Author Topic: The Who  (Read 793694 times)

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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3135 on: September 13, 2008, 10:49:16 PM »
Am I now? Tell me something, how would I be classified as a troll for holding retards like Cindy accountable and telling the truth, whereas Cindy somehow isnt for spewing his propoganda and doing anything he can to keep the truth from coming to light.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Froderik

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3136 on: September 14, 2008, 12:05:51 AM »
Quote from: "guest"
The robertbruce guy is a troll who likes to incite people.  He does not really say anything meaningful.  It is better that he keep going.  He and the who go at it for hours.
Fuck that... plenty of people 'go at it for hours' with TheWho...what makes you or anyone else any better than RB?
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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3137 on: September 14, 2008, 08:53:03 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________

July 1, 2000 thru June 2001   Children 8-18 years of age.

Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides   , 2,959 Total  (NCES, CDC)

Therapeutic Industry:

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002   Children 8-18 years of age.

Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides   , 2,868 Total  (NCES, CDC)

Therapeutic Industry:

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003   Children 8-18 years of age.

Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides   , 2,846 Total  (NCES, CDC)

Therapeutic Industry:

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004   Children 8-18 years of age.

Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides   , 2,722 Total  (NCES, CDC)

Therapeutic Industry:

TBS ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

Wilderness -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total

TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
 NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s....  All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable

3,000 kids die every year in public schools?  Is this true?
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3138 on: September 14, 2008, 10:00:19 AM »
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Nooooooooooooooo!!!!"
Quote from: "RobertBruce"
Cindy....................................

Please stop.  Right now.  I agree with the majority of your sentiments, but you really don't help with this shit.
Who are you to tell someone not to post?  

Also, how do you, in contrast with RobertBruce "help with this shit"?

We don't even know who you are!

I didn't tell him not to post.  I asked him not to.  I can't stand the *Cindy* posts, so I asked him to stop.  Christ, it's not like I have any actual control over whether or not he can post.  Settle down.

I didn't claim that I helped.  If I don't have anything to contribute other than childish remarks, I try to keep my mouth shut.  I'm not always successful, but I try.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3139 on: September 14, 2008, 10:25:13 AM »
Quote from: "ajnvjn"
I didn't tell him not to post.  I asked him not to.  I can't stand the *Cindy* posts, so I asked him to stop.  Christ, it's not like I have any actual control over whether or not he can post.  Settle down.

I didn't claim that I helped.  If I don't have anything to contribute other than childish remarks, I try to keep my mouth shut.  I'm not always successful, but I try.
Alright then, sorry to jump down your throat; witnessing the same old tiresome debates can get old to me, too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3140 on: September 14, 2008, 11:41:46 AM »
Quote
3,000 kids die every year in public schools? Is this true?

Yes, its almost 60 kids a week die in our public school system.  I would not suggest we all run out and start placing our kids in TBS’s based on this information.  We need to realize that some programs are safer than others.  These statistics are just a piece of the information we all need to know.

Kids in wilderness are more prone to things like insect bites, falling accidents, infection and are not in general proximity to medical help etc..  But they are not in close proximity to drugs or people that could harm them either … which one offsets the other?    Each situation is different so all the options need to be weighed prior to making any decisions.



...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3141 on: September 14, 2008, 11:51:07 AM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote
not in close proximity to drugs or people that could harm them either.


You would think, right?  I haven't heard of many teachers in public school restraining a student until they were dead.

Year, Child's Name, Program and Cause of Death

1990     Michelle Sutton - Summit Quest (Closed) -  Dehydration
1990     Kristen Chase - Challenger (Closed) - Hyperthermia
1994     Aaron Bacon - North Star Expeditions (Closed) - *Abuse/Medical Neglect*
2000     William "Eddie" Lee - Obsidian Trails (Still Open) - *Improper Restraint*
2001     Ryan Lewis - Alldrege Academy (Still Open Renamed The Ayne Institute) - Suicide
2002     Charles "Chase" Moody - On Track (Closed) -*Improper Restraint*
2002     Katherine "Katie" Lank - Red Rock Academy (Closed) - Head Trauma
2002     *Erica Harvey - Catherine Freer Wilderness (Still Open)  - Hyperthermia
2002     Ian August - Skyline Journey (Still Open Renamed Distant Drums)  - Hyperthermia
2003     Corey Baines - Catherine Freer Wilderness (Still Open) -  Head Trauma

source
http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/INMEMORIAM.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3142 on: September 14, 2008, 12:10:45 PM »
Quote
You would think, right? I haven't heard of many teachers in public school restraining a student until they were dead.

I think if we listed all the names of the kids who died in public schools since 1990 we would overload the site (close to 54,000 kids based on todays rates vs 10 children in Residential Treatment).  Kids in our public school system were murdered, raped by their teachers, raped by class mates, forced to run laps until their heart stopped, shot, committed suicide, shot by other class mates, thrown out windows, ridiculed to the point of suicide, died of drug overdoses...... etc. (The 54,000 does not include all the kids who died of drug overdoses, neglect, accidents, accidental deaths etc. just murders and suicide)
We will all continue to try to create environments that are safe for our kids, but the difficult part is predicting/ controlling the human element.  We all know that Public school teachers do not have the training to detect these kids problems before it is too late for them and with the budget cuts the teacher/student ratio is growing very quickly.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3143 on: September 14, 2008, 12:25:00 PM »
If you can find me a school that has a policy for a teacher to sit on top of a student for a couple hours who is talking out of turn or misbehaving, I would be very surprised. In fact, I would imagine it would be quite illegal to do so. The kids listed before were killed by staff who were doing what they were told and following their program's policy.

Take this video for example

http://www.heal-online.org/Takedown.mpg

Yes, you heard correctly, that was "I can make it hurt".

These staff members knew full well there was a TV crew filming them. Imagine what happens when the camera's are off.

Do parents really want to spend thousands of dollars a month to have their child treated in this way? Really?

Like you said, there will always be evil people who rape and hurt children no matter where they are. The difference is programs as institutions endorse the abuse, public schools do not.
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Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3144 on: September 14, 2008, 12:46:52 PM »
Quote
If you can find me a school that has a policy for a teacher to sit on top of a student for a couple hours who is talking out of turn or misbehaving, I would be very surprised. In fact, I would imagine it would be quite illegal to do so. The kids listed before were killed by staff who were doing what they were told and following their program's policy.

I don’t think we could find anyplace that has a policy which allows teachers or staff (or anybody!!) to sit on top of each other.  If you find that policy I would like to see it.

We are still talking about 10 kids over the period of 2 decades vs. 54,000 and that is just the number who were murdered and committed suicide.  Does not include accidental death, teachers raping kids, drug overdoses etc.



...
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3145 on: September 14, 2008, 12:56:12 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"

I don’t think we could find anyplace that has a policy which allows teachers or staff (or anybody!!) to sit on top of each other.  If you find that policy I would like to see it.

...

I understand you not having experienced any program you might assume this to be the case, as it would make logical sense. The reality is restraints and physical altercations involving staff vs. students are a very common event. I've seen many, many times several staff members pile on top of a relatively small teen, and hold them that way until they stopped resisting, which sometimes can be a very long time. Talk to former staff members and students, and you will see this to be the case.

You can see an example of it in full action, just click on the video link provided in the post previous to yours.

Tell me TheWho, what would you call what is occurring in that video. Therapy? Treatment? What word or phrase according to you would best describe what is taking place in that video?

Just because bad things happen in public school also, does not dismiss the negatives occuring in programs. What if it had been your daughter who unfortunately made that list, how would you feel when someone dismisses them as "only ten deaths" as you have? Probably not very good, have some empathy for their families.
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3146 on: September 14, 2008, 01:01:03 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote
If you can find me a school that has a policy for a teacher to sit on top of a student for a couple hours who is talking out of turn or misbehaving, I would be very surprised. In fact, I would imagine it would be quite illegal to do so. The kids listed before were killed by staff who were doing what they were told and following their program's policy.

I don’t think we could find anyplace that has a policy which allows teachers or staff (or anybody!!) to sit on top of each other.  If you find that policy I would like to see it.

We are still talking about 10 kids over the period of 2 decades vs. 54,000 and that is just the number who were murdered and committed suicide.  Does not include accidental death, teachers raping kids, drug overdoses etc.



...

Eckerd Youth Ranch. Remember about a year and a half ago when I told you about the kid who was sat on by the 300 lbs counselor there as part of their "restraint" policy. The kid died and you joked about it claiming McDonalds was to blame, not the counselor. Incidentially that counselor was not fired. If what he did wasnt part of procedure why wouldnt he be? How about it Cindy?
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Offline RobertBruce

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3147 on: September 14, 2008, 01:04:38 PM »
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote
3,000 kids die every year in public schools? Is this true?

Yes, its almost 60 kids a week die in our public school system.  I would not suggest we all run out and start placing our kids in TBS’s based on this information.  We need to realize that some programs are safer than others.  These statistics are just a piece of the information we all need to know.

Kids in wilderness are more prone to things like insect bites, falling accidents, infection and are not in general proximity to medical help etc..  But they are not in close proximity to drugs or people that could harm them either … which one offsets the other?    Each situation is different so all the options need to be weighed prior to making any decisions.



...


Now Cindy, I just want to make sure we're clear on your position. Is it your claim the 60 kids per week die violent deaths in school, as in from the direct results of others violent actions, and not a disease or illness of some kind? I just want to make sure we understand your position.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3148 on: September 14, 2008, 03:13:11 PM »
Quote
I understand you not having experienced any program you might assume this to be the case, as it would make logical sense. The reality is restraints and physical altercations involving staff vs. students are a very common event. I've seen many, many times several staff members pile on top of a relatively small teen, and hold them that way until they stopped resisting, which sometimes can be a very long time. Talk to former staff members and students, and you will see this to be the case.
You can see an example of it in full action, just click on the video link provided in the post previous to yours.

We have had teachers having sex with students, but I don’t believe they have a policy that condones it .  


Quote
Tell me TheWho, what would you call what is occurring in that video. Therapy? Treatment? What word or phrase according to you would best describe what is taking place in that video?

What do you think of Columbine, did you watch it?  Why do you think they allow that stuff to continue?  Why don’t they train the teachers, in the public school system, not to assault children and try to have sex with them?  What do you think of that?  Is that treatment or school policy on sex education?

Quote
Just because bad things happen in public school also, does not dismiss the negatives occuring in programs.

Exactly my point flip that around and I think you will understand my point.

Quote
What if it had been your daughter who unfortunately made that list, how would you feel when someone dismisses them as "only ten deaths" as you have? Probably not very good, have some empathy for their families.

I have empathy, but I haven’t seen you post any remorse about any of the 54,000 who died or the kids who were raped in Public school.  I think you should feel fortunate that you never had a teacher like that or had to suffer through a son or daughter who took their own life because public school teachers don’t have the time or training to recognize when a child is at-risk.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline RobertBruce

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Re: The Who
« Reply #3149 on: September 14, 2008, 04:35:44 PM »
Once again Cindy continues his policy of avoiding any and all questions that he's too afraid to answer. Namely those that force him to acknowledge things he'd rather not. So then lets get to it. Me asking questions of Cindy that he'll ignore due to his own cowardice, lack of proper programming, and general lack of intelligence.

Quote
We have had teachers having sex with students, but I don’t believe they have a policy that condones it .

Teachers which are then fired. You keep missing that programs have policies in place to allow staff to beat up on kids. Somehow you keep missing that difference.

Quote
What do you think of Columbine, did you watch it? Why do you think they allow that stuff to continue? Why don’t they train the teachers, in the public school system, not to assault children and try to have sex with them? What do you think of that? Is that treatment or school policy on sex education?

You're ignoring his question and trying to deflect the issue. No one is allowing things like Columbine to continue, there are no policies in place that encourage events like Columbine to occur, nor do public schools encourage teachers to have sex with students. As opposed to programs in the PTS where staff often has sex with inmates only to remain employed.

Quote
Exactly my point flip that around and I think you will understand my point.

And again, public schools dont lie to the state about their purpose in order to avoid oversite or regulation. They dont maintain policies regarding hurting kids, and they dont seek out unqualified staff members. They certianlly dont keep staff members who have hurt students employed long after the truth came to light. You keep focusing on the fact that kids get hurt or die in public schools. Fine, no one is disputing that. The difference is how its handled between the two. Public schools are held accountable, they fire unqualified or dangerous staff, and they make adjustments to make sure that incidents like that are not repeated. PTS programs do everything they can to sweep incidents under the rug, the maintain policies that allowed the incident to occur, and they keep the offending staff members on the payroll.

Quote
I have empathy, but I haven’t seen you post any remorse about any of the 54,000 who died or the kids who were raped in Public school. I think you should feel fortunate that you never had a teacher like that or had to suffer through a son or daughter who took their own life because public school teachers don’t have the time or training to recognize when a child is at-risk.

No you don't. You've dismissed and discounted numerous kid's stories of getting hurt and abused or killed. You've gone so far as to make fun of survivors. As far as the rest of your babbelings, what makes you think teachers in the PTS are any better trained to recognize those signs?

Oh and Cindy, I'm still waiting to hear whether or not those 60 kids that you claim die a week in public schools all die from violent deaths. Let me know. I've really missed you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »