The current "My teen wont forgive me" thread on ST

[Anonymous]

People know, they just don't care. Add it to the list of atrocities they hear about daily from Anderson Cooper reporting live from the scene, Tragedy has become a new form of entertainment. If we are using a global scale, the going ons at American teen programs most likely ranks very low on people's give-a-shit meter.

[psy]

You haven't validated your claim. I on the other hand have provided a link that shows the reported incidence rate of child abuse to be higher in the UK than in the USA.

While the studies are out of date, and I am somewhat skeptical of such studies anyway, it is interesting that it is posted on a UK goverment website. The information still shows that child abuse rates are higher elsewhere in the world.  Obviously they didn't survey Arkansas.

If you carefully read my posts you will see that I already acknowledged that private torture centers aren't quite the problem in the UK. I also clearly on two different occasions stated, very clearly, that the problem exists in the public institutions.

I'm not talking about child abuse in general.  I'm talking about institutionalized child abuse (ie. programs and their ilk).

I know that child sexual abuse in general is higher than it is in the US in a lot of places including Europe, but it's an overall statistic and there is no concentrated pocket of abuse to go after.  Here, on the other hand, we have programs.  It's an easy target to go after.  Now if you could find something resembling wwasp or CEDU in the UK(public institutions included), i'd be impressed.

And to guest:  No people don't know.  Americans tend to care about things when it's in their back yard.  Example:  One white girl goes missing: there's a multi-state manhunt, flier campaigns, etc etc etc...  Jon Benet Ramsey all frigging summer long.  Black boys and girls being massacred on a daily basis in Dubai and it lasts all of five minutes on cnn.  There are over 300,000 kids (not a typo) living on the streets and sewers of Romania and nobody gives a shit about them.  Why?  Because it isn't in our back yard.  It isn't embarrassing enough to US.

Programs are, and thus if they are exposed to the public at large, can easily become a sensational enough issue to gather national attention.  Yes you're right, sensationalism is the key.  However, the cruel reality is that people in general only care about atrocities if they're in their country.

[Oz girl]

I dont think that anyone is naive enough to think that child abuse within state care or the home is a problem unique to the USA. Just look at the Stolen Children reports  which look at the history of Abuse of Aboriginal children in State care. Most countries including Australia have now recognised that Abuse flourishes in a closed environment where kids are cut off from the outside world and have moved toward the foster home model. This is why the tough love industry is so dangerous. Foster care may not be without it's issues but i can see the rationale for it over orphanges.

There is also  mandatory reporting in most Australian states which means that any Doctor, social worker or school teacher must report any suspected instance of child abuse. Hence Natcam's report. It is appalling  that so many instances are reported but at the very least there is an outside chance that potential abuses in Oz might get looked into by someone with authority. Uniform mandatory reporting has dramtically increased the instances of abuse being reported in Australia in recent years and highlighted the issue. This to my mind is a good thing.

Australia's conservative federal govt wants to abolish this system as it believes that various child welfare depts become overburdened with frivolous claims which turn out to be false. Leftist and cynics argue that this is both a way to justify less funding for child protection and a way to deny that Australia really has any child abuse issues. For this reason i hope MR is here to stay.


The key difference between the US and its other western counterparts is that it seems that in the US private for profit institutions currently have a hell of a lot of leeway to do what they want with kids and parents can also decide to send a kid to a place which may be abusive. It seems that the rest of the world is now moving away from the idea that private schools and institutions are above the law. Moreover there seems to be a perception both within America and outside of it, that American kids are far more out of control and likely to fall through the cracks without tough love than their counterparts. This is not necessarily accurate.


I also do not know of many Private schools in non US countries which are for profit. Are there any countires which have this tradition? Is it even a US tradition or did it just come about with BM facilities and RTCs?

IMO most regualar Private schools everywhere are a way to create and bolster the establishment in the same way that normal non crazy US boarding schools are and therefore put their money into facilities for the kids they educate so that the kid leaves with a born to rule mentality. This is why so many private schools have those pompous "famous old boy/girl" lists on their websites.

American BM schools in contrast profit from their students and actively encourage the idea that the kid is a fuck up who would be nothing without them. Both America and other countries should therefore be as critical of this as possible. This does not mean people are blind to the problems in their own backyard.

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/social_justice/ ... index.html

http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/bib/mandatory.html

Does the US have mandatory reporting? Did the rate of abuse being reported increase when it was introduced?

[psy]

I implore you to learn how to read. I never claimed the issue with the UK was a WWASP or a CEDU like organization. The problems in the UK exist in the public facilities.

ME learn how to read.  I said "public institutions included".  GAAAH.  i never claimed sexual abuse was higher in the US either.  I explicitly said the opposite.  REREAD my post dammit.  I expect lots of these next --> ops:  ops:  ops:  ops:

[Oz girl]

settle down boys. Settle down. This is turning into a pissing contest

[Anonymous]

The US is five times as populated as the UK, and 15 times the population of Australia.

If you are going to do some comparisons, make them fair. The US is much closer to the size of the entire EU than it is to the population of the UK. Australia has the same amount of people as New York state, my home state of California has 14 million more people than Australia.

Why do we hear so much US related shit on the net?

United States ? Internet Users: 159 Million (2002)
United Kingdom ? Internet Users: 25 Million (2002)
Australia ? Internet Users: 9,472,000

Maybe that has something to do with it.

[Anonymous]

You know, assholes, there was an actual topic here about two dozen posts ago.

Hey ST poster! You still reading this? You got off that crap forum and called a real professional yet?

[psy]

Oh don't so full of shit Oz Girl. You know I was laughing my ass off about it earlier on Yahoo messenger when I was nattering with you.

Psy is alright in my book. I only bust balls of people I can stand. The rest I tend to ignore these days or concoct ludicrious ploys to troll them.

Mind you psy.. I think you will find that I tend to change sides on most issues to suit my own entertainment needs.

Except about the French.. fuckers.

I suspected as much.  I was laughing my ass off as well actually as the thread kept going on and on and on.

Milk does have a point though.  There was an ST poster reading this at some point.  I doubt he took our suggestions though.

[Anonymous]

Have you read "exhausted"'s posts? She sure seems to be at a loss about what to do with her kids over there in the UK. I often get the sense that she's really hoping some program will offer to take all three of her kids on scholarship or recruit them for the next Brat Camp UK series.
Aspen has a fat farm there. While "parent choice" incarceration may not be propular with the Brits, they might consider weight loss camp okay. Little would they know it's not any different than any other program, just a different problem to "fix".
While Brits may not be ready for the industry, Aspen etal are slowly working on changing the public attitude toward private pay incarceration.

Sorry about the quote thing, i press quote and expect it to do just that so bear with me...

yes read exhausted's posts, Exhausted has had every door slammed in HER face by every agency in the UK, Exhausted is one of the very rare parents who actually care if her kids turn intop muggers, criminals etc, Exhausted is desperate to get a mental health assessment because she is terrified her son is really ill, Exhausted spent 8 years fighting to get an ADHD assessment which incidentally came back positive within 10 minutes of being in the room

Exhausted does not want to see her children in priosn, she did not bring her children into the world for that, she wants ONE thing for them, Happiness, and at the admission of all 3 boys, they are NOT happy - so sit back & think what I've done wrong, what's not working? I don't think so, I have tried everything there is, EVERYTHING! There is no system in place in the UK to help teens who are really struggling, there is no help for the parents, all there is, is 'wait until they do something and we can slap an ASBO on them' something they wear with pride as it goes - what do you suggest I do? Not ground them? Not punish them? Yep that'll be a sure way to make them grow into adults who can't follow rules or realise there are consequences - you know the little rules of life that help one to hold down a normal thing like a job!

Exhausted has no family, and is very much alone in the world, she also has a successful child who does very well in life, so what is it that Exhausted has done wrong, why isn't it working when all 4 children were brought up exactly the same way??

Get to see a Psychiatrist LOL!!!!! It can only be done through GP referal, the GP has absolutely refused over & over to make the referal so that's a no go - and there is no way I can afford to go private, not a hope in hell.

Exhausted was dragged through the children's home & care system most of her childhood, believe me those places weren't pleasant, but I was safe, safe from the constant mental abuse and trauma suffered when living at home, I should never have been allowed to go back to the lunatic mother & I may have stood half a chance in life!

I am a genuine poster, I have been the kid who was taken away, I was the kid who saw more therapists than you've had hot dinners, death, destruction, violence, alcohol & drug abuse was a daily part of what i saw, it wasn't good and I don't condone putting any child away unless it is a last resort after things are so out of control that the child is unsafe, as was in my case

Deborah, Aspen offered to take my son via e mail!! I immediately said NO way! I would never send him across the pond knowing I was unable to visit or not know what was going on with him, it was not an option, so your theory is way out of line, all i want is some help to bring my family back together and put an end to my children's miserable existene=ces and ensure a bright, healthy & happy future, I want that to happen by us working together as a family, not by sending the boys off in all different directions, you don't know me so don't chat shit about what I think or feel ok?

And Exhausted's partner died when the baby was 2 months old, hope that answers what you wanted to know!

[Anonymous]

Talking about yourself in the third person isn't going to help. You even switch between third and first halfway through your post. It's hopeless.

I have tried everything there is, EVERYTHING!

Except things that might, well, work.

what do you suggest I do? Not ground them? Not punish them?

Exactly what I suggest.

Haven't you made it very clear that they're not actually being grounded or punished, as it is, right now? I mean if all they have to look forward to at home is you trying to impose "consequences" on them, and the alternative to that is simply going out with their friends all night and ignoring what you might want, what do you think they're going to do?

Don't you understand this by now? They don't have to listen to you, and they're not.  Anything you do with them in the future should reflect this simple fact.

there is no way I can afford to go private, not a hope in hell.

I would never send him across the pond knowing I was unable to visit or not know what was going on with him,

And the money had nothing to do with that? You're telling me that you can afford to send them to some shitpit, but can't afford a real shrink outside of NHS? How can the latter be more expensive than the former?

put an end to my children's miserable existene=ces

If I used that turn of phrase, it could only mean one thing, so I'm calling Freud on this one.

By the way, if every member of "the system" is treating you as if you're insane, there might be a reason for this.

[psy]

Have you read "exhausted"'s posts? She sure seems to be at a loss about what to do with her kids over there in the UK. I often get the sense that she's really hoping some program will offer to take all three of her kids on scholarship or recruit them for the next Brat Camp UK series.
Aspen has a fat farm there. While "parent choice" incarceration may not be propular with the Brits, they might consider weight loss camp okay. Little would they know it's not any different than any other program, just a different problem to "fix".
While Brits may not be ready for the industry, Aspen etal are slowly working on changing the public attitude toward private pay incarceration.

Sorry about the quote thing, i press quote and expect it to do just that so bear with me...

yes read exhausted's posts, Exhausted has had every door slammed in HER face by every agency in the UK, Exhausted is one of the very rare parents who actually care if her kids turn intop muggers, criminals etc, Exhausted is desperate to get a mental health assessment because she is terrified her son is really ill, Exhausted spent 8 years fighting to get an ADHD assessment which incidentally came back positive within 10 minutes of being in the room

Exhausted does not want to see her children in priosn, she did not bring her children into the world for that, she wants ONE thing for them, Happiness, and at the admission of all 3 boys, they are NOT happy - so sit back & think what I've done wrong, what's not working? I don't think so, I have tried everything there is, EVERYTHING! There is no system in place in the UK to help teens who are really struggling, there is no help for the parents, all there is, is 'wait until they do something and we can slap an ASBO on them' something they wear with pride as it goes - what do you suggest I do? Not ground them? Not punish them?

No.  I suggest those things might be appropriate if they misbehave.

Yep that'll be a sure way to make them grow into adults who can't follow rules or realise there are consequences - you know the little rules of life that help one to hold down a normal thing like a job!

Exhausted has no family, and is very much alone in the world, she also has a successful child who does very well in life, so what is it that Exhausted has done wrong, why isn't it working when all 4 children were brought up exactly the same way??

There are no guarantees in parenting.  You can do all the right things and still have kids that misbehave and raise general mayhem.  Later in life, the effects of your good parenting will show up in them.  It's normal for kids to misbehave in the teen years, and drinking is culturally far more common in the UK than it is in the states.

Get to see a Psychiatrist LOL!!!!! It can only be done through GP referal, the GP has absolutely refused over & over to make the referal so that's a no go - and there is no way I can afford to go private, not a hope in hell.

Yes that is one part of your system that is messed up over there (the GP referrals) but at least you have free health care at all.  If a shrink won't help perhaps a social worker could make some suggestions.

here is a list of common suggestions from IECA.

Exhausted was dragged through the children's home & care system most of her childhood, believe me those places weren't pleasant, but I was safe, safe from the constant mental abuse and trauma suffered when living at home, I should never have been allowed to go back to the lunatic mother & I may have stood half a chance in life!

I am a genuine poster, I have been the kid who was taken away, I was the kid who saw more therapists than you've had hot dinners, death, destruction, violence, alcohol & drug abuse was a daily part of what i saw, it wasn't good and I don't condone putting any child away unless it is a last resort after things are so out of control that the child is unsafe, as was in my case

Deborah, Aspen offered to take my son via e mail!! I immediately said NO way! I would never send him across the pond knowing I was unable to visit or not know what was going on with him, it was not an option, so your theory is way out of line, all i want is some help to bring my family back together and put an end to my children's miserable existene=ces and ensure a bright, healthy & happy future, I want that to happen by us working together as a family, not by sending the boys off in all different directions, you don't know me so don't chat shit about what I think or feel ok?

And Exhausted's partner died when the baby was 2 months old, hope that answers what you wanted to know!

Ok.  I realize your want a happy and bright future for your kids, but the faster you realize programs will never be able to magically sell you that, the better you will be in the long run.  Parenting can be tough and kids can/will be little monsters.

Just realize, that in the long run, things will turn out fine if you work with your kids, tell them you love them, and ask them how you can help them.  You cannot force them to "help themselves" like program says.  They need to want to change.  You cannot make them.  Until then all you can do is support them and love them.  Generally, I find you get what you give.  Find alternatives to program.

Subcontracting brainwashing is not an option.  And yes that is exactly what happens in program.

[Anonymous]

here is another interesting study about child abuse. The information seems out of date, but it is rather insightful:

http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow


My point here is this:

Child abuse isn't the sole creation of the United States of America. George Bush Jr. isn't head of some world plot to export and franchise WWASP all over the god damn world. If some crazy broad in the UK wants to ship her kid off to a teen torture center in the USA then more power to her.

I don't give damn if she does or doesn't.

If she can't get her head far enough out of her ass to find a place to abuse her kid in the UK then we here in the USA will be happy to deliver for her.

We saved their asses in two world wars I am sure we can save this lady's ass in her desire to have her child beaten like damn Alabama huntin' dog.

To this anon lady.. If you really really want to have your kid beaten and abused you  go ahead and PM me.

I know a really fucked up place that doesn't even get mentioned here on Fornits but every once in a blue moon. I'll give you the details you need so that you can get your kid so beaten black and blue he will shit bruises for a month.

I'll PM you as & when I can register, am waiting for validation

I don't need to send any of my boys away to have them driven away and the crap scared out of them, I know people who would do it for me - fact is it's not what I want

I'm not some 'crazy broad' I'm a very intelligent person, coping with a hell of alot, with both issues from my own past & the terrible fear that my own kids are going down some truly horrible path

However i do understand why some parents are that desperate to stop their kids abusing themselves that they will go to these lengths, I'm sure you'll find they have all tried everything else possible - be sure to tell me where this place is just in case I need to contact them though ;-)

[psy]

You have to forgive Milk.  He posts what everybody else is secretly thinking.

[psy]

here is another interesting study about child abuse. The information seems out of date, but it is rather insightful:

http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow


My point here is this:

Child abuse isn't the sole creation of the United States of America. George Bush Jr. isn't head of some world plot to export and franchise WWASP all over the god damn world. If some crazy broad in the UK wants to ship her kid off to a teen torture center in the USA then more power to her.

I don't give damn if she does or doesn't.

If she can't get her head far enough out of her ass to find a place to abuse her kid in the UK then we here in the USA will be happy to deliver for her.

We saved their asses in two world wars I am sure we can save this lady's ass in her desire to have her child beaten like damn Alabama huntin' dog.

To this anon lady.. If you really really want to have your kid beaten and abused you  go ahead and PM me.

I know a really fucked up place that doesn't even get mentioned here on Fornits but every once in a blue moon. I'll give you the details you need so that you can get your kid so beaten black and blue he will shit bruises for a month.

I'll PM you as & when I can register, am waiting for validation

I don't need to send any of my boys away to have them driven away and the crap scared out of them, I know people who would do it for me - fact is it's not what I want

I'm not some 'crazy broad' I'm a very intelligent person, coping with a hell of alot, with both issues from my own past & the terrible fear that my own kids are going down some truly horrible path

However i do understand why some parents are that desperate to stop their kids abusing themselves that they will go to these lengths, I'm sure you'll find they have all tried everything else possible - be sure to tell me where this place is just in case I need to contact them though ;-)

Well it's good you don't want to send them away.  Your kids will appreciate that in the long run.  It seams you are coping with fear.  Fear that your kids will go down a miserable path and their heads will explode and they will be dead or insane or in jail.  You were posting on ST.  What exactly did  you expect?  That site's whole purpose is to scare the shit out of parents so they will think they need program.  No matter what your kid's problem is, they will always need program on that site.  You do realize the whole industry, from Ed consultants to the schools themselves are completely unregulated in most states.

What have your kids been up to exactly?

[Anonymous]

Every member of the system treats me as if I'm insane for daring to ask them to do their jobs! It's not exactly a hidden secret here in the UK, our social services are rubbish, they aren't interested unless you are beating your kid to death, and even then they don't help you, they just prosecute (actually I am with the prosecution thing) But hey.....when a parent has spent years & years begging, pleading, threatening, blackmailing just to get a simple statement done and each time a file is opened, no-one calls or visits and the file is then closed again, you tell me, is it me or them? Have you any idea how exhausted I really am? I deal with daily life and the police, the school, the suspensions, the complaining neighbours, the irate victims on the doorstep threatening me, every single day of my life, quite often several times a day....yes this part of it is about me! I can't be a good parent all the time I have been awake most the night because they have misbehaved in soje way or won't come in, or won't sleep - it has absolutely nothing to do with the way I am towards them when they are here, I have tried arranging nights out, nights in, family evenings, but hell no, they'd rather be on the streets comitting crime and getting stoned/drunk, I can't believe the mentality that goes behind 'always blame the parents' just sometimes, we do everything we can and still get it slapped back in our faces

I am just a genuine mother who really does want the best for her kids, both now & in the future, and I am reaching out for help on the internet because there is nothing in the way of support here

Think what you like, you're going to anyway and I have a skin as thick as a rhino

Sorry about the typo's, am sitting in the dark