Inside the head of a shithead parent

[Anonymous]

No spin,  I am just looking at raw data at this point:

Here take a look again:
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:

July 1, 1999 thru June 2000  

Outside a TBS:
There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.

Then why not lock 'em all up?

[TheWho]

No spin,  I am just looking at raw data at this point:

Here take a look again:
So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data:

July 1, 1999 thru June 2000  

Outside a TBS:
There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides
Inside a TBS
There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.

Then why not lock 'em all up?

Thats the beauty of raw data.  It strikes different people different ways.  I do agree if we could reach more of these kids we would reduce these numbers, thru local services, school counseling others being removed from an unsafe environment etc..  But pulling them all out of school isn?t the answer, just like locking a kid up who is at risk for suicide won?t work either, which is evident in our penal system.  If a person is set on committing suicide they will find a way (Short of 24 hour suicide watch) The trick is to get that person counseling along with keeping them safe.
TBS's are not for everyone nor are they all equally effective.  The above data, although being only a snap shot, shows the TBS's have had no incidence of Homicide and lost 2 kids to suicide during the same period.  The suicide rate may translate into a higher than national average, but TBS's are also dealing with a group that is higher at risk in this area.
I would wait until we collected a couple of years to see if there is a trend and if any of the better schools start to float to the top, but the data does look encouraging.

[Anne Bonney]

The above data, although being only a snap shot, shows the TBS's have had no incidence of Homicide and lost 2 kids to suicide during the same period.

Just shut the fuck up. :roll:

[Troll Control]

The Who wrote:

"The suicide rate may translate into a higher than national average, but TBS's are also dealing with a group that is higher at risk in this area. "

How does your assertion dovetail with the fact that every single TBS has stated policy that they will not acept severely disturbed kids or those with suicidal ideation?

How can you possibly say that TBS kids are more at risk for suicide when admissions procedures specifically state that suicidal kids can not be admitted?  By definition, TBS's do not include suicidal kids.

God, you're a dense one, Who.  And either an intentional liar or just very, very dumb.  You decide which.

[Troll Control]

The Who wrote:

"The suicide rate may translate into a higher than national average, but TBS's are also dealing with a group that is higher at risk in this area. "

How does your assertion dovetail with the fact that every single TBS has stated policy that they will not acept severely disturbed kids or those with suicidal ideation?

How can you possibly say that TBS kids are more at risk for suicide when admissions procedures specifically state that suicidal kids can not be admitted?  By definition, TBS's do not include suicidal kids.

God, you're a dense one, Who.  And either an intentional liar or just very, very dumb.  You decide which.


***Attention Mods:  DB Write Error caused multiple postings.  Please delete posts previous to this one!  Thanks.

[TheWho]

The Who wrote:

"The suicide rate may translate into a higher than national average, but TBS's are also dealing with a group that is higher at risk in this area. "

How does your assertion dovetail with the fact that every single TBS has stated policy that they will not acept severely disturbed kids or those with suicidal ideation?

How can you possibly say that TBS kids are more at risk for suicide when admissions procedures specifically state that suicidal kids can not be admitted?  By definition, TBS's do not include suicidal kids.

God, you're a dense one, Who.  And either an intentional liar or just very, very dumb.  You decide which.

I am not saying that all the kids at TBS?s are suicidal.  I think you misunderstood  The kids are a select group, kids at risk, kids who are troubled, some may be suicidal but have not been diagnosed or properly screened, who knows.  But personally I would expect if you took a random cross section of kids from a public school and then compared them to a group in treatment you would see a higher incidence of suicide, kids hurting themselves etc. from the treatment group.

[Troll Control]

But personally I would expect if you took a random cross section of kids from a public school and then compared them to a group in treatment you would see a higher incidence of suicide, kids hurting themselves etc. from the treatment group.

Well, then we're back to square one: Why will the TBS/EG/BM industry not allow a scientific study of their population/efficacy after 30 years of a drumbeat of consistent requests to do so???[/b]

Before you atart making all kinds of excuses, let me point you to the answer:  They didn't work back then, they aren't working presently and they're never going to work in the future.[/b]

To allow a clinical study would be to destroy their livelihoods and they will never allow that to happen.

[TheWho]

But personally I would expect if you took a random cross section of kids from a public school and then compared them to a group in treatment you would see a higher incidence of suicide, kids hurting themselves etc. from the treatment group.

Well, then we're back to square one: Why will the TBS/EG/BM industry not allow a scientific study of their population/efficacy after 30 years of a drumbeat of consistent requests to do so???[/b]

Before you atart making all kinds of excuses, let me point you to the answer:  They didn't work back then, they aren't working presently and they're never going to work in the future.[/b]

To allow a clinical study would be to destroy their livelihoods and they will never allow that to happen.

I don?t have a specific answer to that, but I do know that the schools allow unbiased or independent people in to collect data, perform studies and stay on campus to write reviews books etc.  Its seems like they have an open door policy to me.  There could be many reasons why long term studies haven?t been done or completed.  Many kids may move on and don?t want to rehash that part of their life, just don?t respond, loose touch.  Etc.  

I don?t think we can assume it is because the data is bad or good

[Deborah]

I don?t have a specific answer to that, but I do know that the schools allow unbiased or independent people in to collect data, perform studies and stay on campus to write reviews books etc.  Its seems like they have an open door policy to me.  There could be many reasons why long term studies haven?t been done or completed.  Many kids may move on and don?t want to rehash that part of their life, just don?t respond, loose touch.  Etc. I don?t think we can assume it is because the data is bad or good

Which schools have allowed independent researcher in to collect data and perform studies?
Cite the independent researchers.

[TheWho]

I don?t have a specific answer to that, but I do know that the schools allow unbiased or independent people in to collect data, perform studies and stay on campus to write reviews books etc.  Its seems like they have an open door policy to me.  There could be many reasons why long term studies haven?t been done or completed.  Many kids may move on and don?t want to rehash that part of their life, just don?t respond, loose touch.  Etc. I don?t think we can assume it is because the data is bad or good

Which schools have allowed independent researcher in to collect data and perform studies?
Cite the independent researchers.

There was a woman from Colgate University (Valerie Shapiro, I believe) who came in to do a study at the Academy at Swift River which is a TBS, and subsequently wrote a paper on her findings.
There was a writer (who won the Pulitzer Prize) who stayed at ASR for over a year and wrote about one of the peer groups and the day to day activities of a TBS.

Both times ASR opened their doors to people wanting to review their model/school and how it worked and given full access.
There is 2 that I am aware of and that is at just one school.  There are probably more.

[Anonymous]

Thirty families agreed to participate in this extensive survey, making for a 24% response rate. Of these families, only 2 returned more than one parent questionnaire, and only 17 students returned their self-reports.

Here's the whole thing.

:lol:

Pathetic puff piece. What a fucking joke.

Despite these shortcomings, 100% of patients and their parents said that they would recommend treatment at ASR to others.

:rofl:

Oh man did they ever hoodwink her. 100% of the names they gave her were positive towards them. WHO'DA THUNK IT! :rofl:

[TheWho]

Thirty families agreed to participate in this extensive survey, making for a 24% response rate. Of these families, only 2 returned more than one parent questionnaire, and only 17 students returned their self-reports.

Here's the whole thing.

:lol:

Pathetic puff piece. What a fucking joke.

Despite these shortcomings, 100% of patients and their parents said that they would recommend treatment at ASR to others.

:rofl:

Oh man did they ever hoodwink her. 100% of the names they gave her were positive towards them. WHO'DA THUNK IT! :rofl:

Ms. Shapiro also went on to say:

My compliments go to the Academy at Swift River for having such successful program graduates as determined by the measures used in this study. Hopefully the center will be able to address some of the problem areas as indicated by the BASC scales, and will use my research as a starting point for many other outcome evaluations. These should include studies after longer follow up intervals, and a study to clarify whether family relations are in fact as good as the families report, or as problematic as the BASC implies. The implications of this research, however, extend well beyond the scope of ASR?s treatment program. I recommend that other residential treatment centers for adolescents also secure positive aftercare arrangements for their students and gradually allow students to test the values learned during treatment in the real world prior to a final discharge. My findings contradict the idea that making fundamental changes during late adolescence is nearly impossible (Loeber, 1991) and also dispel the myth that long-term treatment is detrimental to normal development. The most important finding of this study is that residential treatment for troubled adolescents has the potential to be extremely effective.

[RobertBruce]

Cindy why are you ignoring the 16 kids who lost their lives during that time period?


Don't they matter to you? Don't they count?

[TheWho]

Cindy why are you ignoring the 16 kids who lost their lives during that time period?


Don't they matter to you? Don't they count?

I told you to add them.  The first name you gave me was not a homicide or from a TBS.  I am ready lets add them up....you do the checking this time to insure they fall inside the parameters and time lines.  I researched the first, you take it from here....let me know.

Thanks

[RobertBruce]

Okay sounds great. What are the parameters?