Author Topic: Friendly reminder.  (Read 46927 times)

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Offline hanzomon4

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Friendly reminder.
« Reply #90 on: January 19, 2007, 12:13:45 AM »
No anti I'm not attacking you, I'm letting you know my concerns. I don't doubt your intentions or passion but I do doubt anyone's ability to bring order to a corrupt industry without first bringing serious social and legislative change. Having a referral business is something I don't agree with, however I'm not going to knock you for trying to do what you feel is the right thing.

I would like you to take a few of my suggestions into consideration:
  • Inform your visitors about the industry(as a whole not just wwasps) and the lack of adequate oversight, regulation, and accountability in every program. Even programs that really try to do the right thing have no legal obligation to do so, and accreditation or licensing with an "out of state" licensing board does not cut it.
  • Inform parents of the position of the APA and the State departments warning on facilities located abroad.
  • Setup a blacklist of conditions that should not be subjected to punitive behavior "correction" based treatment such as tourette's syndrome, depression, suicidal ideation, add/adhd, ocd, autism, sexuality(LGBT, or regular sexual behavior), trauma resulting from sexual/physical abuse, or counter religious views.  These conditions are better addressed with patience and counseling. Suicidal ideation may need a short term placement in a hospital psych ward in times of immediate crisis, key words being short term and immediate crisis. Others like depression or add/adhd may be helped with drugs(not in my case)
  • Attempt to identify what's lacking in terms of legislation that places youth in harms way and post it on your site. You could use this to educate parents and to keep track of any positive, or negative, change in our laws.


It would be great to have this put in the parents section or someplace parents would have to come across if they're thinking about placement. Whatever you decide I truly wish you good luck in your stated goal,  keeping kids safe from harm.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

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Offline Anonymous

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Friendly reminder.
« Reply #91 on: January 19, 2007, 12:16:33 AM »
Kevin, you claim no kids have been placed by you---yet you post your approved schools on the TeenHelp.us website,, and you continue to ask parents to complete your evaluation form.

Your "WWASP SCARE" does not work here; so we have no way of knowing if parents you couldn't help have enrolled their kids in a WWASP program, or not.

You are correct saying other referral companies will continue to "spring up."  SO?????

What do you mean "I haven't approved every school that has contacted me?"  You have no qualifications, or criteria by which to approve facilities.

And you asking fornits posters to "help me out with the guidelines, etc." is laughable, if it wasn't so shocking and outrageous.  WE ARE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF REFERRING CHILDREN INTO PROGRAMS.   What part of that do you not get?

Your ads are your business; it is your website--but it's a fact that you are selling WWASP related SALES ADS through your website.

Think most folks would agree:  YOU NEED THAT DISCLAIMER!

It is a hard concept to comprehend: How strange and difficult it must be for you to "endorse a program after being in one."

You establishing a new referral company is not "something new."
It a  lousy, OLD THING TO DO. You are not unique.  Sorry.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #92 on: January 19, 2007, 12:19:06 AM »
Like water off a ducks back, I could care less what you think about me  :roll:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #93 on: January 19, 2007, 12:28:35 AM »
Referring kids to programs just because the parents are going to ship them off anyway is far from noble. A surgeon who operates on a patient  ,who doesn't need surgery, just because they would get the operation performed elsewhere is a possible crime(malpractice). The only difference between the two is that one is legally held to account for his/her actions...

But like I said in my last post, please take what we're saying into consideration...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #94 on: January 19, 2007, 12:42:41 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
CCM, lots could be said about you, a former WWASP student even considering the referral business; or it could be pointed out that Kevin does not have anything creditials that qualify him to be making placements in any program.

But, sort of like Ginger posted, why bother?

 I will say, that IMO,You are a fucking, heartless, self-centered bitch
who likes to hear herself talk!


Well, I may be self-centered?!!  But, seriously, do you think I care what you think of me? It doesn't phase me! Just like me saying you're a fucking freak of nature that can only sit on their computer bitching and moaning about an industry that they'll never do anything about, because they don't have the social skills, or the brain power to do anything about it, or your just to damn lazy?! BTW, who the hell do you think you are calling me a self-centered bitch? Do you really think you'll  be able to influence any parents who are thiinking of sending their kids away over this site the way you behave? You're nobody "Guest". N-O-B-O-D-Y. Do you think your fucking posts here save kids from being sent away? The answer would be NO! If you think by posting a few random messages here, and there, are going to save kids, then it is you who has the God complex! I'm the Almighty One!!!!! Hahahahahaha! BTW, I'm not the only one who writes fucking novels on this site......if we all didn't like to hear ourselves talk, and to be heard, we wouldn't be here, you fucking hypocrite!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #95 on: January 19, 2007, 12:45:00 AM »
Thought it was "water off a duck's back" there CCM!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #96 on: January 19, 2007, 12:51:24 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Thought it was "water off a duck's back" there CCM!


My bad, my bad! I won't even revise it, I think it shows how truely exhausted I am! Goodnight all!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #97 on: January 19, 2007, 01:21:53 AM »
Nite girlie.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #98 on: January 19, 2007, 01:57:49 AM »
Apparently, disclaimers are not fool proof.

Look at the Turley lawsuit.  There are a couple of referral agencies being sued by parents and teens.

Not sure if they had any disclaimers but I would imagine they would, along with business insurance.

Something to think about even if you aren't a top of the line referral agency, whatever the fuck that is.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #99 on: January 19, 2007, 02:57:28 AM »
Quote from: ""antiwwasp""
I keep trying to quit here and I take the bait and come back to defend myself because I care about these teens. Not a minute goes by when I don't think about the kids still locked away in SCL. I try to spend a few minutes each day remembering what I went through, just for motivation. The result is that I still endure many nightmares. Just placing myself there in my conscious mind unleashes my unconscious mind in my sleep and often I have nightmares about being back in the facilities on a regular basis. If you think it's easy to endorse a school after being in one and then getting sh*t for it think again. I never could have foreseen the torrent of misplaced energy created by this affair. It's quite disheartening to see so many dedicated people devoted to what I perceive to be the same goals, cast away my work as you have, without trying to become more involved or take an active role in helping me form it.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your opposition to something new. It may be valid, we'll have to see what happens. I just hope that I can come back here in a few months with my results and show you all what I did BY MYSELF.

It should tell you something that although similar services are popping up all the time (http://www.insightpros.com/Alliances.html) I actually feel like coming here and putting up with being disrespected, just to gain more knowledge on how to create this service to help people. I suppose that is why you feel the need to attack me (or my service which is a direct product of me), because I am the only one making myself vulnerable.


Kev, I don't think it's fair to say that all this energy is misplaced. And nobody's seriously attacking you personally, at least not of what I've read so far. It's the plan that's under scrutiny. And what did you expect when you decided to go post an ad on Fornits? Hey, we may be assholes, but we serve a purpose. If you want an issue beat within an inch of it's life, if for no other reason than just to see what's standing when the blood and hair settle, why I've got the crew for you!

Honest to God, my best advice to you is to limit (not exclude) contact w/ program affiliated people. Take in some outsider views. Find out how other people live and think. I'm not being facetious here. I was raised in this cult from about the time I was 6, then foolishly spent the next 20+ years in S. Florida, where my own personal boogiemen own and piss all over everything. It would be like you living, lovin and raisin kids in SLC.... or... say... perhaps... making a vocation that, as you note, takes up a lot of time and energy and, really, pays very little AND keeps you tied to the cult. Even if you imagine it to be a tied at the wrist knife fight, you really think you're up for that, son?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2007, 03:04:41 AM »
Quote from: ""antiwwasp""
As for the disclaimer. I'm not stupid. Why would I leave myself open to unnecessary lawsuits and legal opposition? Even if I stand behind teenshelp, it doesn't mean I'm going to neglect my responsibilities to protect myself.


Ok, this is what I'm talking about. You're practically defenseless. You can just say "I'm covering my ass". That is not a crime. You don't have to apologize for it or turn it into a burdensome responsibility.

I suspect you approve of Magnolia and Stone Soup because it's your alma mater. Am I right? Cause drawing on the graduate community for staff and vendors is not usually a very good idea. All kinds of problems arise.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Antigen

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« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2007, 03:09:32 AM »
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Why wouldn't you trust Kev, or someone like me, that was in these type of places for years?


Cause I know a whole lot of them. Shit, nearly all of the long term, big wheel staff are program graduates. You should check into pre-purchasing Evan Wright's upcoming book. I don't know what's in it, exactly, but I understand he did some really interesting interviews.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2007, 08:43:03 AM »
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Quote from: ""Cassandra""
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Why wouldn't you trust Kev, or someone like me, that was in these type of places for years?

Cause I know a whole lot of them. Shit, nearly all of the long term, big wheel staff are program graduates. You should check into pre-purchasing Evan Wright's upcoming book. I don't know what's in it, exactly, but I understand he did some really interesting interviews.



Objectivity on CCM girl and Kevin is highly suspect when involved in this sort of subject matter. How could I trust a program graduate to be objective about a program of any sort?

Can't trust them, and won't.

Program survivors and exstaff are the worst people in the world to even try to go into referring. It is a simple matter of logic to understand why. But rather than delve into the logic part of it at the moment I will point out the obvious facts.

1) Unless you are living at the facility you can't ensure constant ongoing supervision of the staff and their treatment of the residents.

2) Unless you actually visit the place you don't even know if the pretty pictures on the website are for rea.

3) An employer turning over FBI background checks to an outside party is illegal under federal law. I am sure the good people at Magnolia X-tian Reformatory forgot about that one.

4) What educational qualifications do CCM Girl and Kevin bring to the table to assess the educational and clinical aspects of the program? None.



You see it is more than just pulling the stand by boogie man out of the bag and waving it around. Holding up wwasp as your strawman for a bad facility while saying this one and this one is good is impossible. You have absolutely no credentials to make that sort of determination. Futher it frankly scares me that  you, a program graduate,  would even consider yourself able to objectively evaluate a program.

Every program after WWASP to some extent has to seem like a better placement than what you experienced.

I don't trust in you objective ability to sift through a mass of information without thinking all the while, "Well it isn't wwasp so how bad can it be?"


Well, you know what scares me? People that stuck their noses in books, maybe wrote a few essays, drank a shitload of beer, and basically coasted their way through college to get a 4 year degree in something they don't really know shit about because they never experience it themselves! So, I could say the same of you, who have some of the best edjucations, from some of the top Ivy League Schools in the country to spend 6-8 years in schools just to get Dr. infront of your name???? That really doesn't mean shit to me in regards to  finding my teen a school that fits their needs.

Kinda like in that movie Good Will Hunting when Matt Damon keeps on fooling all those shrinks (that was hillarious)! Most shrinks don't know shit except how to put a pen to paper, and perscribe you something. That's pretty much all they're good for. Some of the best advice I have gotten in my life, is from people who are older, and have tons of life experience.

So, what I lack in schooling.......I make up ten times over in my lifes experiences, and the fact I just happen to be naturally intelligent doesn't hurt either.

BTW, my programs include Heritage, Outward Bound (basically survival for a week with no food for 3 1/2 days then very little for the rest with only the clothes on our backs hiking 10 miles a day or so through the Southern Utah Area hot as hell during the day, freezing cold at night), a layover at Orems Psychiatric Hospital, back to Heritage, then shipped to Cross Creek, then freed myself by running at the age of 16 to never return. Being on the run, at everyones mercy. Good times, let me tell you!

So, basically what I don't bring to the table in regards to "edjucation", or having a "degree", I bring to the table life experience. If you'd like check my college records, go ahead, and you will find that during my nearly 2 years that I attended J.C. that I took every kind of psychology class that was available to me. Those were basically the classes I did the best in. I have the ability to see through people, and into their souls. If I were meeting you face to face, I would have a pretty good idea of who you were as a person within 5 minutes. I would do that in a way that you'd never even suspect that that was what I was really doing.

What about the hundreds of girls I lived with throughout my years of placement, and all the different personalities I've dealt with. I think I have seen it all, and nothing shocks me. I also know the guys too. Let's face it, I just know it all! Sorry ,I couldn't resist for all of those of you who think I am a conceited bitch!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline CCM girl 1989

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« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2007, 09:24:03 AM »
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
What you just posted makes me believe its all the more important that you stay as far away from the referral business as possible. Really you aren't helping your case any.


Remember... Life experiences... Tsk... Isn't that what they say most WWASP counselors bring to the table?


That is what some of them say, true. But, all the counselors that have said that they had such experience, came from WWASPS schools (and their schools only), and their ways of teaching. That's really not all I've got Gookin. But, don't worry, I have no plans of going into the referral business as I stated before, at the moment. But, if I did, I am sure I wouldn't need your approval, or anyone elses here on this board.

It's not my job to habilitate you all. I don't think I signed up for that job?!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.

Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2007, 09:28:55 AM »
What are you so pissed about?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]