Ha, Ha, Ha, this is funny.

[psy]

In other, simpler words, Who, you think we'd be a whole lot more effective as advocates if only we would work the Program on each other and control the dialog the way you're accustomed to doing? Good luck with that!

We don’t need to work a program on each other, just not hold up a double standard.  If a program parent steps out of line and says something that doesn’t agree with the majority everyone steps in to point it out, which is great, you are all pulling together (checks and balances) lets get an apology etc.
But flip it over and say a poster jumps on a program parent and scuffs them up a little more than they should; no one, typically, steps in to say “Hey you were out of line, how do you know he was a bad parent….”

I've been known to do this...  but only because I know that program often paint parents as evil to promote this sort of thing.  And all I ever say is "are you sure they knew...  because i thought the same and I was wrong"

Or if someone tosses out a half truth to lead a reader to believe something that isn’t true or makes a school look bad, there doesn’t seem to be a rush to correct the accusation.

Because i've so often seen things that sound absurd, actually turn out to be true.  I've actually doubted some of the things some Benchmark survivors have told me, only to find out with further research, that what they said is actually true.

All I am saying is if everyone is bent out of shape because of my insult, where are these people when the insult is unfairly directed at the parents, should they be banned?  Should they apologize?  Should their feet be held to the fire also?
It would add more credability to the people here.

Should they be banned, no.  Should they apologize?  maybe, it's up to them.  Should thier feet be held to the fire also?  It depends on who'se holding them.  Most people here are not program parents.  It's a mob effect.  Credability?  Are we supposed to tone down what actually happened to make it sound more plausible?

[Anonymous]

During the PURE vs. WWASPS trial some of the jurors cried as they watched video clips of the “Box,” where American
children were reportedly hog-tied, hand-cuffed, duct-taped, starved, and slugged by staff.

When asked about whether using "3 inch tape" or "duct tape" constituted abuse in his opinion, he responded with this - "I, I, uh, I dont know I don't think I'm the right person to answer that question, I really honestly don't dont know that that would be... abuse. I really... (smiling) I know that you'd like to get an answer but I really don't know and I don't know how I feel about it, I uld probably be appropriate. Not at one of our schools but in the public system, and once in a while with my own children I thought, man, that wouldn't be a bad idea." - Ken Kay (President of WWASP)

Photos were shown of children who were locked inside The ISO Box (Isolation Box), a wooden structure no larger than a small closet at WWASP's Paradise Cove program in Western Samoa. Children told of their experiences when they were hog-tied, struck by staff members, and duct-taped during their stay. When an investigation into allegations of child abuse and neglect was initiated, WWASP closed this program.

I was often struck by WWASP's harassment of the parents who testified. For example, Fred Silvester, WWASP’s attorney, was asking Mr. Goodwin, a father whose son was in WWASP’s High Impact, about a comment made having to do with going to look around the "school". In what appeared to me to be a sharp, sarcastic tone, he asks, "And what did you see?" I guess maybe he thought Mr. Goodwin would say, happy kids soaking up knowledge! Mr. Goodwin responded, "Well, I looked in one door and saw a girl sitting with a three inch strip of duct tape across her mouth." Silvester’s back went stiff, as he drummed his fingers on the podium; Then he waves his hand at Mr. Goodwin and snaps, "You just made that up, didn't you?!"

"NO I did NOT just make that up!" was Mr. Goodwin's adamant reply.

It was powerful.

It was during Mr. Goodwin's testimony about High Impact that I learned some things I had not been aware of before. He explained how the staff used cattle prods to terrify the students and keep them in the stress positions. It was either maintain the position, or get a jolt from the cattle prod. They would strike the ground and create a discharged by the kids' heads, so they would know the prod was hot.

Enough controversy, including records supplied to officials that allegedly documented restraints used against children such as handcuffs, pepper spray and duct tape, led the Boonville City Council on Monday to unanimously reject Lichfield's offer.

TheWho: Why do you think this is a big fucking joke?

[Anonymous]

It does make you wonder why they keep coming back. TheWho and KarenInDallas are both similar in that the both have severe grandiose delusions about their divine mission in life to "Add balance" to the fornits forum. AntigenGhost is right, once one leaves, another one comes in to take their place. And they think it's some sort of noble cause...are they crazy or something?

[try another castle]

Honestly, I'm not usually a terribly spiteful person, but I hope you land up in some horribly abusive, filthy, cold drafty nursing home one day. You'll be the only one who thinks you're not completely senile, though you'll struggle with doubts about that constantly. You'll piss yourself and be shamed and punished for it. You'll cry, which will give the staff a good laugh. Your kids won't believe you if you try to tell them what's happening because, of course, you're fucking nuts, right? Poor dear old dad, losing his mind that way...

Extremely well put.

Until that time, though. I feel very bad for his "kid". (daughter, right?) Even though I myself have program parents, I would never want to be his son. All of the condescending, belittling, double-talk, mindfuckery is worthy of the program.

[Rachael]

To Ginger,

It's been a few days that I've spent trying to decide whether I can keep posting here or not. I have not yet been the recipient of an attack from the Who, but frankly I don't think I could handle it if my also horrific story was mocked and torn apart as happened to Programmer #A-5. It hurt me a lot just to read Who's response to that. I really think it might be too much to have that happen. So, I've been seriously considering leaving despite how cathartic (love that word) fornits has been for me. And on mulling that over, I don't think I should have to leave. I had to leave my family, friends, school, job, and everything I knew and loved once already because of people like the Who, and I don't want to let that happen again. So, I would like to maybe offer a proposed solution...


The Who is like a plague of sorts (let's say smallpox), spreading all sorts of nastiness and contaminating everything it touches. For some, it makes the body stronger and better able to deal with the next pestilence that comes along. However, for many others, the nasty disease can be too strong and take you out entirely. Perhaps it may be best to quarantine the smallpox, and only those who feel strong enough need venture into dangerous territory.

Enough with the cryptic analogy, can you create a thread to which the Who will be restricted (by IP I'd imagine)? Allow the Who to post, he can copy bits from other threads and go off on rants as much as he so desires, but will be prevented from hurting those of us who are struggling as it is. That way, he still acts as the exemplar of what we're working against, but doesn't destroy fledgling attempts to tell our horrific war stories such as that of Programmer #A-5. That way, people like myself won't have to leave or enable heavy self-censorship to protect against passive-aggressive Who attacks.

Anyway, I do very much appreciate the situation you're in and the difficulty of addressing all the facets to this issue. Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be well thought out.


Thanks for everything,

Rachael

[Troll Control]

Hey, Who, I see you all the time saying you are "adding balance to the discussion here."  

Out of curiousity, can you link me to the pro-program, one-sided sites like StrugglingTeens (there are literally thousands of them) where you post items that reflect programs in poor light to "add balance"?  I'd like to see those, since you're on a crusade for "balance" and all.  

I'll wait for your response and links.  Thanks.

Devon, glade to hear you are doing well.  I will PM you with that information, thanks for asking.

Can you please just post those links reflecting the "balance" you've added to pro-program sites here? I'm very interested to see these "balancing" posts that have made the dialogue fair at those other sites you post on.

[TheWho]

Hey, Who, I see you all the time saying you are "adding balance to the discussion here."  

Out of curiousity, can you link me to the pro-program, one-sided sites like StrugglingTeens (there are literally thousands of them) where you post items that reflect programs in poor light to "add balance"?  I'd like to see those, since you're on a crusade for "balance" and all.  

I'll wait for your response and links.  Thanks.

Devon, glade to hear you are doing well.  I will PM you with that information, thanks for asking.

Can you please just post those links reflecting the "balance" you've added to pro-program sites here? I'm very interested to see these "balancing" posts that have made the dialogue fair at those other sites you post on.

No, I dont have any links to other web sites.

[Troll Control]

Hey, Who, I see you all the time saying you are "adding balance to the discussion here."  

Out of curiousity, can you link me to the pro-program, one-sided sites like StrugglingTeens (there are literally thousands of them) where you post items that reflect programs in poor light to "add balance"?  I'd like to see those, since you're on a crusade for "balance" and all.  

I'll wait for your response and links.  Thanks.

Devon, glade to hear you are doing well.  I will PM you with that information, thanks for asking.

Can you please just post those links reflecting the "balance" you've added to pro-program sites here? I'm very interested to see these "balancing" posts that have made the dialogue fair at those other sites you post on.

No, I dont have any links to other web sites.

Nooo...  Of course you don't.  Your "mission" isn't to "bring balance" to discussions about the industry, it's to single-mindedly promote it!

Truth is, you could give a damn about "balance" or kids for that matter.  All you care about is that TBS's make money - as much and as quickly as possible - the kids' treatment and legal rights be damned.

Thanks for clearing that up!

[TheWho]

DJ wrote:

Nooo... Of course you don't. Your "mission" isn't to "bring balance" to discussions about the industry, it's to single-mindedly promote it!

Truth is, you could give a damn about "balance" or kids for that matter. All you care about is that TBS's make money - as much and as quickly as possible - the kids' treatment and legal rights be damned.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Your welcome ! Sounds like you have it all figured out....good for you!  Its so discouraging when we all sit here not knowing who the other person is and why they are here.  It helps to believe you have the other person figured out.  I do the same thing, sometimes, when I am responding to some people.

[RobertBruce]

So youre acknowledging then you dont bring any sort of balance. Good. Finally.

[sick of child torture girl]

To Ginger,

It's been a few days that I've spent trying to decide whether I can keep posting here or not. I have not yet been the recipient of an attack from the Who, but frankly I don't think I could handle it if my also horrific story was mocked and torn apart as happened to Programmer #A-5. It hurt me a lot just to read Who's response to that. I really think it might be too much to have that happen. So, I've been seriously considering leaving despite how cathartic (love that word) fornits has been for me. And on mulling that over, I don't think I should have to leave. I had to leave my family, friends, school, job, and everything I knew and loved once already because of people like the Who, and I don't want to let that happen again. So, I would like to maybe offer a proposed solution...


The Who is like a plague of sorts (let's say smallpox), spreading all sorts of nastiness and contaminating everything it touches. For some, it makes the body stronger and better able to deal with the next pestilence that comes along. However, for many others, the nasty disease can be too strong and take you out entirely. Perhaps it may be best to quarantine the smallpox, and only those who feel strong enough need venture into dangerous territory.

Enough with the cryptic analogy, can you create a thread to which the Who will be restricted (by IP I'd imagine)? Allow the Who to post, he can copy bits from other threads and go off on rants as much as he so desires, but will be prevented from hurting those of us who are struggling as it is. That way, he still acts as the exemplar of what we're working against, but doesn't destroy fledgling attempts to tell our horrific war stories such as that of Programmer #A-5. That way, people like myself won't have to leave or enable heavy self-censorship to protect against passive-aggressive Who attacks.

Anyway, I do very much appreciate the situation you're in and the difficulty of addressing all the facets to this issue. Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will be well thought out.


Thanks for everything,

Rachael

[TheWho]

I'm leaning towards your side as well. The thread title seemed so absurd to me I laughed my ass off, thinking it was a joke.

Ooops, looks like someone else is in trouble also.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=255711#255711

[Anonymous]

TheWHo: Take the time to read Racahels post above yours and please understand that you hurt program surviovrs with your callous remarks. You have a billion program owned forums to go to, this is the only one for survivors. So either you don't care about hurting people who were already hurt a million times over, or you do it on purpose without bother, which is it?

[RobertBruce]

Ooops, looks like someone else is in trouble also.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=255711#255711

Cindy why don't you try something new for a change. Instead of trying to deflect the issue onto someone else or paint someone as being just as bad as you (per your usual MO). Why dont you try being a man and owning up to your comments. Just once Cindy, give it a try.

[Antigen]

TheWHo: Take the time to read Racahels post above yours and please understand that you hurt program surviovrs with your callous remarks. You have a billion program owned forums to go to, this is the only one for survivors. So either you don't care about hurting people who were already hurt a million times over, or you do it on purpose without bother, which is it?

No wait, this is not the only forum. It's the only one I know of that has a completely neutral administrative policy. But there are closed groups and private lists, circles of friends who stay in touch privately, etc. If there's no one you like, start one.

I would hope PA5 does check back once in awhile and take some comfort in seeing Who pilloried and owned for his bullshit. I understand it's disturbing to see a Program drone spew the same old bullshit, but I find it a great comfort to see the vast majority of readers completely disgusted with him over it.

And it demonstrates the glaring flaw in Program believers' thinking; it only makes sense if you discard out of hand virtually all of the facts of the matter.

I do NOT ask or want anybody to post about anything that they don't want bandied about as ammunition in this ongoing war. I hope that PA5 wasn't expecting unanimous support; that they understood going in that the pod people are just as free to spew their bullshit as anybody else who takes a notion to hold forth on their views. If not, I don't know what else I can do except for find a way to make it even more clear that this is an open forum, no protections, no holds barred.

I hope no one continues participating in this out of a sense of obligation. If you're burnt on it or whatever then don't keep it up. There's no requirement for participation except for a willingness to do so. And don't worry about losing the debate by default. Believe me, there is an endless supply of people like us who know the truth and have the impetus to tell it. You're under no obligation to champion the cause or whatever.

But if it's not rewarding for you in some way then please ignore fornits. There's no penalty for bouncing off. Come back around when you are in the mood to pimp-slap the shit out of some pod people. They'll always be around too cause they usually don't have their own kids to talk to. Poor fuckers.