Comparisons which dont involve death counts

[Troll Control]

This is what makes schools improve themselves and make it better for the next group of kids.

This just isn't true.  Invariably, and the public record supports this, these places will shut down, move, change their name and open an entirely new facility where regulations do not exist before they will "improve themselves" for "the kids."

TheWho's notion just isn't supported by facts.

[TheWho]

This is what makes schools improve themselves and make it better for the next group of kids.

This just isn't true.  Invariably, and the public record supports this, these places will shut down, move, change their name and open an entirely new facility where regulations do not exist before they will "improve themselves" for "the kids."

TheWho's notion just isn't supported by facts.

I have seen it happen first hand.  I am sure , DJ, there are some who wouldn?t want to adhere, but I dont think that is the norm.  They all have the kids best interest at heart, but sometimes deficiencies need to be brought forward to get their attention.  Either way this can only result in improvements and make it better for the kids.  
Oversight is good for us parents and the kids, but it is a pain in the butt for the ones having to adhere to all the rules and regs and unless someones insists (like the state) it isnt going to happen, I assure you.

[Troll Control]

They all have the kids best interest at heart

I know first-hand that this is wildly inaccurate.  Who, why would you make an absolutist statement like this when you know you have no way to support it, not to mention that you don't know any of the people running programs except at ASR, where you showered praise upon a child abusing, drunk driving manslaughterer, Rudy Bentz?  Your perception of the state of affairs in this industry is pure fantasy.  You've never had inside access to any facility as a prisoner or employee, so you really just don't know what you're talking about - you only know the brochures.

[Troll Control]

I have seen it happen first hand

I wish I could take your word for it.  Unfortunately, due to all of your past fabricating, I can't take anything you say seriously or put any weight on it.  For me (or almost anyone else reading for that matter) you virtually would have to provide third-party authenticated video and signed affadavits from witnesses before I could lend you any credibility - you've just scored too many ground-zero credibility hits on yourself at this point to be believed.

[TheWho]

I have seen it happen first hand

I wish I could take your word for it.  Unfortunately, due to all of your past fabricating, I can't take anything you say seriously or put any weight on it.  For me (or almost anyone else reading for that matter) you virtually would have to provide third-party authenticated video and signed affadavits from witnesses before I could lend you any credibility - you've just scored too many ground-zero credibility hits on yourself at this point to be believed.

All we have is how reliable we are and it goes both ways, I would need the same from you....  it is unfortunate, though.

[Troll Control]

Well, there is an important distinction to be made here:  You have been caught lying over and again, changing your posts post facto to try to win arguments and relentlessly trolling while anonymous.

See, that's the difference.  You have no personal credibilty because of your own behavior and you have no academic or professional credibility because you have no understanding of the subject matter.  It's the double-whammy to your believablity - you have none.

[Deborah]

According to their website, they are issuing diplomas:

Human Ecology, the course of emotional growth work that all students follow, also carries academic credit. 26 credits are required for a student to earn a high school diploma from ASR, and must include four years of English; three years each of Mathematics (through Algebra 2), Laboratory Science, and Social Sciences (including U.S. History).

The School operates under the approval of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Department of Education through the Mohawk Trails Regional School District, and is a candidate for accreditation through the New England Association of Schools and Colleges.

 

What does "through the Mohawk Trails Regional SD" mean? HLA only had to report the number of kids they had enrolled on a quarterly basis. If that is what this consists of, ASR is being deceptive with this statement.
Mass requirements are inconsequential if the program is accredited through NEASC. Anyone willing to research NEASC's requirements and compile a list of things they should know when considering ASR's accreditation?

The Academic Program at the Academy at Swift River presents a challenging college preparatory high school curriculum to young men and women in grades 9 through 12.

Sounds fraudulent to me. Shouldn't they speak the truth as you did Who. Kids will get "some" education, but the focus in on our special brand of "treatment" for 16-19 months.

Nation's First Study of Private Residential Treatment Programs Shows: Teens Improve at Aspen Education Group
Why This May Be Important To You: Aspen?s residential programs provided more than just hope for these teens and their families. Teens who have not responded to other treatments improve during treatment at Aspen?s private residential treatment programs.

ASR, parents, and everyone in this discussion knows what ASR is. When it's to their advantage, they even admit it. They are an upscale RTC. The state of Mass is not protecting kids, just as Ga didn't in the case of HLA. They are sanctioned by law to determine the "services provided" and license a program if they are providing "treatment". The only reason ASR remains unlicensed and unmonitored by the state is because no one has taken the initiative to make this an issue. In the case of HLA, it took multiple attempts and appealing all the way to the Governor.

[RobertBruce]

I have seen it happen first hand.

You also claimed to have attended a secret meeting of fornits posters, you claimed to have spoken a captain who threw me off his ship, you claim to be in regular contact with multiple posters on fornits who believe in your drivel, you claimed there wasnt a problem with HLA not having a school nurse, and you claimed there were only 10,000 psychologist in the US.

Sorry Cindy, you have zero credibility.

I am sure , DJ, there are some who wouldn?t want to adhere, but I dont think that is the norm.

How would you know this?

They all have the kids best interest at heart

They all have the kids best interest at heart? All of them? Change that quickly Cindy, very quickly.

but sometimes deficiencies need to be brought forward to get their attention. Either way this can only result in improvements and make it better for the kids.

What if the school doesnt see the need to change an abusive policy?

Oversight is good for us parents and the kids, but it is a pain in the butt for the ones having to adhere to all the rules and regs and unless someones insists (like the state) it isnt going to happen, I assure you.

This contridicts your earlier comment, if the schools truly had the kids best interest at heart they would embrace the regulation and oversight. As it stands many of them avoid regulation like the plauge and claim they "self regulate".

[RobertBruce]

All we have is how reliable we are and it goes both ways, I would need the same from you.... it is unfortunate, though.

Here's the thing though, we can prove that youve lied on several occasions or refused to acknowledge when wrong despite how obvious it was.

You cannot do the same thing to Dysfunction or most of the anti-program posters on here.

Our credibility with parents is solid, yours is in the gutter. For that you have no one to blame but yourself.

[Troll Control]

Well, ASR is hitting what I call the "magical threshold."  It seems to me that these places get away with rampant fraud for about ten years until the weight of the evidence supports a state investigation.  

For anyone looking to shutter this place, this is the logical start-point:  Is it a school or a treatment center?

If they are calling themnselves a "school" then they must be accredited and must not provide casework or treatment planning.  It's obvious that ASR does both and therefore cannot be a "school."  

This is what took us over two years to prove to georgia ORS, but once the evidence was provided it was only a matter of days until HLA was ordered to get licensed to provide services, quit providing services or cease and desist completely.  

Same deal with AIR.  It is no longer called an "academy" - it's now called a "Behavior Modification Center" by New York State.

I'd go to the regulating agencies in Mass first and follow up with the Attorney General's office.  You'd be surprised at how swift (no pun intended) action will be taken once authorities are afforded the opportunity to review documents and interview employees/prisoners.  It happens quick.

[TheWho]

According to their website, they are issuing diplomas:

I thought I read it somewhere

What does "through the Mohawk Trails Regional SD" mean?

I believe that is the School District

Sounds fraudulent to me. Shouldn't they speak the truth as you did Who. Kids will get "some" education, but the focus in on our special brand of "treatment" for 16-19 months.

Sounds like they have beefed up there academics.  I had heard they built a new building, so they probably expanded.  All the kids that are perusing college do get in I believe.

[RobertBruce]

I thought I read it somewhere

How can they be handing out diplomas if they arent accredited? Under that rationale I could write out a PhD on a piece of toilet paper and start calling myself Dr. Bruce correct?

Sounds like they have beefed up there academics. I had heard they built a new building, so they probably expanded. All the kids that are perusing college do get in I believe.

A new building somehow means their academics are better? Have they hired licensed teachers? Are they accredited? Do the kids still have to earn a GED in order to get into college after getting a worthless diploma from this place?


........

Sorry Cindy, new buildings just dont cut it, all theyve apparently done is increased the space for more substandard education. They can build a football arena if they want to and have classes in that, it wont change a thing but bring in more suckers like yourself.

"Oh look Honey, they just painted the wall, you know that means this is a great place!"

Idiot.

[TheWho]

??.. but once the evidence was provided it was only a matter of days until HLA was ordered to get licensed to provide services, quit providing services or cease and desist completely.

Exactly what I have been saying all along.  The schools need to be forced into oversight, no one in their right mind is going to volunteer for it !!  just like we all need to be forced to get a drivers license, does it make us better drivers?maybe/maybe not, but the regulation is good for everyone.  The schools feel they are doing a great job and probably are but it takes an outside force to get oversight and in the end it is good for the kids!!!
This will make for a better school and give them one more thing to write on their shingle, it?s a win, win?.

[RobertBruce]

Exactly what I have been saying all along. The schools need to be forced into oversight, no one in their right mind is going to volunteer for it !! just like we all need to be forced to get a drivers license, does it make us better drivers?maybe/maybe not, but the regulation is good for everyone. The schools feel they are doing a great job and probably are but it takes an outside force to get oversight and in the end it is good for the kids!!!
This will make for a better school and give them one more thing to write on their shingle, it?s a win, win?.

Yet what you still dont get idiot is that this goes against what you and they are both saying. If the kids safety and best interest was really at the forefront of these places they would do this on their own. It wouldnt even be a question they would simply be forthright with the state from the get go and allow regulation and oversight because as you say, "It is good for the kids." Instead these places avoid regulation like the plauge, lie to the state, and search for any possible loop hole to avoid regulation. Why? Because they dont give a shit about the kids, its all about the money.

Thats what youre too stupid and too blind to understand.

One more thing.

I'm interested to see if you can base this on anything other than what you normally pull out of your ass.

The schools feel they are doing a great job and probably are

What qualifies you to make that assertion? What is it based on?

Looking forward to watching you evade things as per your cowardly custom.

[Deborah]

??.. but once the evidence was provided it was only a matter of days until HLA was ordered to get licensed to provide services, quit providing services or cease and desist completely.

Exactly what I have been saying all along.  The schools need to be forced into oversight, no one in their right mind is going to volunteer for it !!  just like we all need to be forced to get a drivers license, does it make us better drivers?maybe/maybe not, but the regulation is good for everyone.  The schools feel they are doing a great job and probably are but it takes an outside force to get oversight and in the end it is good for the kids!!!
This will make for a better school and give them one more thing to write on their shingle, it?s a win, win?.

Good, so you'll lead that movement, Who? How can they claim to care about the kids and avoid regulations that would prohibit certain aspects of their abusive "treatment"?
A friend of a friend lasted less than a week at Aspen's Stone Mountain School. He was very distressed by the "treatment" he witnessed. A seasoned staff justified it by saying that it was better that the kids have their Wills broken gently there than elsewhere.
Funny, we don't read anything about their will being broken in program literature. Guess that would just be too harsh for even the most angry and sadistic parent.