Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys

[Carey]

Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy
was the Wrong School
for My Twin Boys


Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.

Here is my experience with Dundee and why I felt the need to pull my boys from this "program."

Read the rest: http://www26.brinkster.com/bs4/stories_dundee.htm

[rescued from a very old cache]
Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy
was the Wrong School
for My Twin Boys


Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.

Here is my experience with Dundee and why I felt the need to pull my boys from this "program."

When I found out my boys were sent to Dundee Ranch Academy in Costa Rica I was concerned. I began to do some independent information gathering. I wanted to make an informed decisions as to whether or not I was in an agreement with the program chosen and be sure that it had the resources necessary to help my boys. I first began reviewing the information provided on the Internet website for the WWASP schools and the website for Dundee itself. I followed that up by directly contacting the school. I emailed the director asking him to provide me with information on the school's employees. I wanted to know things like: where they had worked previously, how long they had worked with teens in crisis, how they were trained, what their specific credentials were and whether they did criminal background checks on all individuals who had contact with the teens. (The school does credit checks on the parents, why should parents not be able to have criminal background checks done on the employees?) The reply that I received back from the director at Dundee, Joe, was that he did not have time to provide me with that information. He suggested that I look again at Dundee's website. I explained to him that I needed information, and not just boiler plate information, but specific information on the individuals who worked with the boys on a day to day basis and who were responsible for their well-being. I believe as a parent it was not only my right to have access to this information but my responsibility. Needless to say, after many requests, I was never provided with any information from Joe.

I then heard a story about a very serious life threatening incident that occurred at Dundee. I heard that as a result of the incident there were employees who had been fired. I emailed Joe, the director, and Ken Kay to see if they could either confirm the incident or deny it. I asked them why certain employees were not longer employed by Dundee. Neither one would address my question. Why? Don't parents have a right to know? If there is an explanation why would they not be willing to provide it?

The next thing I did was to have my attorney get me a copy of the enrollment agreement that had been signed. The first thing that I noticed that did not seem right was that the cover page of the enrollment agreement stated that "if joint custody both parents must sign." Well my case is and was a joint custody case and yet I never signed anything. I had never even seen the agreement. Anyway, I began to read over it. What I gathered from reading the contract was that it was written to protect the school and all affiliates and not the teens. I decided to have it looked at by a licensed clinical social worker. I wanted the opinion of a professional. I took it to an individual who has worked with Boys Town for over 10 years. This individual has had experience working with at risk teens and the credentials necessary for providing a professional opinion. This is what was pointed out by this professional:

· By signing the agreement parents are signing over their right to what is known as in the States as "informed consent." (The right to be informed about all decisions relating to your child.)

· The staff employed by Dundee are not professionals. These individuals who are responsible for the health and well-being of the children do not have to be qualified, trained or certified to provide the types of services that at risk teens need.

· Teens were allowed to punish other teens. (Are these teens emotionally stable enough to punish other teens at lower levels? If so why are they still in the program? Wouldn't they or shouldn't they be able to go home if they are at a stage where they are emotionally stable enough to determine what is right or wrong for another student? Or, could it be that the students at higher level are cheap labor for the school?)

· The school is not licensed or regulated by any outside agency that has the ability/power to monitor the methods and techniques that are being used in the school. (That will likely change now that the local authorities know that the school is there and that there are children there.)

There were many other red flags noted in the enrollment agreement. These were the ones that were the most concerning for me.

Children have to be protected. Information is vital for making informed decisions. They should never be isolated and not allowed to contact their parents. Even if they are the "manipulators" the school claims them to be. I would think that the very parents who lived with them for the first 12-18 years of their lives would be able to determine whether or not their child is being manipulative. There is nothing more important than communication between parent and child, direct open communication that is uncensored. If my child wants to vent or complain, then let them do that, I am an adult and I will decide whether or not it is something I need to be concerned with. I do not need someone who is 26 years old with degree in economics who has never had kids of his own telling me that my kids are manipulating me and that I should not have contact with them.

Carey Bock
577 Cambronne St.
Mandeville,LA 70448
985-626-7488


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[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-23 09:42 ]

[Antigen]

Hi Carey,
  Thanks for posting here. I hope this forum will eventually take off.

  Denial? A need for help? I can't help but to be very, very dubious of that kind of talk. Just because a kid is messing up in some way does not mean they need professional help. The TOUGHLOVE crowd will always try and convince us that things are different today. But I really don't think the kids are different. They'll say things like "Well, he was arrested TWICE!!!" asif that's proof that the kid was deranged. But remember, folks, that 20 years ago, they didn't used to arrest kids just for being outside or place them under light surveilance just for talking with other kids who they were watching.

Yeah, things are different today, but it's not the kids, they just got here. They're only acting on the ques we give them.

Madness takes its toll.  Please have exact change.
--Anonymous

[Carey]

Hi Antigen,

Maybe I should have said "in need of direction" in stead of in need of help.  They are in no way in need of "residential behavior modification."

[Antigen]

Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you. Is that how I came off? I apologize. I sort of meant the opposite. But cult lingo sort of brings out the warrior in me.

A mother's love and protection are NOT denial! There is no need for you to explain your need to rescue and protect your children from one of these prison camps.

What I really meant to say, and said badly aparently, is that you should not waste a single moment apologizing or making excuses or, far less, feeling guilty (guilty!) for looking after your sons. None of us are perfect. We all need guidance for our whole lives. I think that growing up is more about learning how to seek good guidance for ourselves than about not needing any.

You don't need to explain to us that your sons never deserved to be tortured and punished and never needed to be reprogramned. I think it's safe to say that each and every one of us who survived one of these programs (and I'm pretty sure that most were nowhere near as hard as the WWASP programs) can remember daydreaming about our friends and family doing just what you have done for your boys. Sadly, very few ever actually saw that dream come true.

To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-01-30 04:38:00, Carey wrote:

"Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy

was the Wrong School

for My Twin Boys





Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.

so the boys did need help.  you didn't deny that. and they still need help.  do you have any suggestions for any good programs in today real world?  i'd just like to know this for the future of our son sake.

[Anonymous]

WWASP blows Jamaican dicks...

[Anonymous]

just a post I think is worth looking at from some one who knows.....Posted: 2004-02-19 09:21:00  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Brainwashed? So let me get this straight, do you think that they "brainwashed" me into "forgetting all the abuse"?!?! You apparently didn't listen on my post when I stated that program kids say what they want to. I have almost been out for as long as I was in there, and so you'd think that the chemicals they used to brain wash me would have worn off by now. Dundee is a past chapter in my life; the only reason I respond to these damned things is because you people choose to be so damn ignorant. I'm telling you, you'd all make great candidates for weekly world news customers. As far as brainwashed goes-- we have two ways to look at things in life- positively or negatively. 6 months before I went to the program my brother got in a car wreck and my best friend was in the vehicle and died. He was the closest person that I had ever lost. Being in the program, I realized that sometimes life deals you a shitty hand, and you have to work with it. Those of us who actually tried to help ourselves out when we were in the program realized that we could make dundee whatever we wanted it to be: good or bad. For me it was all a big adventure. For some kids it was hell, and that's because they decided to feel that way about it-- not because they were abused. Dundee was the toughest episode of my life by far, but because of it I went from being a school drop-out to majoring in engineering at virginia tech with a 3.8. It gave me a chance to get off of drugs. A CHANCE. It was totally up to me whether or not I did anything when I got back- thats why they don't guarantee anything. If they really could brainwash us, then maybe there would be some gurantees; but we have free wills about deciding what we do, just as well as we have them about deciding what we say. You can't stop me from saying something that I want to. It makes me sick that you ignorant people actually believe that you are fighting for some type of just cause here.

[Anonymous]

Yep, if it looks like shit, it prolly is...sounds like program-speak to me..from the mind of the recently discharged. Try a little harder there, WWASP scum.  :rofl:

Funny how when the shit hits the fan, and someone starts bumoing MEANINGFUL posts to the top, that you WWASP assholes have to come and try to defend yourselves...

I've planted a bomb in your car. Your refrigerator's running. There's a dead horse in your bed. Your mommie's calling you...the train's leaving..woo woo...  :rofl:

[Anonymous]

What a joke you are. Can I call you WWASPIE?
spammer1

[Anonymous]

Shut up F-13 ....

[Anonymous]

Shut up, spammer2...toughguy. You're a big weenie..  :lol:

[Christopher Riner]

I agree entirely; I don't think you should feel guilty at all about getting your kids out of what you thought was a really dangerous situation.  It was really brave and it shows how much you love them.  In fact, I would like to applaud all of you who are fighting for whom you believe cannot protect ourselves, or might be afraid to- its a really valiant thing that you are doing.  I dunno, I just think that the biggest problem is a misunderstanding...  I mean, I honestly believe you guys would be able to rest a lot easier if you would believe what I have to say about Dundee.  Hell, for all you know I am just a manipulator trying to cover something up.  I really wish you would open up, though.

[Christopher Riner]

I am not sure if you were referring to what I had to say in the post, but it's hardly shit.  I think that the base to the truth of this entire matter lies in the kids that went through it.  That would be me.  If you are going to fight on the sides of the kids who went there, then you should listen to me because I'M ONE OF THEM.  As far as me being recently discharged-- I wasn't discharged.  I didn't "serve my time" and leave.  I pushed and struggled and through sweat and tears got myself out of there.  If you think that makes me WWASP scum, then you are very wrong.  Your indifference of what I have to say shows me that you have gotten so lost in your cause that you no longer remember who you are doing it for, you just know that you should attack anyone who doesn't think that we should point fingers at dundee.

[Anonymous]

christopher, we are all happy that you had a good experience with wasp, ok?  what we are not happy about (and i'm not just talking about dundee), is what you, in your own words, have asked us to focus on, the kids.  I have personal experience with the program.  What I have heard about the program is very contrary to what you say about the program.  Ok?  So, why dont you go to your dundee website where all the wasp people talk about how great you all are?  Ok?  because the people on this board are people who have been hurt, in very profound, and quite frankly, digusting ways, by the program.  why dont you get on isaccorp.com website and look at the wasp crimes report, Christopher.  Then ask yourself, could all of those people, and all of that evidence (videos, photos, sworn statements, etc. etc. overwhelming amount of evidence), all be false.  The evidence will speak for itself.  Ok?  You ask us to understand you, right?  so why dont you just run along and talke to people who just love that effing program, go be your happy little smug self somewhere they speak your programmed language b/c you'll finally find someone who agrees with you, which is obviously what you are seeking, validation/rationalization of your experience :wave: .

[NicNak]

yo you guys wanna rag on christopher but your just bitchin cuz hes doing good and you guys are stuck on fuckin crack. i went to dundee and it was fuckin hell but changed my life forever and met some of my best friends and coolest people there.  you people have no life if all you do is sit here and bitch. try solving the problems rather then making them. they started these programs to help kids and if you dont like it start your own fuckin program. life is good and people like you are what bring down the usa. I aint sayin im the best kid or im gonna be the next president but i am sayin i know myself and will stand for me and what i believe in. also i think being there i have a lot more to say then you people who read or heard from a kid who didnt have to balls to stand up and finish the shit. why dont you go visit a place and tell me what the fuck is up.  quit being pussies.  Pura Vida y coma merda puta. Nick