Author Topic: looking for info on Abundant Life Academy  (Read 7345 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2006, 04:28:56 PM »
And I say that any kid who relayed to a parent that he had FUN in any program is either severely brainwashed, or is just lying to make his mom feel better.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2006, 05:19:13 PM »
Well he thought snowboarding was fun. So was Disneyland and the hikes through Bryce Canyons and so on. I don't think that means he was brainwashed - or lying. He had a lot of fun. There was always a lot of laughing and joking going on - it wasn't at all what you might imagine.

It was a much smaller program then - and these "field trips" were common.

I wouldn't lie to you about it. I'd tell you the truth, if it had been in any way abusive or negligent.

I do know it is a larger program now; and no doubt also not as open as it was. The change in size alone seems to make this inevitable. Still, I have not heard anything from anyone suggesting the kids are mistreated. I guess the best place to check for any report of that nature would be ISAC.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2006, 06:28:29 PM »
I've been thinking about you, BK, and your post record on this board.

All right.. coming from you, I'll believe it to be true, although I've never heard of an actual program doing things like that.

Doesn't look like they do the fun stuff anymore, though.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2006, 10:04:36 PM »
If Jesus is the answer, what was the question?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2006, 02:26:52 AM »
ok fair enough, sure they advertise their unique brand of christianity & i accept that things have probably changed since you sent your son there but cmon. The website was about as jackboot in it's approach to christianty & childrearing as possible. They also were not coy about how strong their focus on discipline was. I can only go on what the school itself advertises & that is a mentality that its kids are in need of punishment automatically. Their euphamism was "adversity" & that this & christ is the only saviour. they also made the huge assumption that troubled kids are undisciplined by their nature.

I am not suggesting that a school with any kind of religious ehos is bad per se, but the blanket slogan "christ is the answer" is an irresponsible thing to teach kids who live in a diverse and multicultural society as it is not the answer for many of the people that kids may have to meet throughout their lifetime. Shouldnt a school with christian values place the emphasis on tolerance for diversity & social justice. Shouldnt it not have room for students to ask questions about faith based issues in the spirit of inellectual inquiry the way they would in any other lesson?
 
Moreover the student handook had minor emphasis on practical things kids needed to know like what the requred book list was, or what time meals or even church times were but placed a big emphasis on random biblical quotes & ways for student who have been there for a while to discipline the newbies. If a school has theology or divinity classes & regular church services it is one thing but the "jesus wants your sinning kid to be punished" mentality that the website promoted was disturbing.

What if your "troubled" kid has problems that revolve around not getting along with the parents new partner, or strongly questioning the parents faith? What if the kid does not act in a spoilt and entitled manner but is displaying signs of being gay? Nothing suggested to me that this kid would gain acceptance & support within the school. Nothing suggested that conservative but loving parents would be encouraged by the school to accept a kid like this for who they are or work together to overcome the communication issues which pervade the whole family or find out what it was that their kid believed in.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2006, 02:28:32 AM »
that above poster was we. seemed to be logged off again!
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2006, 01:30:13 PM »
Well if the focus is on punishment as you say (I've not seen this) then things have changed a great deal. Punishment was not the focus. There were reasonable consequences for breaking rules - but they were in fact very reasonable; and by typical industry standards, quit lenient. As I've pointed out, I don't know anything about what may or may not have changed.

I really don't want to come across as the apologist for ALA on Fornits. I am far to out of touch with current events to attempt any such thing.

However, speaking generally about Christian programs, I will make some comments.

As for taking issue with the apparent intolerance  - that is not an unusual complaint. However - I would hope that the families who make use of the school would be of like mind.

There is of corse the potential for some teens to find themselves in such a program b/c it is what their parents believe - not what they believe. This has the potential for being most uncomfortable for some. I grant you this is a concern.

I would hope, that altho many attitudes, beliefs and behaviors would not be acceptable (acceptable defined as "not a problem") in a Christian program  - the people holding such views would be treated with respect and consideration - even as they are disagreed with.

However, I would disagree with your comment: "the blanket slogan "Christ is the answer" is an irresponsible thing to teach kids who live in a diverse and multicultural society . . ."

If one believes the only real and lasting solution to the problem of sin (and all life's problems are the result of sin) is a relationship with Jesus the Messiah, then it would be irresponsible to not be clear on that point.

However - it is not a point to be forced - and that is an important thing to remember.

You ask: "Shouldnt a school with Christian values place the emphasis on tolerance for diversity & social justice. "

As to tolerance, I don't think so. There is a great deal that should not be tolerated in the Christian church. If it is, then what you have is something other than a Christian church. But this doesn't mean those who disagree should be guilt tripped or shamed. That is where to many Christian programs cross the line. I wish there were more effort to remember we are all sinners in need of grace and salvation; and that none of us has any business shaming others - for how are we any better? When it comes to being sinners in need of salvation, students and staff are on equal footing. Neither should be held up to public ridicule. And this business of public confession is something that needs to be halted absolutely - no matter what kind of program it is. Confession and repentance is between the person and God, an is no one else's business at all.

As to social justice - I am tempted to say, yes of corse this is always needed - but maybe we need to clarify what you mean by social justice. If you mean people treated fairly and equally despite their differences, then yes, of corse I agree.

Diversity is always good - but if your talking diversity of faiths - then you aren't talking a Christian program. It may be operated by a church - but if their is no focus on faith, then it is secular in its focus. Not a problem - but this isn't what we're talking about here. Of corse it is a Big problem, if the program is claiming to be non faith based - and then the students are required to attend Mass, or read the book of Mormon, or bow to Allah, or have new age beliefs forced upon them in LGAT seminars.

As for the Christian programs with questioning or disbelieving students, It is possible to debate the various issues and not attack one another. I consider it vitally important for the Christian program to remember you can not force repentance on people. That is between them and the Holy Sprit.

You can present the gospel message, and explain why we are to live one way, and not another - but weather or not this is accepted as truth by another is a deeply personal thing - between them and God.

Pounding anyone with guilt and shame will be far more likely to harden their heart, and drive them further into the darkness, than if you present the message with patience and kindness, and maybe even a little humor - and pray for them - and leave the convicting up to the Holy Sprit. Anything else is pointless and counter productive.

But please note - none of this means the gospel message, or the lessons in the scripture, should be watered down to suit another's personal taste. I'm just saying you can't force it. No matter how refreshing the water - if you force it down another persons throat, they will chock on it. They must drink willingly, b/c they want it, for it to do anygood.

You say "If a school has theology or divinity classes & regular church services it is one thing but the "Jesus wants your sinning kid to be punished" mentality that the website promoted was disturbing. "

If that's the message then your right, it is disturbing.  I would be surprised. Punishment was not ever the focus - repentance and redemption - but not punishment. As I explained, repentance/redemption can not be forced. I know many "Christian" programs ignore this fact - but I hope ALA will never be one of them.

As to your final paragraph - As we all know, many kids end up in all kinds of programs, who don't need or "deserve" to be there.  I would hope that these kids would be treated with the kindness and compassion - just like the kids who are more in need of intervention.  Of corse, tragically, kindness and compassion are seriously lacking in this industry as a whole.

As for working with the parents to improve communication - Hopefully, there are always such efforts made -  As you know - the Parents are often the problem.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2006, 05:05:23 PM »
Quote from: ""Pls help""
their website states
Jesus is the only answer for your troubled teen
I hope your kid is not jewish or muslim!


Why not Jewish? Jesus was . . .
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Offline Anonymous

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BuzzKIll here
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2006, 05:47:30 PM »
Your comment reminds me of something I heard just yesterday. . .

I was watching this older movie about this Jewish kid who was struggling with the issue involving tolerance and family expectations.

I was waiting for "the Chosen" and this was on first. I didn't catch the name.

Anyway, at one point there is this "brotherhood" day celebration to take place; and the kid is asking his Rabbi why people pretend to be so nice when underneath is all this meanness. He ends up providing the Rabbi with a number of small town "secretes" - things everyone knows, but which are never said out loud. The Rabbi uses this into to make some good points during his chance at the podium on Brotherhood day.

But to get started, he began with some humor -

A Jewish father went to his good friend and lamented: My son is leaving for Jerusalem tomorrow - he is going to become a Christian!

His friend in a state of amazement says: Funny you should mention that - my son also has left for Jerusalem - and says he is going to become a Christian - what shall we do?!

So, they go to confer with their Rabbi - Rabbi, they say - our sons are heading for Jerusalem - to become Christians - what shall we do?!

The Rabbi says - Funny you should mention that! My son also has gone to Jerusalem and become a Christian! Let us fast, cover our heads with ashes,  rend our clothes, and pray -

And so they did.

After some days of this, The All Mighty speaks to them - What is it that is so disturbing you?  He asks.  So they tell Him: Our sons have left for Jerusalem to become Christians! and a voice Booms forth from the Heavens - Funny you should mention that!

Made me smile.
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Offline White Cracker Man

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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2006, 05:55:57 PM »
as far as religion goes, I feel every religion has to respect the other. Unless it is a radical religion of course. I have no problem with any religious person  unless they try to convert me or whatever. My cousin is in a mixed race/ mixed faith religion and from what I have seen they saeem very happy. Her husband seems pretty down to earth , cracking jokes etc. He is a Jehovah's Witness. She is Roman Catholic. BSarro,I know you will have something to say about that  but I do not care. As for Buzzkill, I disagree on the program stuff with her, but I have alot of respect for her. I have had dialogue with Buzzkill and she does seem like a very nice person. And I was talking with her a little while back about my life a little bit and she not once tried to hammer christianity. I appreciate that very much. In my life I had so many people who said they were christians and said embrace christianity or burn in eternal hell. I never got that from Buzzkill. But I do very respectfully  disagree with Buzzkill about Jesus being the answer to everything. If he was , we would not be here discussing abusive programs and the like. Just my two cents.
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Offline BSarro

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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2006, 07:00:31 PM »
Mikey, Your cousin is going to be locked out of the promised land for getting married to a person who practices a false religion.
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od helps those who help themselves.                            Take marriage seriously.                             Once the Wedding Ring goes on the finger, it stays on the finger.

Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2006, 08:47:02 PM »
Thank you Mikey

As to your final comment "if He was, we wouldn't be here talking about abusive programs" - I still say He is, and if people lived lives according to this His principals, there would be no such thing as an abusive program.  

The people operating these abusive programs are not concerning themselves at all with Christian living or behavior toward others.

As for correct Christian attitudes towards our Jewish brothers:

Zechariah 8 V 23: In those days ten men from ten different nations will clutch at the coat sleeve of one Jew and say " Please let us go with you, for God is with you,"

And another  Z Prophet:

Zephaniah 3 18- 20: I have gathered your wounded and taken away your reproach. And I will deal severely with all who have oppressed you, I will save the weak and helpless ones, and bring together those who were chased away. I will give glory to my former exiles,  mocked and ashamed. At that time I will gather you together and bring you home again, and give you distinction among the peoples of the earth, and they will praise you when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes, Says the Lord.

(Hope your paying attention BS arro.)
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2006, 09:13:36 PM »
What is a Z Prophet?  What is Zephaniah?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2006, 11:41:53 PM »
There is no such thing as a true "Christian" school unless the kids are all being taught and required to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, take care of the old and infirm, become compassionate and doing for "the least" among us.  Jesus was anti-religious dogma,  anti-materialism and wanted people to take care of and love each other IN THIS WORLD.    There is really only one person in the world who came close to living the way Jesus preached: Mother Theresa.  He did not want people to screw over each other in this world, pray a lot so they could get a good seat in the next world.  He said the kingdom of heaven is HERE (or could be if we practiced love and justice, treating each other as we would wish to be treated and loving each other as we love ourselves).  Everything else is hogwash, various (thousands of) people's ideas (some reeeeeeeeeeeeeealy crazy) of what was written down by many many people over a number of years and put down in a book that was supposed to be ALLEGORICAL, not dogma.  Most "christians"  I have come in contact with, especially the "born again" flavor, revel in the idea of eternal torture in store for those who do not subscribe to their particular brand of craziness.
Just because they don't hammer it into you doesn't mean it isn't there in the back of their self-righteous minds.  Which is par for the course for just about ALL religions.  Jesus may not be the answer but his teachings could be if people really paid attention: you know, take care of the sick, homeless, hungry, elderly, each other.  Don't be greedy, petty, avaricious etc.  Fat chance in this world.  No one really KNOWS what the next one is going to be like not matter how much they try to convince everyone that they do.
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2006, 07:51:31 AM »
To the person who posted the jewish joke
 ::bigsmilebounce::  ::bwahaha::

To buzzkill. Please do not get me wrong. my aim was not to criticise your faith or to dispute your son's experience there. i suspect that if its current marketing is a true picture, it has grown into another school entirely. i also agree that schools which claim to be secular but push some kind of crazy new age therapy confessional groups onto kids should also be strongly taken to task.  Or worse schools like thayer who claim to be secular but are accused of things like making hindu kids eat meat till they throw up.
 What i objected to was the tone of the schools current marketing which was extremely fire and brimstone and which gave the strong impression of taking a "tough love" approach and claiming it was in the name of christian love. it also openly advertised the monitored ph calls and that "adversity" which i read as punishment was good foor spoilt young people. It was not at all dissimilar to the website of New Horizons ministrys which used to be Escuela Caribe. After reading jesus land  I felt immediately uncomfortable with the extremely hard line the school pushed. As to the debate about jesus being the answer to all human ills, i guess we will have to agree to disagree. I have never understood the whole original sin concept (the brand of christianity I was raised with was Catholicism but i tend to think they are all similar once you get past the bells and smells) why focus on what is wrong with people, why not focus on what it right? I don't really hink most curious, hormonal naughty kids are so much sinners as just eager to have some fun and too young to have really thought out the consequencesa to some of their actions. i certainly don't view my adult self as a sinner. More just a stubborn smart alec with too much to say.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen