Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-mindcon

[TimScrivener]

Then feel free to dismiss my opinion.  That's all it is and I was upfront about not having personal knowledge of Roloff's.  Thank god.  I'd rather have been abused and brainwashed by the sadists at Straight than the religious zealots at Roloff's.

Wow. This is interesting. First you say you have no personal knowledge of Roloff's then you parrot the stories told here as if they are absolutely proven facts.

[TimScrivener]

This pompous ass has been all over the Yahoo groups regarding Roloff Homes....and he IS a pompous ass.  Here is what I know about you Tim....you sat in the groups and publicly apologized for the abuse that occurred at that damned farm of abuse and mind control.  Then because no one wanted to give you fuel for this damned video you are making you change your stance.  You went back and forth like a fucking yo-yo.  Here is what else I found....I found you started your own group which now has 2 members....you and you.  You have 3 messages posted to you.  You also have 2 Facebook accounts on which you have used one to leave comments on your other one.  WTF?  You are not only a brainwashed roloff sheep....your a lil bit manic and crazy from where I stand.  Take your fucking research elsewhere....you can't even give a good definition of what brainwashing is.  You are one pompous ass and now that you can't get anyone to discuss this with you on Yahoo you come crawling back to Fornits.  Your own church folks haven't even joined your group.  You are a sad excuse of a person to go from site to site to try and convince people they are not remembering things correctly.  And I will state one more time for you.....hundreds of identical testimonies from folks who have never crossed paths, from different decades on the farm, from different homes on the farm is NOT a collective lie.  By the way....your a pompous ass.

I public apologized for disregarding all the claims of abuse as lies. I don't remember ever apologizing for any abuse. I may be wrong, I'm no longer a member of that group, a decision I made myself. I started my own group so I could give people of both persuasions a chance to give their side of it, since every time I even questioned some of the things I found on that group, I was called a pompous ass and other names I can't even repeat.

I use two different yahoo accounts for a simple reason. I have two computers and I can't access my main account on my newest one because I forgot my password and security question. I will probably end up having to ditch my original account. But thanks for assuming the worse about me even when I at least gave you the benefit of the doubt and gave you an opportunity to clarify your account of the story you told there. Which you could  not. I still haven't just come out and called you a bald faced liar even though none of your story is consistent with the truth.

As far as my two facebook accounts go, I have a unique sense of humor and I express it in a unique way. If that makes me manic and crazy, well, it wouldn't be the first time someone told me I'm crazy.

As far as identical testimonies, yes, many people say the same thing. Brainwashing to all of them includes memorizing Bible verses, listening to Bible preaching, being told what they can and can't wear, being unable to communicate with members of the opposite sex, having their mail and phone calls monitored. All of that is true and none of it is brainwashing.

As for the accusation on your part of me being pompous that's your opinion. It seems that it's you that is so self important that you have to start personal attacks on people you don't know just because they don't agree with you, or accept your word as Gospel about everything you say about Lester Roloff. The fact is, I expose your inaccuracy and now you hate me for that.

[TimScrivener]

The reason my apology has not been cut and pasted from the yahoo group by soozy or whatever is because she would be exposed again for her account being not quite accurate. I'm waiting for it to be posted here, I would have posted it myself but I dropped out of the group because I couldn't post anything there without being personally attacked. I'm not afraid of having my apology posted here. While I can't remember word for word I do remember admitting that things were done while I was in the homes that I think shouldn't have happened. This is the exception to the rule. I've had over 20 years experience at the People's Baptist Church and I know that there have been people on staff and helpers in the homes that shouldn't have been in charge of anything. I also know that thousands of people have gotten help there. For me to say that there has never been abuse in any of the homes at any time would not be honest. Likewise, for me to say there is always abuse, that it's a part of the programs, would not be honest either.

I am sorry that people were treated in an unChristlike manner at times at the homes. I am not convinced that all the accounts of abuse are accurate or true. I believe that most of them are just exaggerated by people that were bitter and angry at the parents for putting them in the homes and bitter and angry at the homes for keeping them there against their will. Every negative experience that they had there is just magnified because of this. The fact is many people who didn't want to be there actually got help because they turned their lives over to Christ.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theroloffhomesnow/  anyone is welcomed to post as long as you do so in a manner consistent with the rules of the group.

[TimScrivener]

Want proof jackass?  They made me sign a bogus agreement stating I reliquished all my rights as an adult when I went into that hell hole called roloffs.  That isn't even legal.  Then they convinced me I had to stay there or my child would turn against me.  By the way, they also had all my money.  Oh and then they isolated me from everyone I knew and first and foremost my family.  I was there....were you?  I'll drink the fornits kool-aid anyday rather than even look at the poisoned crap they served up at the farm.

Please feel free to provide a copy of this bogus agreement you signed. And who was it sooz, that forced you to sign anything? If you were an adult, you had the choice not to sign anything or to not go into the program. And if you did sign this bogus agreement, you certainly weren't legal bound by it. As an adult, you could leave whenever you wanted. Did they hold you there against your will?  They convinced you? Maybe they helped you understand your situation and you agreed with their assessment. Why did you agree to even go check out the homes to begin with? Seems like there was problems in your life you knew you need to address, and it was serious enough for you to consider going into the program.

The fact that they held all your money, is that abuse? When I was in the Homes, they kept all my money too. And I was able to use it to buy the stuff I needed, it was in an account. When I got out, I received what was left over.

They isolated you because you were in the homes and your family was not. That's kinda the idea isn't it. I was very far away from my home, but I got to write my family letters. Those letters were read by the staff, most of them were sent without them coming to me and explaining why I couldn't write something. If I had wanted to, I could have conveyed a message of "get me the heck out of here" at any time by saying something that the staff would not know wasn't true in my past to tip off my family. Or, I could have just told the staff, I don't want to be in the program any more and walked out because I was over 19 and I could leave if I wanted.

[Anne Bonney]

Then feel free to dismiss my opinion.  That's all it is and I was upfront about not having personal knowledge of Roloff's.  Thank god.  I'd rather have been abused and brainwashed by the sadists at Straight than the religious zealots at Roloff's.

Wow. This is interesting. First you say you have no personal knowledge of Roloff's then you parrot the stories told here as if they are absolutely proven facts.

BINGO!!!!   DING DING DING!!!!    We have a winner!!


Because they all use pretty much the same confrontational approach.  The same isolation from the real world.  Isolation from family.  Groupthink. etc.


Finally, they're getting it!!!!

[Whooter]

Then feel free to dismiss my opinion.  That's all it is and I was upfront about not having personal knowledge of Roloff's.  Thank god.  I'd rather have been abused and brainwashed by the sadists at Straight than the religious zealots at Roloff's.

Wow. This is interesting. First you say you have no personal knowledge of Roloff's then you parrot the stories told here as if they are absolutely proven facts.

BINGO!!!!   DING DING DING!!!!    We have a winner!!


Because they all use pretty much the same confrontational approach.  The same isolation from the real world.  Isolation from family.  Groupthink. etc.


Finally, they're getting it!!!!

[Citation]

Any type of study that you can refer to that supports this?



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[Anne Bonney]

Any type of study that you can refer to that supports this?



...

Sure....just as soon as you cite your source for where I said that I exaggerated the abuse that I suffered at Straight and that programs actually do help people.

And as soon as you cite the "study" you referred to...

Whooter wrote: The recent independent study which was overseen by a third (independent oversight organization) which upholds the conclusions from those internal studies you have been turning your nose up at all these years.

[Whooter]

Any type of study that you can refer to that supports this?



...

Sure....just as soon as you cite your source for where I said that I exaggerated the abuse that I suffered at Straight and that programs actually do help people.

And as soon as you cite the "study" you referred to...

Whooter wrote: The recent independent study which was overseen by a third (independent oversight organization) which upholds the conclusions from those internal studies you have been turning your nose up at all these years.

Ha,Ha,Ha  See we knew you made it up Anne, just checking.  The study I have posted several times this month and I will put it up again, give me a few minutes.  The other link you know I am holding off on until you provide proof that I support all programs.  You tried with the JRC link and that failed because everyone reading knows I posted several times that I had not made up my mind on that process yet.



...



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[Anne Bonney]

Any type of study that you can refer to that supports this?



...

Sure....just as soon as you cite your source for where I said that I exaggerated the abuse that I suffered at Straight and that programs actually do help people.

And as soon as you cite the "study" you referred to...

Whooter wrote: The recent independent study which was overseen by a third (independent oversight organization) which upholds the conclusions from those internal studies you have been turning your nose up at all these years.

Ha,Ha,Ha  See we knew you made it up Anne, just checking.  The study I have posted several times this month and I will put it up again, give me a few minutes.  The other link you know I am holding off on until you provide proof that I support all programs.  You tried with the JRC link and that failed because everyone reading knows I posted several times that I had not made up my mind on that process yet.

Ah...pussying out again huh?  Ah well, par for the course.

[Whooter]

Sorry to burst your bubble Anne... Read it and weep:

The following Study was presented at  the Annual Convention of the
American Psychological Association at New Orleans, Louisiana, August, 2006 .

The study covered about 1,000 kids who graduated from programs and parents of the kids.

There was an independent Board which approved the research and audited the study for any conflicts of interest.

Link to Study


So now are you ready to accept that you have stated :  Programs help the majority of kids and that you embellished your own story here on fornits at times just to win an argument?

You know you cant win if you challenge me to provide the link.

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[Anne Bonney]

Sorry to burst your bubble Anne... Read it and weep:

The following Study was presented at  the Annual Convention of the
American Psychological Association at New Orleans, Louisiana, August, 2006 .

The study covered about 1,000 kids who graduated from programs and parents of the kids.

There was an independent Board which approved the research and audited the study for any conflicts of interest.

Link to Study


So now are you ready to accept that you have stated in the past that Programs help the majority of kids and that you embellished your own story here on fornits at times just to win an argument?

You know you cant win if you challenge me to provide the link.

...

Well, off the top of my head (I've only read to page 3 so far).....it says that it was conducted between 2003 - 2005 and was presented in August of 2006.  Does not a longitudinal study make, which is a major point that we've been trying to get through your head for a few years now.  

But nice try.  I'll get back to you after I've read it all the way through.      :seg:

[Whooter]

….Does not a longitudinal study make, which is a major point that we've been trying to get through your head for a few years now.

A few years ago we would hear:   “We want proof, show us that programs work”.  So various posters provided them with first hand accounts of kids who did well and were set back on a healthy path.

Then they said:  ”Well, first hand accounts don't mean squat, the kids could have been brainwashed, we want to see studies”.  So we provided them with studies which showed 60 - 80% of the kids succeed in programs and they said “Ha,Ha they are not accurate!!  You call that a study?  Ppsssfftt…They are merely internal studies.  They could have just made that stuff up!”

Then we provided external studies which showed programs to be better than 80% effective and they said:  “The studies are no good!!  One of the people on the studies use to work in the Troubled Teen industry!!!”  Ha,Ha  “The entire effort is negated.”

So we provided them with Independent studies which show programs to be 80% effective in getting kids placed back on a healthy path with third party oversight to insure there were no conflict of interests.   They said:  "Well…well…. Ooommm…..we want long term clinical trials!!!... yeah that’s it Clinical Trials which cover 5 years out.  We don’t believe your studies we want clinical trials!”  

Lol.
Sorry, anne, I dont really mean to rub it in, but in all fairness it is good to keep pushing for more and better controlled studies.  I think we can all agree that the more studies that are done the better everyone will feel that the information is accurate and feel more confident  about sending our kids to these places.



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[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Ursus]

….Does not a longitudinal study make, which is a major point that we've been trying to get through your head for a few years now.

A few years ago we would hear:   "We want proof, show us that programs work".  So various posters provided them with first hand accounts of kids who did well and were set back on a healthy path.

Then they said:  "Well, first hand accounts don't mean squat, the kids could have been brainwashed, we want to see studies".  So we provided them with studies which showed 60 - 80% of the kids succeed in programs and they said "Ha,Ha they are not accurate!!  You call that a study?  Ppsssfftt…They are merely internal studies.  They could have just made that stuff up!"

Then we provided external studies which showed programs to be better than 80% effective and they said:  "The studies are no good!!  One of the people on the studies use to work in the Troubled Teen industry!!!"  Ha,Ha  "The entire effort is negated."

So we provided them with Independent studies which show programs to be 80% effective in getting kids placed back on a healthy path with third party oversight to insure there were no conflict of interests.   They said:  "Well…well…. Ooommm…..we want long term clinical trials!!!... yeah that's it Clinical Trials which cover 5 years out.  We don't believe your studies we want clinical trials!"  

Lol.
Sorry, anne, I dont really mean to rub it in, but in all fairness it is good to keep pushing for more and better controlled studies.  I think we can all agree that the more studies that are done the better everyone will feel that the information is accurate and feel more confident  about sending our kids to these places.

Wait a minute...

This study was performed on kids from nine Aspen programs, and the primary author is Ellen Behrens. Conflict of interest perchance? Moreover, these programs are not inherently different from one another to any significant degree.

There were two time points: at admission, and at discharge. In other words, the kids are basically still under the influence of the program.

The study consisted of a survey filled out by both kids and their parents. Some examples of discharge questions are "How do you feel about your experience at this program?" and "Compared to when you began the program, how would you describe your problems?"

There was no control group. There was no independent professional assessment of parent and adolescent self-reports (e.g., by a psych professional not affiliated with the program).

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010