Breaking my heart

[Charly]

Parents are responsible for minor children.  They essentially have built in power of attorney.

No, the fact that my son wasn't abused doesn't make anyone else's abuse OK.  I just don't know yet that Carlbrook is abusive.  Maybe Anne is right and it will all come out in a few years.  I believe Hyde is abusive and simply run by nuts.  I believe HLA got in over its head with incompetent staff, trying to be too many things at once and poor leadership.  I am willing to hear from more Carlbrook grads, but so far they majority seem to think the place was OK. (my son being one of the exceptions)

[teachback]

If your parents were minors or you had medical power of attorney, you could certainly have them taken to a facility which would likely be a lot worse than the TBS my son attended, judging from the nursing home cases I read about in the legal journals.

What do you you have to do to get medical power of attorney?

Why does the state not trust the family to  make the decision when in patient is necessary. Why is there due process for coercive therapy for adults and not children?

Excellent questions, squire!

[Charly]

Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that.  It was a long time ago.

[psy]

I did watch it.  I agree that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.  I just don't quite know where that is.  
I am not opposed to coercion in therapy.  I think some of it is needed- I agree with Anne Hall on that.

was what you described on that tape therapy?

Therapy is public humilation?

I doubt you'd find anybody who hasn't gone through an LGAT (and that includes workshops), who approves of that shit.  CEDU's workshops for parents were almost carbon copy est.

[Charly]

Therapy is not public humiliation and I don't condone public humiliation.

[teachback]

And lots of mods looking up IP addresses. That's the way the game is played here.

Karen, that's too general. Who are you implicating specifically? Did you ever change the post in which you claimed I lost custody of my son? Or divulge who used you as a patsy to spread that crap? Out with it.

Wha...? What's this all about?? A patsy? WHAT??? ((LOL))

[Deborah]

Bingo!  Every one of these "different" programs (I've heard that about HLA, Carlbrook, Hyde, ASR and countless others) that are supposedly kinder and gentler begins and ends with forcing a belief system on someone.  Every thing I read from both sides of these kinder, gentler versions smacks of Straight and they way they viewed and dealt with kids.  I have yet to see one that doesn't use coersion or peer groups or levels or phases or LGATs.  THAT'S the dangerous part.

There's a reason. They're all CEDU/est/Lifespring/Synanon based. They're all branches of the same experimental, new-agey bullshit philosophy. They're not kinder and gentler. Instead of putting kids in dog kennels, like their used car salesmen cousins, they focus on mind rape. No visible scars.

[psy]

And lots of mods looking up IP addresses. That's the way the game is played here.

Karen, that's too general. Who are you implicating specifically? Did you ever change the post in which you claimed I lost custody of my son? Or divulge who used you as a patsy to spread that crap? Out with it.

Karen.  These people won't sue you.  If what she says is true... you might as well admit it.

Deb: ... cut that shit out.  Mod privs are not to be abused.  Karen is not HLA.

[Charly]

My son hated Carlbrook- most of the kids who came out swear by it. My son had a classmate from Carlbrook at his next school and they could hardly get him to shut up about how great it was.

[psy]

Therapy is not public humiliation and I don't condone public humiliation.

So you don't condone what went on in that tape?

Gestalt therapy is not est.

[psy]

My son hated Carlbrook- most of the kids who came out swear by it. My son had a classmate from Carlbrook at his next school and they could hardly get him to shut up about how great it was.

Lemme guess.  he graduated.  IE.  you don't graduate until you believe that shit.

[teachback]

Parents are responsible for minor children. They essentially have built in power of attorney.

There needs to be some revisions made concerning children's rights. What say you start litigating in that direction, Charly? Why not try to help someone for a change?

[Deborah]

Guest- I believe there is much abuse at many programs.  I'm just not sure if it is ALL programs.  They aren't all the same.  I wouldn't even consider (at the time) HLA or any CEDU or WWASP program (or any off-shore program) for my son. I had a list of 3 programs I would consider and I chose one.  I don't think it is right for everyone and I don't know what changes have occured since my son was there.

Karen, Karen, Karen.... it wasn't but a few short months ago you were in the HLA forum defending them like the attorney you are. I spose to save face, you had to change your tune when the lawsuit was filed. Or, at what point did you actually change your mind?

[teachback]

Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that.  It was a long time ago.

GET HONEST BITCH!!!!!!!  :evil:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[Anne Bonney]

If my son tells me his programs were abusive to him, I'll listen.

I didn't even recognize that it was abusive for a long time.

TSW- Yes, he grew up. The therapy at the TBS had little to do with it. However, what he did have there were a few staff members (including his therapist) who he really respected and listened to. He didn't listen to us (his parents).  He still emails back and forth with one of them in Latin.  I don't really care whether it was the therapy or not.  The time he was there he was safe, he had a lot of time to read and think, and he came out ready to live his life.  I agreed way before this that the therapy was suspect in terms of the groups, etc.  There were a few things that worked for him, but he is not very receptive to therapy.

Anne- that is what I mean.  It wasn't a matter of my pitying you. It was me telling you I hear what you are saying and I appreciate what you went through.  It's a shame for you that you can't accept that.

But you have no idea what a lasting imprint those raps/propheets/LGATs or whatever they're called at whatever program have.  You have no idea what it's like to have that running around in your head year after year after year.  If your son made it through relatively unscathed, he's a better man than I.  And lucky.  The premise and set up of those types of programs is DANGEROUS.  It isn't possible to make something like that safe.