Author Topic: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-mindcon  (Read 391533 times)

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Offline Ursus

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Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
« Reply #1155 on: June 16, 2010, 07:43:41 PM »
Quote from: "Joel"
This is a new thread to post and debate TTI studies.  Thanks for you time and cooperation.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30684
Joel, I've cross-posted the above four posts (excluding yours which I here quote, and the one immediately previous) in said Troubled Teen Industry Studies thread:

    LINK to discussion of "Multi-Center Study of Youth Outcomes" (Behrens, 2006)[/list]
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    Offline Meridell

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1156 on: June 16, 2010, 10:38:45 PM »
    So go use your new thread for that and leave us alone.  What a lack of consideration and respect.  Shoo now and leave us alone.
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    Offline TimScrivener

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1157 on: June 18, 2010, 02:22:57 PM »
    Quote from: "curioussooz"
    Since Tim does not seem to care if this is posted here.......

      I'm truly sorry.
    Posted by: "timscriv4god" no_reply@yahoogroups.com   timscriv4god
    Thu Jun 3, 2010 12:32 pm (PDT)


    For many years I have heard about the troubled kids that ran away and told lies about the homes just so they would not have to go back. I worked in a home in Missouri for awhile and that actually happened so I believed it was true in these cases as well. There was no abuse there because I lived there in the dorm itself. I knew what went on and I heard what was said about what went on and it was a lie. That was Calvary's Rest.

    I wanted to believe that at the worse, most of the so called abuse was just exaggerated. But no, I wasn't in those dorms for the younger kids. I did see things happen in the Anchor home but I just believed it to be one staff member. I was appalled when the man slapped another man who was also on staff in the face. I reported that to someone and then forgot about it.

    I have held on the the fact that I heard the Word of God and received help, met a lot of good people, made some good friends. That's the way I want to think of the Roloff homes. That's why I stayed to work there. I wanted to serve God full time and give back to the ministry that helped me. I went on tours with the Lighthouse choir. I thought I was doing a good thing. I came back later and worked on the farm again. I have a lot of good memories, I didn't want to remember the bad. For me it was testing of the Lord, I looked at everything that happen as God trying to show me something.

    Yet, I have held these doubts inside, and I can say that even in the Lighthouse, when I was there, I saw things. Again, I thought it was just one staff member. In fact, the Superintendent got very upset with this guy several times, yet he remained in the position. I don't know why I covered this up even to myself. Perhaps this is the same thing that many other well intentioned staff did.

    Over the years, I saw the ministries diminish and shrink, until now it's just barely there. Everyone that was involved in the bad stuff is gone, and now we have people that have a desire to help. But, it seems that it's not enough. Worse of all, it has become so clear to me now that what should happen is true acknowledgment of the sins of the past and repentance. Perhaps that's why God led me here. To show me these things.

    So sorry to all of you for assuming that what you were saying here was either a lie or an exaggeration. Only when we understand and see the depth of the darkness and sinfulness or our actions can we do what needs to be done to make things right. I only hope I can do something to make things right.

    I haven't changed my mind about this. I just don't believe every account that I read. Some of the things said on these type of forums are lies. Let me clarify my stance once and for all.

    I believe there were instances of abuse. The official policies of the Homes do not now, nor ever have, promoted abuse. Those who partook in this abuse were doing so against the policies of the People's Baptist Church. The things that I saw done that I would consider abuse were done by people who were either still in the program, or had gone through the program and stayed on to work there. They did these things without the knowledge or consent of those authority over the Homes. That was my experience.

    I also will dispute that many of the things mentioned here are abuse. Some have complained about dress codes and the food as if that were abuse. The Bible memorization and the preaching they had to listen to are neither abuse or brainwashing. Having to obey the rules is not abuse or brainwashing. Paddling is not abuse. It can be done in an abusive way, but to say that every instance of paddling is abuse is not honest.

    There is no corporal punishment being administered in any of the homes in Corpus Christi Texas. I can't speak for any other homes. There are no homes anywhere else that are under the authority of the People's Baptist Church.
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    Offline TimScrivener

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    Offline jaredsmom

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    To Tim Scrivener
    « Reply #1159 on: June 21, 2010, 12:48:36 PM »
    Tim,
    I've thought for a long time on how to address you.  I asked you a question on the yahoo group, but by then you were angry at all those in the group and you refused to reply.  I won't ask the question again, I'll just leave you with my perspective.  My perspective on you, Tim, not the homes.
    Why you decided it was your job to step up and defend the program is unclear to me.  Yet, you felt the urge to do so.  Your method was to find posts made here and call the authors of the posts liars.  You offered semantic evidence of why the posts could not be true, not stopping to consider that things may be different now than when the author of the post was there.  You speak to us as if you are the know-all and see-all of the Roloff homes.  In doing so, you became that which we have been conditioned to abhor.  
    It's like this, Tim:  We gain NOTHING in telling our stories here.   We hope some parent may see it and maybe change their minds about sending someone, but seriously...when does someone really come in here for that?  We tell our stories because something motivated us to run a search about the homes, and we stumbled here.  We read the stories and we felt some sort of validation.  So we shared our experience too.  Yes, we all define abuse differently, I will give you that much.  I am one of the first to admit my stay there was not as bad as others.  Still, I can recount three episodes that I would (and a court would probably agree) define as abuse to me.  However, I'm not a scarred person because of those instances.  There are people here, though, that went through so much worse than what I went.  I know it happened.  I saw it.  I heard the accounts.  These people were called "rebellious" and chastised because they wouldn't conform to the program, so they were abused.  Not spanked, as I don't consider that abuse.  Spanking, or "licks", as we called them, was a common occurrence.  So common that it wouldn't phase us anymore.  So abusive methods of punishment were developed.  Then there are other horrors: teenage mothers told that the only hope for their babies was to give them up.  What you can't understand, Tim, was that we didn't know other options.  In our young minds, we were being told by our mentors the "right" thing to do.  Even if everything in our hearts was telling us that it wasn't the right thing, we followed.  We followed because to not do so brought on unpleasant consequences.  Our actions were motivated by fear.  It was to the points that our own thoughts would frighten us sometimes.  Like if we thought of a rock song, because someone said something that reminded us of it, we felt we were doing something wrong.  
    Then, upon leaving the homes, we were allowed no more contact with each other.  Addresses and phone numbers were taken away from us.  I remember finding some letters in the trash while taking the trash out one Saturday.  They had been sent to some girls in there by a former student.  We weren't allowed to write to anyone besides our pastor and parents, but we were allowed to receive mail, if it met censorship guidelines.  (Yes, all our mail was read before coming in or going out.)  But a former student couldn't write a student still in the program.  I read the letters, with the intention of telling the intended recipients what was said.  There was nothing wrong with what she was saying, so I still don't understand why they didn't allow the recipient to get it.  I was caught reading one and quickly reprimanded.  Why the fear of us talking to each other after the program?  My theory is because once out, we could objectively review our experiences and that was a threat to the "ministry".  So when we found these boards, you can't imagine the relief we felt to see that our reinsertion into society (which was very difficult) was a similar experience to others.  The knowledge that I wasn't alone in my confusion and anger over the homes.  If you go back, you may find my posts...angry, accusing.  Then you can see the fights that inevitably break out in these boards, and I eventually left for a long time because of those.  Then I healed.  I healed through these boards, through the groups.  It became such a small part of my life, but I had to HEAL.  Because of it, I can't get as angry as others that are still going through the healing process.  Yet I understand their reaction to you.  You undermined their experience.  You called them liars.  You had no agenda, other than to bring them down again.  In the name of what, Tim?  Of God?  Of Roloff Enterprises?  They don't need you to be their lawyer.  If the program helps people, and I am not going to say no one has been helped, then the results speak for themselves.  You don't have to feel the need to defend them.  Start your own site promoting the good and allow former students to do the same.  But let those who feel differently express themselves as well.  It's their story, and you are not the one who should tell it.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

    Offline Anne Bonney

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1160 on: June 21, 2010, 02:11:39 PM »
    :nods:  :nods:  :nods:
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    traight, St. Pete, early 80s
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    Offline DannyB II

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    Re: To Tim Scrivener
    « Reply #1161 on: June 21, 2010, 09:01:23 PM »
    Quote from: "jaredsmom"
    Tim,
    I've thought for a long time on how to address you.  I asked you a question on the yahoo group, but by then you were angry at all those in the group and you refused to reply.  I won't ask the question again, I'll just leave you with my perspective.  My perspective on you, Tim, not the homes.
    Why you decided it was your job to step up and defend the program is unclear to me.  Yet, you felt the urge to do so.  Your method was to find posts made here and call the authors of the posts liars.  You offered semantic evidence of why the posts could not be true, not stopping to consider that things may be different now than when the author of the post was there.  You speak to us as if you are the know-all and see-all of the Roloff homes.  In doing so, you became that which we have been conditioned to abhor.  
    It's like this, Tim:  We gain NOTHING in telling our stories here.   We hope some parent may see it and maybe change their minds about sending someone, but seriously...when does someone really come in here for that?  We tell our stories because something motivated us to run a search about the homes, and we stumbled here.  We read the stories and we felt some sort of validation.  So we shared our experience too.  Yes, we all define abuse differently, I will give you that much.  I am one of the first to admit my stay there was not as bad as others.  Still, I can recount three episodes that I would (and a court would probably agree) define as abuse to me.  However, I'm not a scarred person because of those instances.  There are people here, though, that went through so much worse than what I went.  I know it happened.  I saw it.  I heard the accounts.  These people were called "rebellious" and chastised because they wouldn't conform to the program, so they were abused.  Not spanked, as I don't consider that abuse.  Spanking, or "licks", as we called them, was a common occurrence.  So common that it wouldn't phase us anymore.  So abusive methods of punishment were developed.  Then there are other horrors: teenage mothers told that the only hope for their babies was to give them up.  What you can't understand, Tim, was that we didn't know other options.  In our young minds, we were being told by our mentors the "right" thing to do.  Even if everything in our hearts was telling us that it wasn't the right thing, we followed.  We followed because to not do so brought on unpleasant consequences.  Our actions were motivated by fear.  It was to the points that our own thoughts would frighten us sometimes.  Like if we thought of a rock song, because someone said something that reminded us of it, we felt we were doing something wrong.  
    Then, upon leaving the homes, we were allowed no more contact with each other.  Addresses and phone numbers were taken away from us.  I remember finding some letters in the trash while taking the trash out one Saturday.  They had been sent to some girls in there by a former student.  We weren't allowed to write to anyone besides our pastor and parents, but we were allowed to receive mail, if it met censorship guidelines.  (Yes, all our mail was read before coming in or going out.)  But a former student couldn't write a student still in the program.  I read the letters, with the intention of telling the intended recipients what was said.  There was nothing wrong with what she was saying, so I still don't understand why they didn't allow the recipient to get it.  I was caught reading one and quickly reprimanded.  Why the fear of us talking to each other after the program?  My theory is because once out, we could objectively review our experiences and that was a threat to the "ministry".  So when we found these boards, you can't imagine the relief we felt to see that our reinsertion into society (which was very difficult) was a similar experience to others.  The knowledge that I wasn't alone in my confusion and anger over the homes.  If you go back, you may find my posts...angry, accusing.  Then you can see the fights that inevitably break out in these boards, and I eventually left for a long time because of those.  Then I healed.  I healed through these boards, through the groups.  It became such a small part of my life, but I had to HEAL.  Because of it, I can't get as angry as others that are still going through the healing process.  Yet I understand their reaction to you.  You undermined their experience.  You called them liars.  You had no agenda, other than to bring them down again.  In the name of what, Tim?  Of God?  Of Roloff Enterprises?  They don't need you to be their lawyer.  If the program helps people, and I am not going to say no one has been helped, then the results speak for themselves.  You don't have to feel the need to defend them.  Start your own site promoting the good and allow former students to do the same.  But let those who feel differently express themselves as well.  It's their story, and you are not the one who should tell it.


    Now if you can harness all this energy and do a back flip and turn it around and tell everyone here on fornits the exact same thing your telling Tim but in reverse.
    Yes please do because y'all feel you can tell anyone who has had a positive experience that they have not, they are lying, brainwashed.
    Your words "jaredsmom",  "But let those who feel differently express themselves as well.  It's their story, and you are not the one who should tell it".
    Y'all should practice what you preach.
    Tim hang in their buddy and find your way.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    Stand and fight, till there is no more.

    Offline Paul St. John

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1162 on: June 21, 2010, 09:12:12 PM »
    Tim is a dick.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

    Offline DannyB II

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1163 on: June 21, 2010, 09:53:41 PM »
    Quote from: "Paul St. John"
    Tim is a dick.

    Well said Paul, how ya feel now. Splendid I'm thinking.
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    Offline Paul St. John

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1164 on: June 21, 2010, 09:55:33 PM »
    pretty good...  pretty good..

    Thanks for asking.. and you?

    Paul
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    Offline Paul St. John

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1165 on: June 21, 2010, 10:54:20 PM »
    Is this where I was pretending to be stupid Danny?
    Is this what you were talking about?

    I was joking Danny...  I was being a wise ass.  I thought you would know that.  I feel just fine, about calling that guy a dick, cause he is a dick.  It's not my fault he's a dick.  I didn t make him a dick.  I am just letting it be known that he is dick.  I feel good about calling him dick.  I think people should know that he is a dick, so they do not take him seriously. He can stop being a dick at any time.. That is on him.

    Paul
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    Offline Ursus

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1166 on: June 21, 2010, 11:53:41 PM »
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Now if you can harness all this energy and do a back flip and turn it around and tell everyone here on fornits the exact same thing your telling Tim but in reverse.
    Yes please do because y'all feel you can tell anyone who has had a positive experience that they have not, they are lying, brainwashed.
    Your words "jaredsmom", "But let those who feel differently express themselves as well. It's their story, and you are not the one who should tell it".
    Y'all should practice what you preach.
    Tim hang in their buddy and find your way.
    Ya know Danny, perhaps you didn't read jaredsmom's post carefully enough. I was unable to find her saying that "anyone who has had a positive experience that they have not, they are lying, brainwashed."

    In fact, she very specifically stated, "If the program helps people, and I am not going to say no one has been helped, then the results speak for themselves."

    Although I can't really speak for jaredsmom, what she does seem to object to in her post ... is Tim's accusations that everyone who speaks negatively of certain elements of their time at Roloff's ... is lying, brainwashing, etc.

    A bit of a difference, doncha think?
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    Offline jaredsmom

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1167 on: June 22, 2010, 09:53:18 AM »
    Thank you, Ursus.  that was the point I was trying to make.

    Now, Danny, you say:
    Quote
    Now if you can harness all this energy and do a back flip and turn it around and tell everyone here on fornits the exact same thing your telling Tim but in reverse.
    I would have never harnessed any energy whatsoever, except Tim didn't limit his experience to this board.  I see you have 992 comments since you became a member on March 10th of this year.  That's an average of 10.55 comments per day, in different forums.  I think not only are you using way too much energy in here,  you also have little to do outside.  Go on a date, read a book, walk your dog.  In other words, enjoy life.

    Quote
    Yes please do because y'all feel you can tell anyone who has had a positive experience that they have not, they are lying, brainwashed.

    Y'all is Southern slang for "you all" which indicates plural.  I am one person.  If you feel I'm part of a collective, I am not.  I did not say you were lying or brainwashed.  In fact, I am glad that the programs do actually help some people.  Not everyone deserved to be sent, but if you were one of them and got the help you needed, then I'm very happy for you.
    Quote
    Tim hang in their buddy and find your way.
    This part just gives me warm fuzzies.  Tim and Danny bonding over feeling like the underdogs on Fornits.  Because you don't just want to get the positive message out, but you want to fight the "evil liars" until they repent and tell the truth.  Or maybe you just want to have the last word.  Perhaps you are just bored and like a good argument.  Either way, It warms me to see that this is what you are like after becoming much better people because of your experiences.  I like to think I became a better person because of the choices I've made in my life.  That's just me.  I don't want to give a one-year program too much credit for the other 30+ years of my life.  Call me selfish.
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    Offline Anne Bonney

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1168 on: June 22, 2010, 01:09:49 PM »
    Quote from: "jaredsmom"
    This part just gives me warm fuzzies.  Tim and Danny bonding over feeling like the underdogs on Fornits.  Because you don't just want to get the positive message out, but you want to fight the "evil liars" until they repent and tell the truth.  Or maybe you just want to have the last word.  Perhaps you are just bored and like a good argument.  Either way, It warms me to see that this is what you are like after becoming much better people because of your experiences.  I like to think I became a better person because of the choices I've made in my life.  That's just me.  I don't want to give a one-year program too much credit for the other 30+ years of my life.  Call me selfish.


    Jaredsmom....pay DannyBoy no mind.  He clings on to anyone, as long as it's against survivors.  He's an attention whore who has some kind of inferiority complex regarding the fairer sex and tends to lash out at us.  

    And I'd love to see Tim come back and address your post on the previous page....point by abusive point.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
    traight, St. Pete, early 80s
    AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

    The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

    Offline DannyB II

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    Re: Lester Roloffs Rebekah Home for Girls Survivors-Cult-min
    « Reply #1169 on: June 22, 2010, 02:58:32 PM »
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Now if you can harness all this energy and do a back flip and turn it around and tell everyone here on fornits the exact same thing your telling Tim but in reverse.
    Yes please do because y'all feel you can tell anyone who has had a positive experience that they have not, they are lying, brainwashed.
    Your words "jaredsmom", "But let those who feel differently express themselves as well. It's their story, and you are not the one who should tell it".
    Y'all should practice what you preach.
    Tim hang in their buddy and find your way.
    Ya know Danny, perhaps you didn't read jaredsmom's post carefully enough. I was unable to find her saying that "anyone who has had a positive experience that they have not, they are lying, brainwashed."

    In fact, she very specifically stated, "If the program helps people, and I am not going to say no one has been helped, then the results speak for themselves."

    Although I can't really speak for jaredsmom, what she does seem to object to in her post ... is Tim's accusations that everyone who speaks negatively of certain elements of their time at Roloff's ... is lying, brainwashing, etc.

    A bit of a difference, doncha think?

    No I don't find any difference in her post then 99.99% of every other post here, she just dressed hers up with a personal testimony of sorts. Which BTW was pretty good, nice perspectives.    

    "If the program helps people, and I am not going to say no one has been helped, then the results speak for themselves."
    Jeesh don't kill yourself bending over backwards to find something in her post to validate your opinion, Ursus.....lol.

    "This part just gives me warm fuzzies. Tim and Danny bonding over feeling like the underdogs on Fornits. Because you don't just want to get the positive message out, but you want to fight the "evil liars" until they repent and tell the truth. Or maybe you just want to have the last word. Perhaps you are just bored and like a good argument. Either way, It warms me to see that this is what you are like after becoming much better people because of your experiences. I like to think I became a better person because of the choices I've made in my life. That's just me. I don't want to give a one-year program too much credit for the other 30+ years of my life. Call me selfish."
     
    This paragraph speaks volumes, well y'all like I said,
    "Now if you can harness all this energy and do a back flip and turn it around and tell everyone here on fornits the exact same thing your telling Tim but in reverse".
    « Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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