Author Topic: Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys  (Read 8717 times)

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Offline Christopher Riner

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2004, 05:13:00 PM »
I really need to start remembering to log in....
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Offline Timoclea

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2004, 10:19:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-20 14:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Your ideas definitely sound negotiable.  Is stockholm syndrome like an isolation-induced medical condition?  If it is, then that would probably have a good chance of holding up in court if you want to have the mail policies changed.  These rights' cases can carry a pretty fuzzy line between the two parties, though.  If they were to approve of that, then would that make parents unable to stop there kids from barring phone calls at home, who had nothing to do with the program?  My personal experience with mail in the program wasn't EXTREMELY frustrating, but then again my parents would send mail out to most of my friends, when I would send it to them.  I don't know much about S.S., but if I were to assume, I would think that as long as the kids have SOME communication, they would not have a strong enough sense of isolation to really be in any danger.  Maybe there could be a standard for a set amount of minimum contacts- whatever can be proven to be safe or whatever.  The idea of controlled mail does serve a good purpose- as a parent, I am sure that you understand the influence that other kids have on one another.  I think more phone calls w/ parents would definitely be nothing but instrumental for the children.  I still believe they shouldn't be with held from the student having to work for them, but perhaps maybe not quite so much.  I didn't speak to my parents on the phone until my 5th month day in the program, and after that, I never felt like I was quite as distant or disconnected with them (costa rica definitely feels like its another planet away).    

Other than that, I agree a lot with what you say about haing social services very involved, and having random visits every month or so.  They did have Costa Rican child welfare services (PANI?) come by with random visits, but it never really settled everyone's suspicion- they never found enough to shut it down (until whatever happened with the riots there).  They always thought that the school would just put on an act  for a day or something.  A big factor is how comfortable the parents are with their kid across the country/world:  I think a closer relationship between officials and the schools would really be able to help parents rest easy- as well as keep fishy things from going on.  But no matter how many visits/checkups to the school, there will still be small margins which will allow large amounts of suspicion to form.  I think the best way to handle that situation would be to have at least one (government) official on grounds at all times.



oh yeah, you didn't mention what program you were in :???: "


It only takes three days to induce Stockholm Syndrome.  I understand the concerns about influence of peers, but allowing mail is the *least* intrusive way to neutralize one of the preconditions for induction of the syndrome.

I wasn't in a program.  I could have been.  I would have had no rights, and placement in a program probably would have killed me.  I have bipolar II disorder, which (last time I checked) has the distinction of being the mental illness most likely to end in suicide.  Fortunately, I respond well to medication, but I *would* have suicided in a program.  Guaranteed.  There are ways, even on suicide watch, and I already knew plenty of them---they were my safety net in case something like a program did happen to me, so I wouldn't have to live through it.

Fortunately, I respond well to medication and am more normal than most "normal" people provided I don't get in a situation where some idiot could keep me from taking it.  Which, thank god, is highly unlikely.

I have a degree in psychology from a nationally ranked school, and I had an experience of someone being sent to a program who should never have been accepted into one.  

I'm not against residential treatment, just *bad* residential treatment, insufficient safeguards to ensure quality, and no checks on the system to keep parents from warehousing kids for trivial reasons.

If you were doing coke, if I had been the person making the call, I would have considered you a solid candidate for residential treatment.  

The other kid I spoke of above wasn't in need of residential treatment, in my opinion, from everything I was able to find out (which was a hell of a lot).  

My problem with that situation isn't so much that the kid is in residential treatment.  It's that there was no competent disinterested party anywhere in the pipeline deciding whether the kid needed to be there or not.

In your case, letters to and from non-active-user non-convict friends, family members, neighbors, etc., would have only served to make the adjustment to being clean at home smoother and more likely to "take"---by giving you the experience of interacting with those folks clean and sober.

One of the reasons substance abuse treatment sometimes fails is the patient gets used to being clean in the treatment environment, but gets home and is used to being trashed in interactions with the people in his life.  Encourage letters, and the patient is going to get home with some experience of interacting with the people in his life *while sober*---which can only help in the ongoing effort to build the habit of the healthy, fun, coping kind of sobriety at home.

Oh, I also, naturally, have no problem with censoring harrassment or threats of violence, whether incoming or outgoing, and any incoming letters that are basically emotionally abusive towards the patient.  If it's jerking the patient around and making him/her feel like crap, any psychiatrist worth his salt would be well within professional ethics to stop that incoming letter.

I believe if you fix the isolation, fix admissions criteria based on the parents' need for a cashectomy and fix the lack of oversight, the industry will have a shakeout where the programs with problems will either shape up or go under.

It's not that residential treatment is *never* needed or has to be done badly----it's just that it's (mostly) being done badly *now* and needs to be cleaned up.

He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
--Albert Einstein

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Offline warriorprincess

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2004, 12:32:00 PM »
We are focusing on wasp b/c we don't like child abusers
dont try to tell me about therapy, you little snot, it it took alot of therapy to deal with the whole Wasp experience unless you believe in their sort of therapy which makes a person feel unwanted/unloved by their family so much so that they would send you somewhere that teaches you that you are "damaged goods" and a piece a shit for skipping school and being depressed.  real therapy is not humiliation.  REAL THERAPISTS DONT JUDGE!  i'm sure you know that in all your wisdom, if you don't, pick up a psychology book and give yourself a little education.

here's another example of wasp therapy/help:  chew on this for a while
if, while you were there CR, someone threatened to do to you what that sick fucking 45 yr old man who deserves to be casterated did to you, is that thereapy?  Would that have changed your opinion of how much Wasp "helped" you?  b/c it sure change my opinion. i call that mental abuse.  i think a child has a right to feel safe while in bed to rest, of all places.  

did you want to blame and point your finger at the sick fuck who did that to you, or just get on with your life, or did you want him to be held responsible, perhaps you wanted to make sure he wouldn't do that to anyone else?  Well, we want people to be held responsible for their actions and we want to make sure those people who behave in this way are stopped.  

if, on the other hand, wasp did in fact make you want to crawl in a little fucking hole and cry to yourself, when you never wanted to do that BEFORE you went to wasp prison, would that change your opinion?  probaby not, programmed people have their own ingrained version of morality and values.
i am going to pick the shit up off the floor when the people who have victimized others are help responsible for what they have done.  
yes, christopher, i am 35 yrs old, i realize how fast life goes by, alot more so i believe than you do.  which is why people should be able to live their short little lives without being mentally and physically tortured.  so glad you had such a "life changing" experience!  Goody for you!
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2004, 12:57:00 PM »
I'd like to comment on one thing here.
Chris, I have seen you and others who support the program talk about how the people at the program *sometimes* care more about the kids than their own parents.
Granted, this might occasionally be true. Some people are not hitting on much in the parent department; and they may be prone to dumping the kids in such places as the program.
But what concerns me; is the way the kids are *Universally* told their parents don't care about them; don't want to see them; don't want to talk to them; and even hate them; by the program staffers.
This seems to be part of the overall method used to break their minds ('snapping')for modification.
Keep in mind; all the while, the parents are being fed the message that this is the very best; the most loving most caring thing they could possibly do for their child. Life saving and nothing less.
Of corse, for the program to work, you must trust the program, and do as they say; which means you don't talk to your kid until they've earned the right to talk to you. You don't visit for the same reason; you are advise to let them know you are working your program and moving on with your life to encourage them to do the same; And to help re-enforce this message, they are told to take a vacation and send a post card telling the kid how much fun their having and how glad they are the kid aint there.
You might notice, all of this feeds into and re-enforces the message the kids get that Ma & Pa don't give a shit about them.
Just plain evil as far as I'm concerned.
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2004, 01:01:00 PM »
Yeah, I agree with Karen.

 :rofl:
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2004, 01:10:00 PM »
yes, just plain evil is right.
and not exactly "theraputic" at that.
understanding, encouragment, enlightenment, education, these are some helpful concepts.  humiliation, degradation, NOT HELPFUL
no. 1, If the "school" was actually a "school", that would have been helpful, and many would have benefited from my son's presence there and he could have benefited, rather than him getting all fucked up in the head from being there.
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Offline warriorprincess

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2004, 01:11:00 PM »
that was me, i forgot to login.
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2004, 01:27:00 PM »
Warrior Princess, when is holding WWASPS accountable going to be a reality?  Today, tomorrow, never?  What's holding up the direct-action lawsuit?  Nobody seems to want to answer that question except to say "these things take time".  Well, it has been nearly a year (May) since Masry (Huron/Masry) announced they would be filing a massive class-action lawsuit and seeking cease-and-desist orders.  I think people should be more forthcoming on what's going on instead of playing games.
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Offline warriorprincess

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« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2004, 02:04:00 PM »
anon, why dont you call mr. wilf at huron and ask him yourself.  huron is not the only legal conduit there is available.  raising awareness is a start.  i recently read a metro times article where they chronicled a teacher, beginning in the early 70's had been molesting children .
repeatedly over the course of over 25yrs, they stepped forward and made school officials aware of what had been happening to them.  this person was verbally reprimanded several times, sealed warnings were placed in his employee file.  and the children were discounted and sent back to his class, HIS CLASS.  when there was too much heat at one school, he was sent on.  and from school to school in the district the reports of molestation came in.  the schools he was sent to were not warned of the allegations against him.  now there is a 7 million judgment against the school for letting this person continue to work with children.  its so inconceivable. yet there it was in black and white, and evnetually by the perputrator's own admission, what he had done.  

people refuse to believe what is undesirable or are just too damn lazy to do something about it.  he told them, if you tell, i will kill you, hurt your family, etc.  the usual things molesters say.  year after year, he got away with it.  
i believe i used the analogy of the civil rights movement in an earlier post, and the moral of the story in another to try to explain this matter.  how people "get away" with their imoral behavior.  

i'm not playing games with anyone.  i am just trying to raise an awareness to the reality that these things do happen, and ask people to investigate or explore how and what can be done.  

huron is certainly not the only attorney in the world.  if you don't like how they are proceeding with your case, you should maybe get another attorney.  i don't know what they are doing out there.  

gina,
from michigan
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2004, 02:19:00 PM »
Thanks Gina, but I wasn't saying you are the one playing games. There is a group of people who since day one, have been promising this direct-action-lawsuit was for real and urging people to contact them or the Huron Group.  Now they say WWASPS has met with the Huron Group and that this information (that the lawsuit is moving forward) is public knowledge.  Only problem is, they refuse to provide any documentation (facts) to support their claim, leading me to conclude some people are more interested in playing games than "being real".
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2004, 03:49:00 PM »
if the complaint was filed, its a matter of finding out with which court it was filed, going to the court and requesting to look at the file.  unfortunately for me, michigan is a far cry from california.  


gina
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Offline Antigen

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2004, 12:55:00 PM »
BTW,
This happens to be a very interesting thread. My thanks to whomever bumped it up to the top. I'm debating whether or not to bust out the first anon poster. Some of you would shit a brick if you only knew who it was saying these things just a year ago. But I'm not sure it would be legal or ethical to do that, or that it wouldn't do more harm to ppl's expectation of privacy and anonymity than any potential good. I really have to think about it some more. Any thoughts, anybody?

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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2004, 01:08:00 PM »
Quote
On 2003-08-11 18:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2003-01-30 04:38:00, Carey wrote:


"Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy


was the Wrong School


for My Twin Boys








Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.




so the boys did need help.  you didn't deny that. and they still need help.  do you have any suggestions for any good programs in today real world?  i'd just like to know this for the future of our son sake."


Ginger, is the Anon whose post you are referring to?
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2004, 01:34:00 PM »
Quote
My thanks to whomever bumped it up to the top.

That was me, $pammer1. (I called myself that because people kept complaining that my thread bumping was SPAM. Whatever..) Check my IP, and I'll bet you'll figure out who I am..hehehe..
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Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2004, 03:42:00 PM »
Anon writes:

"so the boys did need help. you didn't deny that. and they still need help. do you have any suggestions for any good programs in today real world? i'd just like to know this for the future of our son sake."

----------------------------------------------
Who is the poster? My guesses:

(1) Carey's ex? (e.g.future of "our" son's sake)
(2) A WWASPIE?
(3) A PUREE and/or TREKKER?

If it is someone that appears to fit the profile of Guess #2 or Guess #3, then I'd say the poster should have hit the edit button awhile ago if they didn't want this post to come back and haunt them later?
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