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Offline Anonymous

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« on: January 07, 2007, 11:09:12 PM »
Theres an organization called stand up for kids started by an ex navy guy in san diego that has spread all across thec ountry and they help kids without asking any questions. ive worked with a guy who helps out at one of their places and they are really good people. they walk the streets handing out food and clothes and sit and talk with kids living there fleeing abuse or whatever and don't pressure them to go into a govt home or call the cops or anything like that. good advice this thread is, beacuse running away from coercive programs is a very real part of this industry!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Nihilanthic

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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2007, 05:01:03 AM »
I guess we need someone who knows how to find food and water in the woods, and how to come across as "just a runaway" or just a street kid and get food/water and protect yourself within a city, next...

Weapons improvisation and self defense would be right up my alley but you can't really do that via text, you kind of have to train it. I can give a few tips, though.

If in public, scream FIRE! Also, RAPE doesn't work, but something that would make people come pissed off would, so be racist. Screaming NIGGER, for instance, would probably get more people to flock to you than anything else.

Sad, I know, but psychology is what it is! It probably got you, the reader a little ticked off. But at any rate, blending in, seen but not noticed, you're harder to spot and someone is less likely to start shit in a crowded area.

The best way to get out of someone trying to restrain or capture you is to simply never be seen and grabbed in the first place. Learn how to be observant without visibly paranoid, and limit exposure like TSW said. The biggest thing is "not looking suspicious"... but this is street smarts and can't really be taught, especially over the internet.

Should you have to get physical with someone, besides the usual going for the eyes or solar plexus type shit, if you don't really know how to punch someone I would suggest being dirty. Go for the groin with a kick, grab someones head and jump and knee them in the face/nose if possible, and as soon as they relent or get stunned or back off, RUN WITHOUT LOOKING BACKWARDS.

Also, keep your fucking shoes tied and FIND A WEAPON. PERIOD. Unarmed vs a weapon, the armed guy almost always wins unless you're talking about a movie or make-believe, sadly enough. Interestingly tons of stores offer small folders for a few bucks, especially hardware stores, car part stores, and whatnot. Just be aware if you're gonna use one for a while to inspect the locking mechanism unless you like slicing up your fingers and you might have to super glue where bolts/screws are in it to hold it together better.

And, also, if you see a chance presented, go for it. Always be ready to bolt, always be thinking of how to escape without letting on to it. Our POW's are told to cooperate, but always try to break for it when possible. Should you find yourself as a child in a program, and if you survive, hell, if you escape, pat yourself on the back - you did what fucking soldiers don't always do, as a child, and arguably had it worse in some ways, if not all depending on where in particular you got sent.

And, worst case, a sure-fire way to get sent to a program is to commit a crime that would get you for sure put in jail. If it comes down to stabbing someone so they go to the hospital, and the hospital reports it, and you get booked for stabbing someone in the leg or whatever, that might suck, but if it would honestly be preferable to a program, well, there you go.

You can also always claim self defense depending on what they did to you, so you might want to wait until after you've been beaten up, covered in marks, underfed/malnourished, joint injured from restraints or psychologically fucked up.

Then again, if you are willing to do that to escape, I'd say you're already mentally torn up enough for a Psych to evaluate you and aid your defense.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Antigen

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What I would have done differently
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2007, 09:54:22 AM »
I don't know about making it across the badlands. My program was in the city, more or less. Easy walk to the interstate. But I had better luck at night for all the obvious reasons.

I wish I had been thinking a little more clearly the few times I took a vacation. I found out years later that some of my relatives would have been happy to take me in and not mention it to anybody. But I didn't think of them; I assumed the whole family and all old friends were on the program's side. If I had it to do over again, I would take a little time and contact a few of them, feel them out. You can do this from a public library these days or a friendly stranger w/ a lap-top at starbucks. Hell, for that matter, if you make it that far contact some ppl from the growing network of anti-program websites. You still have to watch your back with this crowd, but at least you can skip the ordeal of explaining the unexplainable to us.

If you wind up hitchhiking, come up with a good cover story. Nothing real morose or anything, that tends to turn people off. Instead, say you're a little older, college age or so, people will believe what they want to. And you're headed for some destination where you're expected; sister in Des Moines or something.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2007, 11:03:51 AM »
TSW I gotta tell you man, this is the most honest and truthiness post I've ever seen on fornits. Most adults would freak at someone giving this kind of advice to children, but I think it is exactly what the doctor ordered!

Obviously the closer the kid is to 18 the easier it will be. I wil be back with some of my tricks and advice because I have also run away several times from home and a few programs, and managed to escape from a few programs by manipulating my way out as well

I would stick to urban areas, it's pretty easy to survive in urban areas, it's a lot less easy to stay safe though so you have to beware at all time, and keep in mind this is coming from a male not a female!

One thing you can do if you are really screwed over and have no where to go or something is go to the hospital. Tell them you are hearing voices that are telling you to kill yourself and other people. Now be sure you are ready to give up your freedom for at least a week with this ploy, because once you do this you lose control to a certain extent. But it does work. Tell the ER people you can't stop the voices and that you are going to kill yourself, and act depressed and crazy, but don't overdo it. Or just act normal if this is how you normally are!!  :P

Even if you dont have a ID on you, they wil still evaluate you and take you into the ER. Oh yeah, be sure to pick a hospital with a psych ward, this is paramount, because that's where you are going for! Once you are in, you got a bed, three awesome meals a day, peers to interact with and shoot the shit, pretty descent adults to talk with... but of course they are going to drug you up the wazoo, but thats the price you gotta pay I guess, you can always just spit them out. So play the game however you want long you want to stay. Keep being crazy if you want to stay longer. Or tell them the truth and you were on the streets with no where else to go running from a coercive program you couldn't stay at anymore. You got a warm bed, food and people who genuinely care about whether you live or die so that's a start.

I think one of the deadliest mistakes run aways make is not asking for help out of fear, but in reality there are so many people out there willing to help you if you know where to go (which program kids of course dont).

But after getting out of a program, if they are anything like me, they won't trust ANYBODY! Not even themselves.

Great thread. More from me coming later.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2007, 11:10:23 AM »
You know what, guys? It's a valiant effort and all but sort of pointless to post something like that on a board like this.

If you're reading this right now that means you're probably not at a TBS, but have reason to believe that you might get sent to one.

So let's discuss prevention, shall we?

1. Get your parents to read Fornits, ISAC, AntiWWASP, etc etc... print it out if you have to. PM their phone numbers to Ginger, Psy, TSW, etc.

2. Didn't work? Start calling your distant relatives... all of 'em.

3. Didn't work? Barricade your door at night, hide a sharp kitchen knife, and don't accept any glass of any drink your parents serve you. (No, seriously.) The escorts will eventually break through your door; when they do, stab them in the guts. Don't be like some knife fighter and do some momentum-less stab, either; put your body into it in a "prison rush" and shove it in as far as it will go. You'll probably be sent to jail, but that sure as shit beats a mindfuck facility and you can tell the judge, very truthfully, that your parents had been brainwashed by a bunch of sadistic torturers and you were acting in self-defense. (Seriously, since it is self-defense, this isn't illegal.)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 11:14:55 AM »
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
I don't suggest stealing cars, but at some point if you are forced to do so:

http://http://www.wikihow.com/Hotwire-a-Car

Again I strongly reccomend not doing it.
[/quote]

And if you can't start it sleeping in a car sure beats not sleeping in one (and its safer). Just walk down the street until you find one that's unlocked and try your best to wake up before dawn to avoid unnecessary confrontation.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 11:16:38 AM »
Kids are growing up web savvy from birth now, you don't think one of them might find this page? I don't think that is an impossibility, it's probably likely. Who knows how long this archive will be around.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2007, 12:12:42 PM »
There have been some very good suggestions in this thread.  Obviously, planning is paramount to success.  Remember, the "6 P's":  PRIOR PLANNING PREVENTS PISS POOR PERFORMANCE.

Look, you're stuck, locked up with nothing but time on your hands.  Use this time constructively to plan your escape.  Don't go off half-cocked!  

Be thorough in your plan and execute it only when you have the best chance to succeed (more likely than not on a weekend and after dark, preferably later in the overnight shift when the staff lose their vigilance).  Don't go all in with a three and a jack, kids.  Wait til you have a pair of kings and make your move.  Get your money in the middle when you are the favorite - the odds matter!

Some things that were not covered:

1.  NEVER hatch a plan that requires an accomplice.  "Accomplice" can be defined as "RAT" when you're in a facility.  Go it alone or don't go!

2.  NEVER tell anyone about your plan.  See "RAT" above.

3.  ALWAYS comply with the program while you're there.  Resistance breeds suspicion, and, I can tell you from my time as a counselor, NONE of the kids on my radar for running ever got out.  Once you're on the radar it's hard to get off it, so STAY off it.  Go with the flow and participate to avoid scrutiny.  Don't be TOO GOOD though, because that's as suspicious as looking really bad.  Find a place in between and stay there until you bolt.

4.  AVOID violence as much as you can.  Charges over your head make it harder to escape because now you have LEO's crawling all over looking for you.  Remember, YOU CAN'T OUTRUN THE RADIO.  Once the cops are involved, your chances go way, way down.

5.  If, after you bolt, you feel like you may need to resort to violence, you can improvise a device with which to defend yourself.  A strong, thin object (like a tree limb) can be used as a clubbing mechanism, or can be sharpened easily on one end to become a stabbing device.  Remember, stabbing takes less force, less room to maneuver and is far more effective.  If you are swinging a club at an already alerted target, they can step directly inside the radius of your swing and get to you unharmed while you're out of position completing a swing.  With a stabbing weapon you keep them at a distance and the sharpened point can do much more damage much more quickly than a club.  Let's face it, one or two jabs with a spear that produce a lot of blood will stun or give pause to your opponent briefly while you RUN LIKE HELL.  Stabbing is quicker and more effective than clubbing.  That's the lesson here.  REMEMBER, if you choose to fight, you must fight to WIN.

6.  MOVEMENT.  Move at night wherever possible.  Use cover.  If you are at risk of being spotted by an approaching searcher, remain as still and quiet as you can until they move away.  Bolting at this point will only get you caught for sure.  

If you need to move during the day in isolated terrain, use a chapter out of hunting skills.  Use the principles of the "still hunt."  Stay still longer than you move.  Scan the terrain very, very carefully  from cover BEFORE MAKING ANY MOVES.  Once you're sure the coast is clear, move a short distance to cover you've already cleared by observation, then be still and start scanning again.

7.  What to bring with you.  Well, food is unnecessary.  You'll get where you're going before you starve.  The body can last up to 2 weeks without food.  Water is key.  Try to bring some with you if you can, but it's heavy, so you can't bring much.  If you can get at cleaning supplies, take a few fluid ounces of bleach with you.  Two drops of bleach per gallon of water is sufficient to kill microbes, etc.  Purify your own if you have to.

If you can, try to wear two sets of clothes on top of eachother, or three if you can get away with it and it isn't too encumbering.  Remember, getting wet and then getting cold will end your run and may lead to serious problems.  Try to run in warm, dry weather when possible.

Try to snag a trash bag.  This can carry some items and keep you dry.

8.  How to "stay gone."  Well, if you make it this far, you're in the minority, but you've succeeded to large degree.  DON'T call or go to the people that locked you up!  REPEAT: DON'T call or go to the people that locked you up!  You'll get better care from a stranger than your folks at this point.  If you need to contact  friend to help you, do it from a library and USE A PROXY!  If you send an email without a proxy, you can be not only generally located, but PINPOINTED at a certain time and place.  USE A PROXY!

Try to get out of rural areas ASAP.  Get into an urban area where you can blend in and find help.  NEVER use your real name.  Think up an alias and ahead of time and get used to hearing/using it so you look less suspicious.

This is a lot to go over, so I'll leave it here for now.

Any questions, just ask.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 12:18:18 PM »
Food.. since there are laws against grocery stores giving out expired food to non profits and such nowadays, big grocery stores are forced to throw away a shitload of food. dumpster diving can be quite profitable behind the right store.

restaurants, try family restaurants.. one way to tell is if the staff looks like family members or if teenagers are working there or something like that. sit down and if you have a dollar get a cofee or soda. if nothing then just get a water. dont do this ina busy restaurant, theyll hate you for taking a table. if the place is slow a lot of times they could care less. theres a couple ways you can go about it. you can be straight up and ask the owner for a meal and say you are poor, and youd be surprised how kind a lot of people can be.. but that goes both ways so always be careful. another way is to wait for another table to finish eating and then ask the busboy if you can box up their leftover food real quick. they might give you a few looks or laugh but what do they care you are doing their job for them. ive worked in enough restaurants all my life to see this shit done all the time. dont dine and ditch though. theyll call the cops and press cahrges a lot of times and its just fucked up. if you ask and are sincere that is a much safer option. when bums came in and asked we would always give them something. but when they tried to steal we'd get pissed.

money.. begging. get to a city with a lot of people and sit somewhere where theres foot traffic and hold out something and beg. it worke for st francis, it just might work for you too.

loding.. definitely the trickiest. street friends and squats.. but that is not a good option. wwoof is willing workers on organic farms,the book is like 20 bucks and it has hundreds of farms int he US that offer labor exchange for food and lodging for like 5 hrs of work per day. they have it in canada and all over the world. its a good option to get off the street, doing some good healthy work and be around good food and good people. and a great way to dissappear and go completely off the radar. motels, but they are so expensive its not really an option. apartments.. yeah right never going to happen. if i were underage i would get in contact with stand up for kids, they do that stuff as a passion, helping street kids.

safety.. time to be creative because this is probably the most important thing and the hardest to fulfill.

it would be pretty hard to do if you were under 18 unless you have somewhere to go. friends, relatives, church or something. the programs do such a good job at "disconnecting" you from these sources though, its so hard to ask a kid in that situation to be so clear thinking.

if i were giving advice to a kid it would be hard to suggest running because of the dangers. but i think its wrong to not be honest because some kids might choose to do it anyways. i did.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 12:24:34 PM »
www.ic.org (Working) Intentional Commmunity Link

 :oops:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 12:29:11 PM »
Quote
do it from a library and USE A PROXY!


DJ? These kids aren't going to know how to do that. "Do it from a library" is more than enough. It takes days for something like that to be traced, and they'd have to know to trace it in the first place! That is, they'd have to be sending email, PMs, whatever to someone who snitched on them. Being seen in the library by the wrong person is a much, much bigger security risk. By the time anyone caught up electronically, the kid'd be long, long gone.
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2007, 12:57:28 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Quote
do it from a library and USE A PROXY!

DJ? These kids aren't going to know how to do that. "Do it from a library" is more than enough. It takes days for something like that to be traced, and they'd have to know to trace it in the first place! That is, they'd have to be sending email, PMs, whatever to someone who snitched on them. Being seen in the library by the wrong person is a much, much bigger security risk. By the time anyone caught up electronically, the kid'd be long, long gone.


Some will know how to do it and some will not.  However, it IS important because the instant an email is received, the header can be viewed.  The header shows where the email was sent from, so detection can be just minutes away.  I trace people like this all the time!  In any case, it helps to avoid being vectored by pursuit, because they will need at least two metrics to find you, like your location and the time you were there.  Cut it down to a single metric and chances of being caught go down by tenfold or more.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2007, 01:05:08 PM »
Quote
Go for the high calorie items in small packages.




..back to your regularly scheduled thread now...
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2007, 01:12:52 PM »
Try to change your appearance as much as possible and as soon as possible.  If the place makes  notes of the type and color of clothes you have take a dark shirt and bleach it out when you have the chance, before you leave so you have clothing that is different from what they think you have.   Wear it on the inside of your layers of clothes then change at the first opportunity. Wear dark clothes at night.  Change your hair: part it differently, shave or cut it short if you can bring a razor or scizzors.  If you wear glasses, try to get around without them when you are around people.  If you don't wear glasses try to get some before you go and wear them when around people.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »