Doing some hardcore drugs.   What host family would want to take on those types of issues?  


Yeah, this whole exchange program/overseas travel idea sounds great for kids whose only real issue is that they have dysfunctional parents or families. But it's ridiculous to think you can send an angry, depressed, hard-core drug addict with tons of emotional baggage to live with some strangers in another country...or worse, to travel alone in another country.

Not that you should send such a kid to a program either. But some kids really do need treatment, not just a 'cultural experience' or a change of scenery.
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