Post Program Discussion

[Truth Searcher]

I think most parents find out about these programs from program parent referrers, "Educational consultants", the internet, and Tv shows. It shows, in many cases, they purposely neglected contacting professionals and decided that they, as a parent, were apt enough to decide whether their child needed long term inpatient "care"

Honestly, I had never heard of Educational Consultants, escort services or therapeutic boarding schools.  

Our daughter's therapist (Ph.D psychologist specializing in 'personality disorders) made the suggestion of placement.  The scope of my knowledge about boarding schools was knowing that rich families sometimes sent their kids off to "finishing school" or college preparatory schools.  

So ... perhaps many parents do find their way to TBS's via other parents, educational consultants, the web and TV ... but I don't know if MOST go that route.  

You must also understand that many of us had tried impatient care.  It is woefully inadequate, not covered by insurance or not readily available.  But, that's a whole other discussion.

Many of us are duped by "professionals".  One must be extremely wary where one places trust.  Hard lesson learned for us.

How old was she when she entered?

Deborah~ she was 15.

[Anonymous]

Our daughter has been out of her program going on almost two years now.  And she is slowly -  very slowly - beginning to share details of her stay there.

She was not as unfortunate as many.  She was not systematically abused.  She was never hit.  Never denied meals or water.  And so on ... but there are components of her story and experience that still make me very angry.  Angry at me.  Angry at the staff.  Angry at the program.  Angry at the whole industry.  Sorry ... I digress.

She came crying to me one day and said that she had to "unload".  I held my breath and tried to conceal the panic that I felt.  She said that all of the "stuff" that she had told her therapist ... and consequently told us was mostly untruth.  All those shocking confessions of 'deviant' behavior.  Yes she did some drugs ... but not the extent that she told us while in her program.  Yes, she was involved sexually ... but not as promiscuously as she told us while in her program.  Yes she was running with a "tough" crowd ... but they weren't doing as much delinquent behavior as she had claimed while in her program.  

My first thought was what I had read here in terms of being 'brainwashed' into confessing to all sorts of untrue stuff.  That you were 'compelled' to confess in order to survive .  Ya know ... "gotta work the program".

But as she dialogged about her motivations to tell these stories, she feels that she did it more to "fit in" with the rough/tough crowd that makes up the rosters in TBS's and EGBS's.  Hmmm.

Poor kid.

The only thing she really struggled with was depression, cutting and  suicidal ideations.  And some normal teenage angst ... and the normal teenage autonomous behaviors.  

So.  It was an interesting conversation.  I am blessed that she is sharing this with me now.  I know that.  It speaks about her resilience and tenacity.  It speaks about her ability to forgive our horrible choice.  

It makes me all the more determined to speak out against institutionalizing our kids.

What program did she go to?

[Anonymous]

Far too well. And i've seen the most abused of em say "if my kid ever needed it, i'd send em to Benchmark".... and i'm just blown over by that... Program kids becoming program parents. In some people, the brainwashing is permanant. Lifton noted it's not common, but it happens... Some people, even after being removed from the thought reform enviornment, never snap out at all. Of course it helps that this particular person still talks to her staff counselor on a frequent basis... These people, who the brainwashing lasts on, for whom program becomes home, are the "queen bees"... off to go start a new hive.

Yup. Out of five kids and two parents, I've got a brother and a mother like that.

My feeling is it's down to time and pressure.  The person in question was there for about 2.5 years...  (12 months program my ass)

I was in for a year...  I wonder what i'd be like if I was there for 2+ years....  Oh yeah.. and she was still a level 1 after all that time...  Go figure.  Not her fault though.  They kept upgrading and downgrading her....  teaching a depressed girl the values of hard work...  The shit they did to her was beyond sick...  so far beyond sick...

what did they do psy...and why did they pick on her more than the others, if they did

[Anonymous]

They squirted her with piss-clams.

[psy]

Far too well. And i've seen the most abused of em say "if my kid ever needed it, i'd send em to Benchmark".... and i'm just blown over by that... Program kids becoming program parents. In some people, the brainwashing is permanant. Lifton noted it's not common, but it happens... Some people, even after being removed from the thought reform enviornment, never snap out at all. Of course it helps that this particular person still talks to her staff counselor on a frequent basis... These people, who the brainwashing lasts on, for whom program becomes home, are the "queen bees"... off to go start a new hive.

Yup. Out of five kids and two parents, I've got a brother and a mother like that.

My feeling is it's down to time and pressure.  The person in question was there for about 2.5 years...  (12 months program my ass)

I was in for a year...  I wonder what i'd be like if I was there for 2+ years....  Oh yeah.. and she was still a level 1 after all that time...  Go figure.  Not her fault though.  They kept upgrading and downgrading her....  teaching a depressed girl the values of hard work...  The shit they did to her was beyond sick...  so far beyond sick...

what did they do psy...and why did they pick on her more than the others, if they did

There were only so many people there with her particular issue at that time.  What they did to her had to do with that issue.  I can't really say without revealing her identity.  If she decides to come out and speak about it some day, that's her decision.  PM me and i'll give you some details.

[Ursus]

We are a culture of eloi... 30 plus years and I still can't talk to my mum.  She is in complete denial.

[sick of child torture girl]

Our daughter has been out of her program going on almost two years now.  And she is slowly -  very slowly - beginning to share details of her stay there.

She was not as unfortunate as many.  She was not systematically abused.  She was never hit.  Never denied meals or water.  And so on ... but there are components of her story and experience that still make me very angry.  Angry at me.  Angry at the staff.  Angry at the program.  Angry at the whole industry.  Sorry ... I digress.

She came crying to me one day and said that she had to "unload".  I held my breath and tried to conceal the panic that I felt.  She said that all of the "stuff" that she had told her therapist ... and consequently told us was mostly untruth.  All those shocking confessions of 'deviant' behavior.  Yes she did some drugs ... but not the extent that she told us while in her program.  Yes, she was involved sexually ... but not as promiscuously as she told us while in her program.  Yes she was running with a "tough" crowd ... but they weren't doing as much delinquent behavior as she had claimed while in her program.  

My first thought was what I had read here in terms of being 'brainwashed' into confessing to all sorts of untrue stuff.  That you were 'compelled' to confess in order to survive .  Ya know ... "gotta work the program".

But as she dialogged about her motivations to tell these stories, she feels that she did it more to "fit in" with the rough/tough crowd that makes up the rosters in TBS's and EGBS's.  Hmmm.

Poor kid.

The only thing she really struggled with was depression, cutting and  suicidal ideations.  And some normal teenage angst ... and the normal teenage autonomous behaviors.  

So.  It was an interesting conversation.  I am blessed that she is sharing this with me now.  I know that.  It speaks about her resilience and tenacity.  It speaks about her ability to forgive our horrible choice.  

It makes me all the more determined to speak out against institutionalizing our kids.

To be brainwashed you dont necessariy beleive that you have done what you admit to- thats a higher level of brainwahing. The lower level of brainwashing is that you feel what you admit to has some essential truth even if not strictly true, you "learned" something at prgram, program taught you "not to act out", or made you more respectful -even if it did go to far etc.

I doubt she was admitting to counselors things "just to fit in" I suspect that is just how she explains it to you ,prehaps to herself. Fitting in, can mean bowing to that "positive peer culture", which is the same as being coerrced into self incrimination. You dont have a chioce not to confess if you want to leave or be safe

I have cettainly lied to impress freinds...but it didnt get written down in confessions and relayed by therepists to show my parent how sick I am and how much I need program and am getting better. Obviously there is something more pernicous at hand

I dont say this to be mean in any way , but you should realize that her dialogue with you is unlikely to be "honest" either. Unwittingly or not, you have put her in a deadly situation and kept her there. You also can send her back anytime you like.The program folk are not the only one she has stockholm syndrome with and whom she needs to empathize and please to survive. Its the sad subtext for the relationship now

[psy]

Our daughter has been out of her program going on almost two years now.  And she is slowly -  very slowly - beginning to share details of her stay there.

She was not as unfortunate as many.  She was not systematically abused.  She was never hit.  Never denied meals or water.  And so on ... but there are components of her story and experience that still make me very angry.  Angry at me.  Angry at the staff.  Angry at the program.  Angry at the whole industry.  Sorry ... I digress.

She came crying to me one day and said that she had to "unload".  I held my breath and tried to conceal the panic that I felt.  She said that all of the "stuff" that she had told her therapist ... and consequently told us was mostly untruth.  All those shocking confessions of 'deviant' behavior.  Yes she did some drugs ... but not the extent that she told us while in her program.  Yes, she was involved sexually ... but not as promiscuously as she told us while in her program.  Yes she was running with a "tough" crowd ... but they weren't doing as much delinquent behavior as she had claimed while in her program.  

My first thought was what I had read here in terms of being 'brainwashed' into confessing to all sorts of untrue stuff.  That you were 'compelled' to confess in order to survive .  Ya know ... "gotta work the program".

But as she dialogged about her motivations to tell these stories, she feels that she did it more to "fit in" with the rough/tough crowd that makes up the rosters in TBS's and EGBS's.  Hmmm.

Poor kid.

The only thing she really struggled with was depression, cutting and  suicidal ideations.  And some normal teenage angst ... and the normal teenage autonomous behaviors.  

So.  It was an interesting conversation.  I am blessed that she is sharing this with me now.  I know that.  It speaks about her resilience and tenacity.  It speaks about her ability to forgive our horrible choice.  

It makes me all the more determined to speak out against institutionalizing our kids.

To be brainwashed you dont necessariy beleive that you have done what you admit to- thats a higher level of brainwahing. The lower level of brainwashing is that you feel what you admit to has some essential truth even if not strictly true, you "learned" something at prgram, program taught you "not to act out", or made you more respectful -even if it did go to far etc.

I doubt she was admitting to counselors things "just to fit in" I suspect that is just how she explains it to you ,prehaps to herself. Fitting in, can mean bowing to that "positive peer culture", which is the same as being coerrced into self incrimination. You dont have a chioce not to confess if you want to leave or be safe

I have cettainly lied to impress freinds...but it didnt get written down in confessions and relayed by therepists to show my parent how sick I am and how much I need program and am getting better. Obviously there is something more pernicous at hand

I dont say this to be mean in any way , but you should realize that her dialogue with you is unlikely to be "honest" either. Unwittingly or not, you have put her in a deadly situation and kept her there. You also can send her back anytime you like.The program folk are not the only one she has stockholm syndrome with and whom she needs to empathize and please to survive. Its the sad subtext for the relationship now

Unfortunately, like it or not, there is going to be a level of fear there.  I urge you to emphasize that you would never ever consider sending her back, and you never ever would have sent her if you knew what it was like.

[Deborah]

Honestly, I had never heard of Educational Consultants, escort services or therapeutic boarding schools.

Same here. When I got the call that they had my son and started laying out when we would have contact (rather, how little contact we'd have for 20 monts), I asked if they were a detention center? No. A psych facility? No, a TBS. What the hell's a TBS? They even provided a dx of ODD, based on his 'paying' father's complaints. I said something to the effect that they couldn't contact without a court order. Well..... indeed they did, and provided perjured testimony in order to keep him there.  

So ... perhaps many parents do find their way to TBS's via other parents, educational consultants, the web and TV ... but I don't know if MOST go that route.

 

Ex's therapist refered to EC. As for HLA, their demographics sheet stated that 64% of their referals came from ECs.

You must also understand that many of us had tried impatient care.  It is woefully inadequate, not covered by insurance or not readily available.  But, that's a whole other discussion.

Ironic, huh? That insurance won't pay for inpatient, but will pay for TBSs that aren't regulated, evidence-based or have any research to support that they are effective. And, that parents can apply for 'educational loans' for TBSs, and particularly wilderness.

Many of us are duped by "professionals".  One must be extremely wary where one places trust.  Hard lesson learned for us.

That's very true. The EC my ex used didn't know anything about HLA. Or my son, for that matter!! Not kidding. Have you spoken to the therapist since her return? Probably be useful for him/her to hear from you.

How old was she when she entered?

Deborah~ she was 15.[/quote]
That's really young. My son turned 14 the day before he was enrolled at HLA. In the tape recordings of our conversations he sounds like a little boy, voice hadn't changed yet. He went through puberty in a gulag warehouse. I resent that they stole that time from me and my son, for their own greedy purposes.
And to add insult to injury, one of them is posting in the HLA forum that I lost custody of my son.
Do demented people flock to these places, or what? Sadistic bastards.

[Anonymous]

Do demented people flock to these places, or what? Sadistic bastards.

I think so.. in addition to creating them.

[Anonymous]

I dont say this to be mean in any way , but you should realize that her dialogue with you is unlikely to be "honest" either. Unwittingly or not, you have put her in a deadly situation and kept her there. You also can send her back anytime you like.The program folk are not the only one she has stockholm syndrome with and whom she needs to empathize and please to survive. Its the sad subtext for the relationship now

Thats a very good point.

[exhausted]

These programs, are not "the experts". They are known as an alternative to traditional treatment.

Yes VERY poor choice of words there, thank you for pointing that out. It's this kind of crap that really makes me wonder where you're coming from, exhausted.

Well if you'd read other posts made by me you'd know that I call these people the 'experts' as a form of sarcasm......a parent scared to death is going to believe what these people say is best for their child because they are supposedly qualified to deal with the best for your child, who would have thought that earning out of it would come before your child's welfare? When you're a very very frightened parent, you go to the person who specialises in that field, you trust them, you don't sit & think 'I wonder if he really cares about my kid or whether hes going to make a referral fee out of this'

If your child has broken a leg you take him to the hospital, do you ever question that sending him on to an expensive physical therapist after is going to gain him a referral fee? No, you go because the doctor is the 'expert' and that is what he says will make your child better ... that is where I am coming from.

[Truth Searcher]

You also can send her back anytime you like

Are you freaking kidding me??

 I regret our decision.  I hate what we did to her.  With the perspective of hindsight, I would never send her away again.

In addition, she's now a legal adult.  She is sailing her own ship.  And she's doing a find job I might add.

[exhausted]

Truth Searcher

I think that was meant as 'She sees a risk of being sent back as you have that option' not that you actualy would send her back, and therefore she would have that mistrust ... I don't think anyone knew her age, now we do we know it is not an option

[Antigen]

We are a culture of eloi... 30 plus years and I still can't talk to my mum.  She is in complete denial.

That's what I mean when I say that we, our whole big unhappy dysfunctional global village, are being domesticated. We all got a potent dose of it early on. And the old heads among us have seen the long term effects. But don't think that makes us an exclusive group or that no one on the outside can understand. The Program is not a fringe anomaly. Its practices and ideology have become broadly accepted as hard fact based science. That's why I feel an obligation and self interest (who will change my diapers when I'm old and incontinent? Who will take care of my grandchildren when they're grown?) to keep carrying this torch and keep trying to bring about a broader, more colorful dialog and understanding of what we're all bitchin and gripin about.