Moral clarity

[Anonymous]

And that's why I am so adimate about the distinction. Don't give program parents a blanket excuse of ignorance, because for some of them it isn't true. There is a VERY fine line between ignorance, and purposefully not educating yourself. Why don't fundamentalist christians have a copy of origina of species next to their bible on their bookshelf? The same reason program parents don't google the name of their program.

[exhausted]

Exhausted  I am curious if you had sent your son off after you got that email (as many parents do) and he came back and reported cult like activity, emotional abuse, the kind of stuff you hear about here... how would you react to that? What would you say to your kid when you look them in the eyes? That's what I really want to know from program parents, what answer could you possibly give?

Oh God don't....I'm not sure I can answer that, I think you'd have to have been in that position....I think my 1st concern would be to make sure my son was 100% okay mentally and if not, do whatever i could do try and undo any damage, beg forgiveness form my son would be the second thing on my list, expain my reasons and also tell him i understand if he can't find it in his heart to forgive me for putting him in that position...

Then i'd go after the program....and probably end up doing life for several murders

[Anonymous]

Guest, programme paremnts don't do it to their kids, the programs do, the parents sendd their kids away because they realy believe their kid will die in a horrific way if they don't take action, Milk is right that it doesn't make it right, but I certainly wouldn't slate anyone for trying to do whatever it takes to save their kid when they really really believe they are in danger...

Exhausted, the intentional abuse factor varies from (parental) unit to unit. The logic in inescapable.

There are some parents that desperately need a good kick in the head with a steel-toed boot. It's the 'rents that supply these places with what they need most in order to stay in operation -- MONEY!!

Soon, if I have my way, ignorance will no longer be an excuse and there will be horrible consequences dealt out & the blood of parental unit after unit will be spilled. Their kids will be standing there with knives and big ol' grins on their faces. Parents, your time has come. :skull:

I couldn't agree more; you're dead on! Ignorance should no longer be used as a defense! Parents who pay to have their kids abused deserve to die! Enough said!

[White Cracker Man]

Exhausted, if some Aspen kid said that some program is great, do you change your mind and get escorts to drag him out of bed at 3 am in handcuffs?I know the answer to that but I am trying to make a point.

[Anonymous]

I asked the wrong person then because you seem to be a normal caring parent.

I'll tell you the best answer I ever got after years of asking was, "it was either that or you would have died, i did it to save your life". According to my parent this is the conversation end all. It's the ultimate righteous act that once attempted, can never receive criticism no matter the result. You know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Or course in my own head I know that I wasn't about to die, so it doesn't make any sense to me. It's all a matter of perception, in the case of my parent, a perversely skewed perspective. It's like that old horror story where you go into the hospital for stitches, and leave without your appendix, and the best explanation you get is, well sorry buddy, we save lives.

[exhausted]

I asked the wrong person then because you seem to be a normal caring parent.

I'll tell you the best answer I ever got after years of asking was, "it was either that or you would have died, i did it to save your life". According to my parent this is the conversation end all. It's the ultimate righteous act that once attempted, can never receive criticism no matter the result. You know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Or course in my own head I know that I wasn't about to die, so it doesn't make any sense to me. It's all a matter of perception, in the case of my parent, a perversely skewed perspective. It's like that old horror story where you go into the hospital for stitches, and leave without your appendix, and the best explanation you get is, well sorry buddy, we save lives.

Your parents know you aren't lying about what happened and they feel guilt, they just aren't ready to admit it yet, not to themselves or anyone else....I ask my mother all the time why didn't she care enough to pull the reins in on me, she denies it because she still doesn't care enough to let me have some sort of closure, I don't want to slate your parents because I dont know how you were or what was going on in their heads at the time, but you must try to deal with the fact you may NEVER get an answer, they may never admit this to themselves because it's too painful

One day my own kids may resent me because I refuse to send them to 'straighten up' I don't know, all i can do is try, try and try again

No Dr Evil it doesn't change my mind because I am determined to do this as a family, and now I also know how bad it can be - but none of you will ever get me to slate the parents who genuinely send their kids away because they believe it's a choice between life & death, I have to defend them on this.

[Anonymous]

The only reason my father (one parent family) thought it was a life or death situation, was because he didn't know me. He was into dating his girls and hanging out with their kids (don't ask me why) maybe he got bored with us, but for whatever reason he wasn't around my teenage years. He knew me as the teen he wanted me to be, not for who I was. The reason so many parents freak out at the first sign of trouble, is because they have no clue what is really going on in their teenager's life. What they believe is a matter of life and death, is just tuesday, for their teen. Is this negligence and overreaction, or simply ignorance? I think it's more complicated than some parents would want others to believe.

[exhausted]

I think that depends on what the teen is doing, if you've got a 13 yo smoking a bit of pot and being rude, you've got a naughty but normal kid, if you've got a 9 yo carrying a knife and shooting up heroin, you have a life or death situation that you as a parent are not qualified to deal with

I'm sorry you feel your dad didn't take enough notice of you to actually know you as a person - my mum didn't either, luckily she was too lazy to send me to a program she was that uninterested!

[Anonymous]

Guest, programme paremnts don't do it to their kids, the programs do, the parents sendd their kids away because they realy believe their kid will die in a horrific way if they don't take action, Milk is right that it doesn't make it right, but I certainly wouldn't slate anyone for trying to do whatever it takes to save their kid when they really really believe they are in danger...

Exhausted, the intentional abuse factor varies from (parental) unit to unit. The logic in inescapable.

There are some parents that desperately need a good kick in the head with a steel-toed boot. It's the 'rents that supply these places with what they need most in order to stay in operation -- MONEY!!

Soon, if I have my way, ignorance will no longer be an excuse and there will be horrible consequences dealt out & the blood of parental unit after unit will be spilled. Their kids will be standing there with knives and big ol' grins on their faces. Parents, your time has come. :skull:

I couldn't agree more; you're dead on! Ignorance should no longer be used as a defense! Parents who pay to have their kids abused deserve to die! Enough said!

Mmm, I didn't realize there were guys like this on this forum. Just don't tell me you boys are all talk and no action.

[psy]

I asked the wrong person then because you seem to be a normal caring parent.

I'll tell you the best answer I ever got after years of asking was, "it was either that or you would have died, i did it to save your life". According to my parent this is the conversation end all. It's the ultimate righteous act that once attempted, can never receive criticism no matter the result. You know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Can you imagine the guilt they would feel if they acknowledged the truth.  Might it be too painful for them.  Might they be protecting their psyche on some level?  Imagine realizing that "I sent my kid off to be abused".

Or course in my own head I know that I wasn't about to die, so it doesn't make any sense to me. It's all a matter of perception, in the case of my parent, a perversely skewed perspective.

And who did the skewing?  Put blame on the ed-cons and the program.  As many kids as parents are used as "testimonials"/"sucess stories" on programmie websites.  Nobody is invulnerable to brainwashing.

[Anonymous]

And who did the skewing? Put blame on the ed-cons and the program. As many kids as parents are used as "testimonials"/"sucess stories" on programmie websites. Nobody is invulnerable to brainwashing.

Before a program, I blame AA, and my mom's alcoholism for turning my dad into a alanon AA fundamentalist before I could walk. It goes way back with him.  :-?  :cry:  :rofl:

[Nihilanthic]

THERE IS STILL NO EXCUSE TO REMAIN WILLINGLY IGNORANT OF WHAT IS DONE TO YOUR CHILD IN A PROGRAM!

 :flame:

THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO BUY INTO THEIR NONSENSE SAYING YOU MSUT STAY IGNORANT OF WHAT THEY DO, AND TO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOUR CHILD SAYS, AND TO VISIT WHEN THEY SAY SO!

PERIOD. THAT IS NEGLIGENCE!

There is also no excuse to not use google to check on these places if you find them on the internet in the first place, but oh well.

Scaring a parent into "we must help or they die" is one thing, scaring them into "We can't let you know what goes on, and as a matter of fact you can't even talk to your kid or believe them when they're allowed to speak to you" is completely different. There is a huge distinction.

If you have a kid in a program and you don't know, find the fuck out, or get your child out until you do. If you WERE fooled but now pulled your kid out, its time to get some therapy for the kid, time to do something about these places and sue them, go to the media, and go to ISAC, and its time to admit you messed up  and start doing what you need to do...

...and thats all I have left to say on this subject.

[psy]

Scaring a parent into "we must help or they die" is one thing, scaring them into "We can't let you know what goes on, and as a matter of fact you can't even talk to your kid or believe them when they're allowed to speak to you" is completely different. There is a huge distinction.

Is it really?  They've had a long time to rehearse.  Here's what they say:  "The first month we call the "honeymoon period" where the kids are just getting used to the program.  Let's be honest, not many of the kids really want to be here, and they'll say anything to get out.  You know how manipulative they can be.  So here's what we do, we teach them that they have to earn everything.  Many parents spoil their kids and that's what often gets them in this situation.  We teach them that everything must be earned.  If they are good, and following their program, they get to make a phone call, if not, you can get updates through his councelor.  At any time you can mail them though, but I must warn you, many kids are bitter about being in program , and as a result often neglect to respond for a while."

you get the point.  They have a good reason for everything and it all sounds plausible.  With the hollowed out program kids chanting "we love this place", the smiling kids in the brochures, and the re-assuring staff, parents feel at ease.  These people are expert expert cons.  If they weren't so good, this industry would have tanked long ago.  They make their living lying to parents, and they get to rehearse the same shtick every single day.

If you have a kid in a program and you don't know, find the fuck out, or get your child out until you do. If you WERE fooled but now pulled your kid out, its time to get some therapy for the kid, time to do something about these places and sue them, go to the media, and go to ISAC, and its time to admit you messed up

And how would that look for future employers.  That was my parent's concern when I wanted to go public initially.  "fucked up program reject" is what they would think.  Just ask "Lunatic fringe" what happens to her when the judge finds out she was in Str8.  Everybody believes the program.  After all, they're professionals.

[Anonymous]

And how would that look for future employers. That was my parent's concern when I wanted to go public initially. "fucked up program reject" is what they would think. Just ask "Lunatic fringe" what happens to her when the judge finds out she was in Str8. Everybody believes the program. After all, they're professionals.

Yeah, str8's not something you want to put on your resumé.

What happened??

[Nihilanthic]

For one they're not professionals. Nobody had any credentials.

For two, Straight was CLOSED...??

For three, there is no Dx made by a doctor anywhere, so if they say that with no diagnosis and no credentials and no PhD (or even a masters...) any decent lawyer would poke holes in that.

Nevertheless, when I asked my own parents and my family members, they said they'd never fall for someone trying to cut off communication. I know at least some of them are cunning and distrustful eough to know better, but I guess some do get sucked in.

At any rate, if your kid is getting treated for depression, ADD, or whatever, why the fucking hell would you need to go through the "do anything to get out" thing anyway? Where the hell did that entire paradigm of "something necessary is painful and hard and anything hard and painful is necessary" come from anyway?

Ugh... there I go being logical again with my 20/20 "hindsight". I guess education is the only answer.

Regardless, anyone who comes HERE has no excuse, having seen what programs do to the kids, the staff, the parents, having links provided to all of the facts available, and being told point blank to get through the program bullshit and find out for themselves.