What to do about Restraints

[Anonymous]

One kid killed by 'rebirthing'

tasers ...  in psych hospitals and/or teen programs

Will the kid have to wear the shock collar for the rest of his life? Who will push the shock button?

Are you fuckheads trying to summon me?

[Anonymous]

A parent reported it to the press. It became news.

One wonders, then, why this never happened before. They've been doing this since their inception. In fact if you read their website (they actually changed it about six months ago- it had a lot more stuff on it before) they pretty much talk exclusively about what they do.

So it's kind of hard to believe that a parent suddenly went "Oh my God! They were doing this to my kid?" Well, YEAH, I mean they only ADVERTISED it!

[Anonymous]

Restraint of any kind puts children at risk.

How about tying them up in a blanket so tightly they suffocate to death?

That's what happened to this 4-year-old boy.  After he hopped out of bed one too many times and roamed around the house.

Turns out his adoptive mother had bought some books on "training up kids" from Michael and Debi Pearl (No Greater Joy Ministries) and had been beating the boy and his siblings with the recommended instrument of choice, plumbing supply pipe.

Sickening case all the way around.  Mother will probably plead ignorance and get off with a slap on the ole' wrist though it seems pretty damn clear she had other options than beating her kids into compliance and in the youngest child's case, restraining him in a blanket to keep him from getting out of bed.

There's more to this tragic story though.  The boy and his siblings had all been placed in foster care and then given up for adoption to the Paddocks.  What could have been their saving grace soon became a daily regimen of obedience training by way of a book that many say reads like a child abuse manual.

:flame:

http://[url=http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html]http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html[/url]

[AtomicAnt]

A parent reported it to the press. It became news.

One wonders, then, why this never happened before. They've been doing this since their inception. In fact if you read their website (they actually changed it about six months ago- it had a lot more stuff on it before) they pretty much talk exclusively about what they do.

So it's kind of hard to believe that a parent suddenly went "Oh my God! They were doing this to my kid?" Well, YEAH, I mean they only ADVERTISED it!

The first stories I saw about this shock stuff were many months ago. It's not a just breaking story.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderso ... -kids.html

[Anonymous]

http://http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html

[AtomicAnt]

Check out this programmed parent:

As a last resort for problem students, it absolutely should be used. Traditional schooling just cannot work for some severe behavioral cases. I realize that it sounds horrible, but in all honesty, this has a proven case history behind it- shock collars for dogs. The human animal isn't that far different.

Why -shouldn't- it be used? I cannot think of a single reason. For these kids, this is a last resort. If they aren't rehabilitated by whatever means necessary, society will be forced to deal with them later- when the problem is far too set it. Take care of the problem, however you can, while they are young. Fix the problem now, before these kids are out of control 20 year olds, or 30 year olds, committing real crimes.

Behavior modification is a positive thing, not a negative one.

Posted By Helen E., New York, NY : 10:12 PM ET

Emphasis mine. Here we have a classic case of backwards logic. Why shouldn't we, instead of the correct why should we question. She equates kids with dogs.

It 'sounds horrible,' because it is.

[egypt has pyramids]

Reputable dog trainers don't use shock collars. So even if they want to believe in the analogy that kids are like dogs, they should realize they are seeking the advice of debunked dog behavioralists.

Have you ever noticed it's the same kind of families that have neurotic dogs that have "troubled teens"?

Why -shouldn't- it be used? I cannot think of a single reason.

I think this would be best desribed as a complete and utter lack of empathy.

[Anonymous]

How about tying them up in a blanket so tightly they suffocate to death?

Jesus.

I have finally heard of a real-life action sicker than killing seven-year-old girls for gargling milk.

[Nihilanthic]

Something I have noticed is if someone pushes me so far I wig out and start yelling and breaking things if they SHUT THE FUCK UP? and LEAVE ME ALONE© I calm down really, really fast!

Why? Because I wouldn't BE so mad if you werent in my face pushing my buttons.

Restraints are set up much more often than they are there to 'control someone who is out of control'. They are pushed in to them, either directly or by living in a shitty environment that just builds and builds up the pressure until they need to get away from it so bad they can't control themselves anymore.


So, uh, I think 9/10 restraints would be un-necessary if they weren't in a program to begin with, and if they weren't being pushed to the edge by people in the program while in it. At least in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Reputable dog trainers don't use shock collars. So even if they want to believe in the analogy that kids are like dogs, they should realize they are seeking the advice of debunked dog behavioralists.

Have you ever noticed it's the same kind of families that have neurotic dogs that have "troubled teens"?

Why -shouldn't- it be used? I cannot think of a single reason.

I think this would be best desribed as a complete and utter lack of empathy.

Nihilanthic & myself would probably both use shock-collars recreationally. :lol:

But again, there's a BIG difference between consensual use for a bit of fun, and out-&-out abuse in a drug treatment facility! Doing something like that to someone can be extremely damaging psychologically, despite even what some psychologists may tell you!!!!

[Nihilanthic]

If someone wants to feel helpless, then, uh, its not a bad thing.

If someone does not (most people in most cases, even people who do in some cases in most cases do not...) and you force that on them its very stressful and then quickly very traumatic. It is VERY abusive!

Another thing is setting. A game where someone can say "enough!" with trust and a desire to have fun, versus an institution where you have no rights, no ability to say STOP, and the whole point is to make you break, well, yeah.

I'm frankly just amazed why people don't ever think about what it would be like to go through it themselves? BAM - perfect litmus test.

[Anonymous]

twiddling thumbs
widdling wood
dont be doing
things ya should

prick it goes
no resign
gravity overtakes
quick design

fitting will
true intent
hidden down
dark n spent

hurt me now
no matter much
all i ask
please dont touch

[Deborah]

Here's a suggestion I made a while back.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=119907#119907

Program has to read the kid their "Restraint Rights".

[Carmel]

Something I have noticed is if someone pushes me so far I wig out and start yelling and breaking things if they SHUT THE FUCK UP? and LEAVE ME ALONE© I calm down really, really fast!

Why? Because I wouldn't BE so mad if you werent in my face pushing my buttons.

Restraints are set up much more often than they are there to 'control someone who is out of control'. They are pushed in to them, either directly or by living in a shitty environment that just builds and builds up the pressure until they need to get away from it so bad they can't control themselves anymore.


So, uh, I think 9/10 restraints would be un-necessary if they weren't in a program to begin with, and if they weren't being pushed to the edge by people in the program while in it. At least in my opinion.

I agree with this...on restraints being more or less instigated.  Thats how it was in my program.  In fact it was the general rule.  More kids were pinned in their chairs in attempt to make them sit properly....than they were pinned to the floor for trying to run.  Of course the chair pinning almost always lead to a floor restraint after several hours.

"Fix em while their young" she says? Oh yeah, that'll fix em alright....fix em right and proper.  Just you wait and see the monster that sort of treatment creates.  

What a sick world we live in these days where a kid has to be "rehabilitated" from being a normal kid.

[Anne Bonney]

Something I have noticed is if someone pushes me so far I wig out and start yelling and breaking things if they SHUT THE FUCK UP? and LEAVE ME ALONE© I calm down really, really fast!

Why? Because I wouldn't BE so mad if you werent in my face pushing my buttons.

Restraints are set up much more often than they are there to 'control someone who is out of control'. They are pushed in to them, either directly or by living in a shitty environment that just builds and builds up the pressure until they need to get away from it so bad they can't control themselves anymore.


So, uh, I think 9/10 restraints would be un-necessary if they weren't in a program to begin with, and if they weren't being pushed to the edge by people in the program while in it. At least in my opinion.

I agree with this...on restraints being more or less instigated.  Thats how it was in my program.  In fact it was the general rule.  More kids were pinned in their chairs in attempt to make them sit properly....than they were pinned to the floor for trying to run.  Of course the chair pinning almost always lead to a floor restraint after several hours.

"Fix em while their young" she says? Oh yeah, that'll fix em alright....fix em right and proper.  Just you wait and see the monster that sort of treatment creates.  

What a sick world we live in these days where a kid has to be "rehabilitated" from being a normal kid.

Yep.  I remember the days of people jamming their knuckles into your back b/c you weren't sitting up straight enough.  Or kicking your feet out from under your chair if they weren't flat on the floor.  Forced motivation (furiously flapping your arms about in an attempt to be 'noticed' when vieing for the 'opportunity to share' in a rap) when people would grab your arms and start flailing them around.  If you even thought about objecting or reacting to this in any way, including just giving someone a dirty look, you were flat on the floor with 4 or 5 people sitting on you for hours on end while still being 'confronted' and screamed at for 'taking time away from the group'.   Thankfully never happened to me, I was too scared to do anything 'wrong' after watching a couple of kids go through that.  And everyone's reaction to it!!  Staff screaming at people to keep their eyes 'face front'.  The whole group being expected to ignore the horror that was unfolding and continue on with the rap.  Sick doesn't even begin to describe it.