my expierience

[Anonymous]

And what of the students who are forced to leave, despite being willing to be tortured some more?  Is getting rid of the undesirables Hyde's way of trying to stack the stats in their favor?

[Anonymous]

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

I think you're right.  Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed.  They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers.  Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:

1.  What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2.  How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3.  What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde?  10th grade?  11th grade?  12th grade?  That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4.  What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college?  How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5.  When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample?  Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)?  Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled?  How honest is Hyde about the data they report?

This is one of the best posts I have seen.  On another post Billy Procida says that no school is going to post the negative.  This is true Billy, but it is one thing not to post negatives and another thing to lie on your PR material in order to entice families to join!

I think that many of us would stop questioning Hyde if they would simply answer the above questions.  How can you stand for truth in one sense and not in another?  Read this post carefully Billy and then ask these questions to your Superiors.  Guarantee you they will not answer them. Why?  Because the truth would not set them free, it would put them out of business!!!@!@!@!!@!!!

[Anonymous]

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

I think you're right.  Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed.  They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers.  Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:

1.  What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2.  How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3.  What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde?  10th grade?  11th grade?  12th grade?  That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4.  What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college?  How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5.  When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample?  Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)?  Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled?  How honest is Hyde about the data they report?

Bill: It seems clear that several of us who are posting here would love to hear the answers to the above questions.  Here's my request: Would you please share these questions with Hyde administrators and let us know the answers?  If they're willing to give you accurate responses, that would be great.  

However, if Hyde's administrators are not willing to give you this information, I hope you will ask them why.  Also, I hope you will report here on whichever response you get.  

Hyde claims to believe in truth.  Let's see if they're willing to honor that principle.

[Antigen]

Ok, leme try and crank this up a few notches.

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

3) Hyde is part of a government subsidized long term program along with the Seed/Straight, the CEDU programs, Elan, Phoenix House, Bob Mehan's programs and those creepy Kentucky and Tennessee and Florida prison and JDC programs. It's very well documented, tweaked and adjusted over the years, extremely effective in it's aims. Just that neither we nor the program operators are privy to the objectives or the data.

[Ursus]

Ok, leme try and crank this up a few notches.

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

3) Hyde is part of a government subsidized long term program along with the Seed/Straight, the CEDU programs, Elan, Phoenix House, Bob Mehan's programs and those creepy Kentucky and Tennessee and Florida prison and JDC programs. It's very well documented, tweaked and adjusted over the years, extremely effective in it's aims. Just that neither we nor the program operators are privy to the objectives or the data.

OOOOOooooo... government conspiracy!  Love it.  And yes, much of this would fall under that.  Kind of like what was going on in the 60's vis-a-vis the Vietnam War.  But I think consideration of that is probably beyond what most of us are dealing with here at the moment.

[Anonymous]

Ok, leme try and crank this up a few notches.

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

3) Hyde is part of a government subsidized long term program along with the Seed/Straight, the CEDU programs, Elan, Phoenix House, Bob Mehan's programs and those creepy Kentucky and Tennessee and Florida prison and JDC programs. It's very well documented, tweaked and adjusted over the years, extremely effective in it's aims. Just that neither we nor the program operators are privy to the objectives or the data.

  I have a jukebox in my mind and I am hearing Camper Van Beethoven song:  "this here is a government experiment."

 I would add the "i"  to your regex so you will match Coercion.

 if ($_ ~= /coercion/i)
 {
    print("fuck off n");
    return undef;
 }

Larry Wall

[Antigen]

 I have a jukebox in my mind and I am hearing Camper Van Beethoven song:  "this here is a government experiment."

 I would add the "i"  to your regex so you will match Coercion.

 if ($_ ~= /coercion/i)
 {
    print("fuck off n");
    return undef;
 }

Larry Wall

Really? I wonder if I have that one.

Shit, fuck! Wandering i? Oh well, I'll go fix that shortly.

[Antigen]

OOOOOooooo... government conspiracy!  Love it.  And yes, much of this would fall under that.  Kind of like what was going on in the 60's vis-a-vis the Vietnam War.  But I think consideration of that is probably beyond what most of us are dealing with here at the moment.

Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn?t mean politics won?t take an interest in you!
- Pericles (430 B.C.)

[Anonymous]

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

I think you're right.  Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed.  They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers.  Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:

1.  What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2.  How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3.  What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde?  10th grade?  11th grade?  12th grade?  That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4.  What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college?  How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5.  When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample?  Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)?  Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled?  How honest is Hyde about the data they report?

Bill: It seems clear that several of us who are posting here would love to hear the answers to the above questions.  Here's my request: Would you please share these questions with Hyde administrators and let us know the answers?  If they're willing to give you accurate responses, that would be great.  

However, if Hyde's administrators are not willing to give you this information, I hope you will ask them why.  Also, I hope you will report here on whichever response you get.  

Hyde claims to believe in truth.  Let's see if they're willing to honor that principle.

[Ursus]

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

All of the above.  And more.  Cults need money to survive.  It's a shill game and an AmWay/Landmark Ed/Lifespring processing plant under the nebulous rubric of "character education."  Fine words, no connection to the reality of it.  And all too many lives damaged, destroyed, and perhaps even lost, along the way.

Sure, some people actually think it helped them.  If every single Moonie or est graduate or Ramtha fanatic was unhappy with their lot, these operations would no longer be sucking in the bucks.  And, as anyone with even a smidgen of understanding of statistics knows, if you've got an exam with a-b-c option answers, and you just check the same box for each, you'll be scoring 33%.  Seems to me, Hyde scores far lower than that.

[Anonymous]

Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years.  In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result.  Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence  in the form of graduate/parent testimonials.   These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.

Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money

Pick one

All of the above.  And more.  Cults need money to survive.  It's a shill game and an AmWay/Landmark Ed/Lifespring processing plant under the nebulous rubric of "character education."  Fine words, no connection to the reality of it.  And all too many lives damaged, destroyed, and perhaps even lost, along the way.

Sure, some people actually think it helped them.  If every single Moonie or est graduate or Ramtha fanatic was unhappy with their lot, these operations would no longer be sucking in the bucks.  And, as anyone with even a smidgen of understanding of statistics knows, if you've got an exam with a-b-c option answers, and you just check the same box for each, you'll be scoring 33%.  Seems to me, Hyde scores far lower than that.

I am disappointed that Billy has not responded to this request.

If Hyde is so successful on their own, then why are parents asked constantly to have "get togethers" at their homes to try and bring in more people suckers.  This for sure smells of a cult who tries to recruit!  My regional group was asked by Hyde on a regular basis to please have "teas" in order to find prospective parents and talk them into sending their kids to Hyde.  Now Hyde is so desperate they are asking the public to get involved and come to Hyde events even if they don't have a school aged child.  I suppose Joe Gauld's arrogance is reaching out further believing he can cure all!

[Anonymous]

In order for the school to operate in the black there needs to be a certain amount of students enrolled.  After graduation, it's nessesary to fill those spots with new students,m preferably Freshmen.  Hyde's student/family body is supported through educational consultants, guidance counselors, and, most of all, by word of mouth. The "Tea" approach has been used for years as a why "To replace thyself".
It's not a way to overload the program and even though a higher percentage of candidates are excepted, there are a lot that are not.  The school will give most families a chance to make it at the school, but there are some families and/or students and/or parents that are not ready for the program.  Believe it or not there are quite a few families told to go try somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

In order for the school to operate in the black there needs to be a certain amount of students enrolled.  After graduation, it's nessesary to fill those spots with new students,m preferably Freshmen.  Hyde's student/family body is supported through educational consultants, guidance counselors, and, most of all, by word of mouth. The "Tea" approach has been used for years as a why "To replace thyself".
It's not a way to overload the program and even though a higher percentage of candidates are excepted, there are a lot that are not.  The school will give most families a chance to make it at the school, but there are some families and/or students and/or parents that are not ready for the program.  Believe it or not there are quite a few families told to go try somewhere else.

Boy are you naive!  The very good local private schools in my area do not have to have any informal gatherings to recruit candidates. Hyde does because Hyde is trying to find prospective families.  This would mean that the guidance counselors, and ed consultants are obviously not sending enough kids Hyde's way!

Some students and families that are not ready for the program?  You got that one right!!  It is a "program", not a school and many of those families you talk about see that Hyde is a Cult and run as fast as they can.  Does Hyde offer money back to those that "don't make it?"  Hell no!  This is how they make their money, and it is too costly for most families to go after them legally.

I do encourage any families who have been taken advantage of this way to hire an attorney and sue to get your money back including attorney's fees.  Hyde does not want their name publicly displayed as someone who has been sued.  They always settle which is why you don't see their name in any public dockets.,

[Anonymous]

Believe it or not there are quite a few families told to go try somewhere else.

Oh sure I believe it  ... the families with no money.  I am sure that is how Phillips and St Pauls work  ... teas.    It the true making you miserable yet?

[Anonymous]

The Phillips Schools and St. Paul's don't have admission teas because the kids and families are waiting in line to attend.  Do you think if they drop out of one of those schools they will be refunded their tuition...NO WAY!  Many prep schools make their students sign a contract upon entering their school as a Freshman stating that they will attend that school until graduation.  If you pull out before, you're responsible for the tuition through their senior year whether you're there or not.
Hyde holds Teas to educate and offer options to students and families who have no where to turn.  Tuition is not refunded only in some circumstances, where families pull out for no reason.  They've signed a contract that lays all that out.  If a student can't cut it or is a distraction to the rest of the school, they'll get their money back on a pro-rated basis.  The people on this site bitching about the lack of tuition refund are those who left because they didn't want to do the work. Hyde is a school and a program.  It's not a traditional prep school and dosen't claim to be and it's not a therapy school and doesn't claim to be.  It's a little of both for kids and families who aren't too "off track".
I guarantee that the "Tri-State" whiney, baby-boomer attitude is behind many of the complaints you read about on fornits.  Incluing Ass-Kow's passive aggressive rants and offers.