Author Topic: Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys  (Read 8707 times)

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Offline NicNak

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2004, 08:57:00 PM »
speaking of twins? are you talkin about geoff and garred because i hope they are doing good and they were 2 of my best friends there and i only thing i have heard are things in magazines so my prayers are with them. Nick
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Offline Christopher Riner

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2004, 09:15:00 PM »
Fine, then, if the problem is the kids then why in the hell are you focusing so much on wwasp?  Why don't you just take all of your kids and go and get them therapy or something.  What do you want, money?  The sweet taste of revenge?  Maybe if all of these kids had actually spent time learning to use what the program had taught them, then they would know how to deal with what they are going through.  When I was 16 years old, I was raped by a 45 year old man.  Do you have any fucking idea how I used to feel about that?  No matter what I do, or what I say, or what I think, I can never go back and change the fact that it happened.  I can sit and think that I am less because of it, and that I have been damaged, and that now I am unable or uncapable, and then I could go into my own little fucking hole and cry to myself.  But no- I am stronger than that.  I have been trying to help you understand more because of my experience, but I surrender.  You are victims.  You can blame and point fingers and cry all you want to, but sooner or later you are going to have to pick your shit up off the floor and move on with life, because it passes like the blink of an eye.  I am not sure how old you are, but I consider your verbal attacks extremely immature.  There is no communicating going on here.
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Offline Christopher Riner

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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2004, 09:16:00 PM »
I DONT THINK WASP IS GREAT
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2004, 10:23:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-19 18:15:00, Christopher Riner wrote:

"Fine, then, if the problem is the kids then why in the hell are you focusing so much on wwasp?

Because WWASP is the one doing the damage to the kids idiot.

 
Quote
Why don't you just take all of your kids and go and get them therapy or something.

Because some of us believe in actually parenting our children ourselves.  Novel idea, I know...but you should try it sometime, it works.  And don't tell me I don't know what it's like to have an out of control teen in the house.  I've had two and somehow we made it through without the 'benefit' of a program.  Not to say that we didn't need and seek help, just not the sadistic, twisted version WWASP offers up.

 
Quote
What do you want, money?  The sweet taste of revenge?  Maybe if all of these kids had actually spent time learning to use what the program had taught them, then they would know how to deal with what they are going through.

Funny you should mention learning to use what the program taught me.  Notice some of the verbal attacks that sometimes border on verbal abuse????  TAKE A FUCKING GUESS WHERE WE ALL LEARNED THAT ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!  As far as what the program taught me in dealing with my own kids.....well, it DID teach me quite a bit about everything NOT to do with/to them.

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When I was 16 years old, I was raped by a 45 year old man.  Do you have any fucking idea how I used to feel about that?

Yeah, think I have a clue.  It happened to me when I was 7.


Quote
No matter what I do, or what I say, or what I think, I can never go back and change the fact that it happened.  I can sit and think that I am less because of it, and that I have been damaged, and that now I am unable or uncapable, and then I could go into my own little fucking hole and cry to myself.

True, it can't be changed but it WILL affect me for the rest of my life....just like the 'treatment' I got for a drug problem I did NOT have when I went in.

 
Quote
But no- I am stronger than that.  I have been trying to help you understand more because of my experience, but I surrender.  You are victims.  You can blame and point fingers and cry all you want to, but sooner or later you are going to have to pick your shit up off the floor and move on with life, because it passes like the blink of an eye.  I am not sure how old you are, but I consider your verbal attacks extremely immature.  There is no communicating going on here. "


Fuck off....we HAVE moved on with our lives, but some of us are finally finding people that understand what we went through for the FIRST TIME IN OUR FUCKING LIVES SO BACK THE FUCK OFF.  There's one more reason for us to keep trying to shut these mind rape mills.......there are still kids going through exactly what we went through and we're not going to stand for it....PERIOD.

Freedom has a thousand charms to show, That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1840300051/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'> William Cowper, a British Christian poet & hymn writer (18th century)

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Anonymous

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2004, 10:44:00 PM »
/bump...sorry, Frod..
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Offline Froderik

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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2004, 11:26:00 PM »
/bump  :nworthy:  :cool:
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Offline Christopher Riner

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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2004, 12:06:00 AM »
Haha, someone obviously has never dealt with their emotional baggage :cry2: Well whatever man, you didn't understand thing I said.  ¿quieres que te lo digo en español?  And by the way, I don't know a damn thing about parenting I'm not a parent. You are at the world's control.  You let events control your life and how you feel.
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2004, 08:04:00 AM »
Quote
On 2004-02-19 21:06:00, Christopher Riner wrote:

"Haha, someone obviously has never dealt with their emotional baggage :cry2:

This is exactly the kind of compassion kids can expect from the programs.

Quote
Well whatever man, you didn't understand thing I said.  ¿quieres que te lo digo en español?

yeah, why don't you tell me in Spanish.  moron  :roll:

Quote
And by the way, I don't know a damn thing about parenting I'm not a parent. You are at the world's control.  You let events control your life and how you feel."


No, I'm at MY control now.  I used to be in the control of people like you, but now I just pity you.  I'm entitled to the anger that I have.  I fucking EARNED it.  Outside of trying to shut down these programs, I lead a very easy-going, contented life.  If I get heated about kids still being abused the way I was, Oh well.  

God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.


--Voltaire (1694-1778)

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t. Pete Straight
early 80s

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2004, 09:57:00 AM »
Alright, I think there is a little confusion.  Let's stop bitching at each other.  What program did you go to?  I went to Dundee in Costa Rica from 02-03.  The reason I am telling you that is because for some reason, when reading your posts, I kind of get to the conclusion that maybe you haven't read the posts where I said that (you thought I was a parent and stuff).
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Offline Christopher Riner

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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2004, 09:59:00 AM »
that anon post was from me, btw
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2004, 10:15:00 AM »
No, I didn't think you were a parent.  I read the thread.  I had a problem with what you were saying about us needing to just get over it and move on with our lives.  If WWASPs didn't effect you the way it has other people, fine.....but it very obviously has effected the lives of quite a few people in some very devastating ways and they've got a right to their anger.  HERE is one of the few places they can express that to others who have gone thru the same thing, whether you did or not.
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Offline Cayo Hueso

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Why Dundee Was the Wrong School For My Boys
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2004, 10:18:00 AM »
woops, sorry...the above post was me.

"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily.  Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr112901.htm' target='_new'>Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress

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t. Pete Straight
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Offline Christopher Riner

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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2004, 01:20:00 PM »
Right on, now we are communicating.  It really does help me to understand more of where you guys are coming from when we get past the bickering and name calling.  When I came to this forum, I wanted to bring a little understanding, and now I see that I have been getting riled up just because I wasn't abused there.  So tell me your opinions about what you would like happen to WWASP- do you want them out of business, out of commission, incarcerated?  I honestly want to know because I think if a few of us can get deeper into this issue then we can find closure on the whole thing a lot sooner.  I personally, think that a fair medium between both sides resides somewhere in the reconstruction of WWASP under closer government supervision, and with the parents more aware of how strict the rules are and whatnot:  because many parents don't agree with all of the strict rules, but for my family and me, it was the best way to learn.  Tell me your thoughts.
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Offline Timoclea

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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2004, 01:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-02-20 10:20:00, Christopher Riner wrote:

"Right on, now we are communicating.  It really does help me to understand more of where you guys are coming from when we get past the bickering and name calling.  When I came to this forum, I wanted to bring a little understanding, and now I see that I have been getting riled up just because I wasn't abused there.  So tell me your opinions about what you would like happen to WWASP- do you want them out of business, out of commission, incarcerated?  I honestly want to know because I think if a few of us can get deeper into this issue then we can find closure on the whole thing a lot sooner.  I personally, think that a fair medium between both sides resides somewhere in the reconstruction of WWASP under closer government supervision, and with the parents more aware of how strict the rules are and whatnot:  because many parents don't agree with all of the strict rules, but for my family and me, it was the best way to learn.  Tell me your thoughts."


What I want:

I want each kid to get mail freely from anyone from day one, every week--three first class stamps and envelopes and paper and a pen to write to anyone they choose.  I want social services addresses for reporting abuse and appealing determinations clearly posted where all students can see them.

Why I want it:

You can't induce Stockholm Syndrome without isolation.  It stops bad schools from substituting Stockholm Syndrome and cult dissociation (it implants a false "acceptable" personality on top of the teen's own) for effective treatment.  It's the preventive measure that's least disruptive of any real and responsible therapeutic process.

What I'd accept as a limit on it:

If the parent can reasonably substantiate to a caseworker that the kid's relationship with the letter writer was or is sexual, that correspondent can be barred.  If the parent alleges a correspondent is a drug abuser, the correspondent has X time from notification to take a drug test at a hospital, if the test is clean the correspondent stays uncensored--dirty, that correspondent can be barred.  Three false accusations, total, and the parent loses the right to make the claim of "druggies."  The parent can ask that mail to or from convicted felons or juveniles convicted of delinquent offenses be barred.

What else I want:

Each school to have a state social services case worker assigned.  Each student to have their assignment to a TBS reviewed within 72 hours by said caseworker to determine if the kid has a problem requiring residential treatment.  If the kid doesn't, he goes home *unless* he chooses to attend the TBS.  *If* he chooses to attend the TBS, *that* kid is free to leave and go home at any time (school doesn't have to take him back later, though).  If the parents won't take him, social services should treat it like any other case of child abandonment.

What else I want:

Social services to investigate all allegations of abuse and do a certain minimum number of thorough surprise inspections each year.

What else I want:

All staff who would restrain a patient/student/inmate in an emergency trained in application of those restraints and alternate techniques of resolution (restraints are always a risk to the patient's life, for various reasons I won't get into here), and trained by an accredited service/program *not* affiliated with the TBS.

-----------------

I don't want to shut all TBS's down.  I want quality controls and external oversight to protect the basic rights and long-term mental health of the teen and ensure quality of care.

The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.


--H.L. Mencken

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2004, 05:11:00 PM »
Your ideas definitely sound negotiable.  Is stockholm syndrome like an isolation-induced medical condition?  If it is, then that would probably have a good chance of holding up in court if you want to have the mail policies changed.  These rights' cases can carry a pretty fuzzy line between the two parties, though.  If they were to approve of that, then would that make parents unable to stop there kids from barring phone calls at home, who had nothing to do with the program?  My personal experience with mail in the program wasn't EXTREMELY frustrating, but then again my parents would send mail out to most of my friends, when I would send it to them.  I don't know much about S.S., but if I were to assume, I would think that as long as the kids have SOME communication, they would not have a strong enough sense of isolation to really be in any danger.  Maybe there could be a standard for a set amount of minimum contacts- whatever can be proven to be safe or whatever.  The idea of controlled mail does serve a good purpose- as a parent, I am sure that you understand the influence that other kids have on one another.  I think more phone calls w/ parents would definitely be nothing but instrumental for the children.  I still believe they shouldn't be with held from the student having to work for them, but perhaps maybe not quite so much.  I didn't speak to my parents on the phone until my 5th month day in the program, and after that, I never felt like I was quite as distant or disconnected with them (costa rica definitely feels like its another planet away).    
Other than that, I agree a lot with what you say about haing social services very involved, and having random visits every month or so.  They did have Costa Rican child welfare services (PANI?) come by with random visits, but it never really settled everyone's suspicion- they never found enough to shut it down (until whatever happened with the riots there).  They always thought that the school would just put on an act  for a day or something.  A big factor is how comfortable the parents are with their kid across the country/world:  I think a closer relationship between officials and the schools would really be able to help parents rest easy- as well as keep fishy things from going on.  But no matter how many visits/checkups to the school, there will still be small margins which will allow large amounts of suspicion to form.  I think the best way to handle that situation would be to have at least one (government) official on grounds at all times.

oh yeah, you didn't mention what program you were in :???:
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