Breaking my heart

[psy]

Anne-  Based on what I know right now, I don't see that Carlbrook was like Straight.  I just don't see it now.  I am open to hearing from more kids about it.  I DO believe the wilderness program was effective-but I don't want to re-argue that here.

Guest- you are right.  The strong-willed kids seem to do better.  My son didn't buy into one bit of the program.  He sure understood what got him there, though.

Carlbrook wasn't like straight... two different genetic lines of program.. They have similarities.. but ultimately it's closest to CEDU.

Not many kids are as "strong willed" as your son.  He probably had to be really really ... reallly... abnoxious to get isolated like that.  I know because in program people used to try to get a vacation by doing that...  they wanted to get away from the everyday group drama.. even if it meant virtual isolation.

[teachback]

At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information.  It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school.  I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it.  I'm still learning about all this.  

TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.

Then why do you incensantly defend it?  Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?

Because they told her bullshit... just like b-mark told my parents bullshit.  Do you think the tell parents what goes on inside...

I hear you, but she should know better by now.. I think that was Anne's point there.

[Deborah]

Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that.  It was a long time ago.

You know who told you. You divulged that Joe Ferrel was a friend from college, who just happens to be an attorney in Q&Q, HLAs attorney's office. Who else would have a vested interest in using you as a patsy? He knew you'd be all over that, spreading it far and wide.

[psy]

At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information.  It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school.  I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it.  I'm still learning about all this.  

TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.

Then why do you incensantly defend it?  Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?

Because they told her bullshit... just like b-mark told my parents bullshit.  Do you think the tell parents what goes on inside...

I hear you, but she should know better by now.. I think that was Anne's point there.

Have your parents figured it out.... have anne's....  shit.  my mom just figured it out yesterday... after five fucking years...

My dad felt he was being conned... my mom knew something wasn't right...  but they just didn't put it all together... i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?

[Anne Bonney]

At the time we chose this program, as TSW said, there was limited information.  It was a very new program. It was supposedly a different model- that is what we were told when we visited the school.  I still don't know if it closely followed the CEDU model- they claimed to have changed it.  I'm still learning about all this.  

TSW- I went over all the things my son said about his program on the other thread.

Then why do you incensantly defend it?  Why do you keep insisting to us that we don't know what we're talking about and how "different" your TBS was?

Because they told her bullshit... just like b-mark told my parents bullshit.  Do you think the tell parents what goes on inside...

I hear you, but she should know better by now.. I think that was Anne's point there.

yep

[Charly]

My son thought it was bullshit to have to rat out people.  He wouldn't do it.  He thought being on bans with everyone (in his case, all girls) was bullshit.  He didn't obey it.  He set up his Crazy Creek chair in the woods and read Atlas Shrugged when he was supposed to be on work duty chopping down a stump.  He claimed he was "taking a break".  He made friends with the maintenance men and some of his academic teachers.  He was furious that he didn't get to train for his sport like he/we were promised.  They held it over his head-  if he would "buy in" he would get to train.  Never happened.  We even gave the school a treadmill thinking that would help.  Access was really limited to the gym/treadmill.  He asked to be allowed to get up at 6am to train- they wouldn't let him.  He was held out of class as a punishment (I raised hell about that).  I was on their case all the time.  That is what I mean about we DID know what was going on.

[teachback]

Have your parents figured it out.... have anne's....  shit.  my mom just figured it out yesterday... after five fucking years...

My dad felt he was being conned... my mom knew something wasn't right...  but they just didn't put it all together... i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?

NO, but my parents don't come on FORNITS.  :exclaim:

[Anne Bonney]

.. i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?

People like my dad, Karen, The Who..........

[Anonymous]

Deborah- I apologized for anything I said about you and I told you I don't know who on ST told me that.  It was a long time ago.

You know who told you. You divulged that Joe Ferrel was a friend from college, who just happens to be an attorney in Q&Q, HLAs attorney's office. Who else would have a vested interest in using you as a patsy? He knew you'd be all over that, spreading it far and wide.

Say it ain't so Karen!!  ::mecry::

[psy]

My son thought it was bullshit to have to rat out people.  He wouldn't do it.  He thought being on bans with everyone (in his case, all girls) was bullshit.  He didn't obey it.  He set up his Crazy Creek chair in the woods and read Atlas Shrugged when he was supposed to be on work duty chopping down a stump.  He claimed he was "taking a break".  He made friends with the maintenance men and some of his academic teachers.  He was furious that he didn't get to train for his sport like he/we were promised.

Your son's a hero...

They held it over his head-  if he would "buy in" he would get to train.  Never happened.  We even gave the school a treadmill thinking that would help.  Access was really limited to the gym/treadmill.  He asked to be allowed to get up at 6am to train- they wouldn't let him.  He was held out of class as a punishment (I raised hell about that).  I was on their case all the time.  That is what I mean about we DID know what was going on.

That's very little... if you think thats all that was going on...  Ask him what types of things went on in group...  what people confessed to.  were private things discussed in public.  Were people attacked in group? slandered?

[psy]

.. i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?

People like my dad, Karen, The Who..........

I meant the program... parents are the ones who ask that question...

Imagine programs didn't exist.. and you somebody tried to tell you about programs... would you believe it?

[Charly]

Deborah- WHERE did you get that?  Joe Ferrell is a lot younger than I am.  He went to college where I went to law school.  I've never met the man in my life!  I called him to ask him some questions.  That call occurred about 2 weeks ago.   Where in the world do you GET this stuff???

TSW- Yes, I won't troll.  I'll be nice.  I would have apologized to Julie, too, but she doesn't have a way to get PMs.

[Anonymous]

My son thought it was bullshit to have to rat out people.  He wouldn't do it.  He thought being on bans with everyone (in his case, all girls) was bullshit.  He didn't obey it.  He set up his Crazy Creek chair in the woods and read Atlas Shrugged when he was supposed to be on work duty chopping down a stump.  He claimed he was "taking a break".  He made friends with the maintenance men and some of his academic teachers.  He was furious that he didn't get to train for his sport like he/we were promised.  They held it over his head-  if he would "buy in" he would get to train.  Never happened.  We even gave the school a treadmill thinking that would help.  Access was really limited to the gym/treadmill.  He asked to be allowed to get up at 6am to train- they wouldn't let him.  He was held out of class as a punishment (I raised hell about that).  I was on their case all the time.  That is what I mean about we DID know what was going on.

You ask how carlbrook could be bad for a kid? What if they embrace those social norms and when they get home they apply it to their friends and family? Because they will, it will be ingrained in them until they take the time to deprogram themsleves of that bull crap. You might notice a program vs program undertone to a lot of duscussion here thats because they divide the kids. Some buy into it and embrace it, others fight it and see it for what it is like your son. But it seems to me you agree your son was correct in misbehaving in these ways? Am I correct in that, or would you prefered he learned the ethics of ratting out friends to benefit yourself, etc? Most parents see these aspects of program as a good thing, and pay good money for it. They arent on the phone all day long criticizing the program, they are doing the opposite. Then theres ones like Sue Scheff who take it to a whole new level and build a little empire based on their experience as a program parent and fall in love with the whole scheme..  

[Anne Bonney]

.. i mean ... who the fuck does those kinds of things to people?

People like my dad, Karen, The Who..........

I meant the program... parents are the ones who ask that question...

Imagine programs didn't exist.. and you somebody tried to tell you about programs... would you believe it?

Karen admits that these things take place and she's perfectly fine with that.  That's why places like this still exist.  Parents like Karen and my dad think it's perfectly fine to alter someone against their will "for their own good".  It's not.  Ever.

[Charly]

No- I totally supported him in not ratting out people.  I wasn't so sure about the Crazy Creek chair.  My son did need to learn how to live in a community and follow the rules of the community.  I think what happens is that the programs feel they have to over-correct- and maybe they do.