The Who

[Anonymous]

i guess my issue with all of you

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[RobertBruce]

Deborah he's again splitting hairs, or manipulating for lack of a better term.

He's deeming "therapy" only what his daughter had with the actual licensed therapist. The group therapy sessions, he's claiming those weren't therapy per se, rather some sort of group meeting where therapy may or may not have occured.

He's just trying to dance around the facts that ASR apparently allows unlicensed therapist to practice therapy.

[Anonymous]

you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before.  most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists.  these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own.  deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours.  i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own.  places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses.  and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country.   so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.

[RobertBruce]

i guess my issue with all of you is that none of you have even been to the school and know nothing for a fact.

It depends on the school, some of us were locked up in them.

face it i have read all of you say is fact but truth is all innuendo.

A great deal of it is fact.

you hold up as fact stuff that happened 7 years ago in an article.

It doesnt change the fact that it happened.

you hold as fact what some former students have said...that is not even fact in a court case it is opinion and heresey

Testimony still bears weight does it not?

you hold grudges against some programs like HLA which truly deserve to be closed down

I personally dont have a grudge against HLA, I just want the truth brought to light.

but never give anyone a chance to change improve or try new things

So far as HLA goes Ive seen no real improvement that wasnt forced upon them, that seems to be standard for the industry.

you hold up this idea of licensure which is bullshit because there are active clinics and treatment centers where people work under another license, this is not just something that happens at ASR or other such places. the people have to have so many years of experience to get licensed in the first place. DJ if you are in the field and work in georgia i know for a fact you probably to work in the field for 4 years without a license seeing people under another license while you accumulated work hours and supervision hours. so you cannot hold this up as a true issue because if that was the case then every treatment center in the USA would have to close.

True enough, but most of these places have been around alot longer than 4 years. Whats the hold up?

i am not saying you are wrong but this forum is bullshit because no one even considers any grey area at all.

I personally have never said there are no good TBS's. I just dont know of any.

[TheWho]

Deborah wrote:

Wah.  We're having a passionate debate and calling into question your statements about ASR. You certainly have the option to ignore anything that insults your sensibilities and just answer the questions. That would be a start. In program terms, you're 'manipulating' the debate by complaining about attacks. If you're waiting for everyone to speak to you in a certain way, this discussion is a waste of time. Just answer the questions and ignore the delivery. We're after FACTS, not your opinion of other posters. You could prove DJ wrong by providing links to the counselors/therapist's license. Every state provides this information. If it's not important to you, then just say so.

Ha,Ha,  no I?m not upset.  I think that is one of the problems with forums and emails.  It is difficult to get a sense if someone is upset or happy etc.  But I am not calling foul or feel picked on at all and not complaining, dont worry.  I am trying to answer your questions the best I can.  I am not going to research and provide links to peoples licenses.  I think , Deborah you would agree, the message should be that parents with kids going to ASR will ask for them and receive the same as I did.  The therapists are licensed and parents should ask to see their credentials (as I did) and have them loop back to their child?s home therapist.  Yes this is important!!
If this is done then I don?t see an issue.

My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.

Can you prove that, or are we to take your and the program's word?

How can any of us prove it?  It is what it is?that?s what she got, by her account and my account and her home therapists? account.

[Anonymous]

you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before.  most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists.  these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own.  deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours.  i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own.  places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses.  and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country.   so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.

Coercive therapy is bad.  Always.

[RobertBruce]

you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before.  most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists.  these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own.  deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours.  i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own.  places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses.  and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country.   so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.

Not all of them, what youre missing is that these places arent forthright about the fact that therapy is being practiced by trainees. Whatsmore even with the supervision alot of times they are still in violation of the law. I know in GA a licensed therapist can only legally supervise three trainees. How many is Buchi currently supervising?

[RobertBruce]

you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before

He is splitting hairs, he wants to claim group therapy isnt therapy. This is no different then the staff at hla claiming they dont take court ordered kids because the kid had a choice between the school or jail.


Splitting hairs.

[TheWho]

Guest wrote:

......so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.

Thanks for your input, guest.   We could help so many kids if we could move this in the right direction and focus on positive improvements instead of tearing things down.  The negative approach has never worked and never will.  We need to start helping kids by improving the places where they are at (i.e. home, school, hospitals, treatment centers)... why cant anyone see this!!!!  
Enforce regulation, start measuring successes, get feedback and turn it into improvements and continue to help more kids and reduce the failures?.. its simple on paper but could reach a lot of kids in reality.  This would be a much better approach than chasing the kids back into the streets!

[RobertBruce]

yet you were the one who opposed regulation. You dont give a shit about helping these kids, dont pretend to now.

[Anonymous]

trust me i know HLA..in fact i know a lot about this industry.....oh my god....then i migh be part of it...i was....HLA deserves to be closed down, i know this.

robert you went there i know you suffered.....like i said i know this place.  but wha ti also know is what i am saying is that not every program is bad.  so stop being so judgemental and really try to find the good ones promote those and close the ones like ASR.   sinc ei know peopl ein the industry i know a bit about ASR.  and this is heresey but i hear they are trying hard to change.  yes they have some large groups but they have stopped the super confrontal style that used ot be there.  they have theme groups based on grief, adoption and loss.    those groups happen everywhere throughout the United States. i hear they are making big changes because they have a clincal director who is just that clinical not into emotional growth style like ASR was previously.

okay just wanted to say that

[Anonymous]

Stop trying to disguise yourself, Who. It never works. Especially since you don't know the first thing about creating separate personalities. No capitalization, frequent typos, yet somehow perfect with the programmie-speak? Nigga please.

[Anonymous]

again milk gargling death penalty...i am not the who but this is what you do.   the who has his points but so do you but you accuse him of something he is not doing.

[Deborah]

i guess my issue with all of you is that none of you have even been to the school and know nothing for a fact.  face it i have read all of you say is fact but truth is all innuendo.  you hold up as fact stuff that happened 7 years ago in an article.  you hold as fact what some former students have said...that is not even fact in a court case it is opinion and heresey.

And, WHAT do you hold up as FACT? Can you substantiate anything the Who has claimed? Can you show that the therapist was licensed?  

you hold grudges against some programs like HLA which truly deserve to be closed down but never give anyone a chance to change improve or try new things.

Ya know, it's wasn't long ago that HLA was held out as the cream o' the crop program in the industry. Charging one of the highest rates for "treatment". Must be "good", ethical, unique; huh? It wasn't until the light was shown on HLA that the truth was reveiled. Let's shine the light on ASR. Full disclosure and transparency doesn't seem unreasonable. Might I add that HLA and ASR were both started by a staunch CEDU devotee and have continued with CEDU methods. What changes/improvements have been made? Just recently it was reported that condiments were withheld as punishment, among other things. I mean, how stupid is that? I can't even imagine putting my own kids on "bans" from condimentsj as punishment. What's the point, exactly? What's the "therapeutic" value added?  Can/will you address that?

you hold up this idea of licensure which is bullshit because there are active clinics and treatment centers where people work under another license, this is not just something that happens at ASR or other such places.

I'm not following your thinking. Can you give examples? Across the country, while there may be some variation, you can not provide therapy if you aren't licensed. And if your staff is not licensed, the the licensed professional on staff can only supervise a limited number of unlicensed staff. In Ga, that number was 3. What is it in Mass?

i am not saying you are wrong but this forum is bullshit because no one even considers any grey area at all.

You are off the mark here. This site exists to look at the "grey areas". If programs believe it is ethical to staff group "therapy" with unlicensed staff, then they need to disclose this to parents who are paying $6000/month and are under the assumption that their kid is being "treated" by licensed professionals. Do you have a problem with accountability. My god, that is the program mantra. Put the cards on the table and we'll see how they stack up.

[TheWho]

......Can you show that the therapist was licensed?

Deborah, this is pretty simple and basic stuff.  Either the Therapist is licensed or not?  I know she was... if the parents reading this thread has any doubts just ask the question when they visit ASR and talk to the therapist themselves, thats what I did, end of story.  You guys are nuts, why would anyone want to hide any of this stuff?   Its like the eye doctor or dentisit or any other doctor.  check it out people!!  and no I couldnt tell you the name of the eye doctor I saw last year either.. does that mean he isnt degreed? or doesnt exist?