Author Topic: The Who  (Read 862533 times)

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Offline Troll Control

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The Who
« Reply #1905 on: February 21, 2007, 11:01:53 AM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
you accuse this man of splitting hairs when the truth is what i stated before.  most programs of any type use a certain amount of unlicensed therapists.  these people work under another licensed therapists license until they accumulate enough hours to earn their own.  deborah since you are so into facts check each states laws and find out what everyone has to do to earn these hours.  i have worked in public treatments centers where we only had 2 licensed people we worked under their licenses until we earned our own.  places love this fact because they can pay these people less until they earn their licenses.  and i am not only speaking about ASR or HLA type program i am talking about all treatment programs in the country.   so please stop fighting agiainst each other and try to figure out how to improve these paces rather than condemn them because frankly i feel they are here to stay.


OK ,let me correct you here.  There are laws that govern how many counselors (who have already applied for a license) can be supervised by licensed staff.  

In Georgia, it's three.  Three people with licenses in progress can work under one already licensed provider.  This did not stop HLA from hiring counselors who had no education to even apply for a license, nor did it stop them from claiming one single person oversaw their entire staff of counselors.  When the authorities got wind, the party was over.

Explain, anon, how more than a dozen counselors at ASR can be working under the one single person with a license.  It's illegal.  Flatly, plainly illegal.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Troll Control

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The Who
« Reply #1906 on: February 21, 2007, 11:10:10 AM »
Quote
The Who wrote:
They had many group sessions involving the counselors and the kids

My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.


Hmmmm...Let's see.  Group "sessions" three times a week involving confrontation and revealing intimate details of personal lives, sex lives, etc, etc, etc. all "facilitated" by a "counselor."

I have news for you, Who.  this is called "group therapy" and one needs a license to conduct it.

Which licensed counselor provided this group therapy for your child?

Also, I agree with Deb.  It's simply inconceivable and unbelievable that someone who was "very involved" with your daughter's allegedly licensed therapist wouldn't be able to remember even her name.  Looked her up (you think?) on the web?  Read her degrees on the wall?  Followed up with her for after care?  Can't even remember her name???

Who, you're so full of shit it's not funny.   I don't see the problem with directly calling you a liar.  You've been caught lying and fabricating over and again, just like the last quote you posted and said I said it, but it wasn't me - you lied to try to make yourself look good and to make me look bad.  Deborah caught you red-handed (AGAIN).  

You are a consummate liar, Who.  You just can't stop getting caught for it every single time...
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Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #1907 on: February 21, 2007, 11:24:49 AM »
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote
The Who wrote:
They had many group sessions involving the counselors and the kids

My daughter never received therapy from an unlicensed person at ASR.

Hmmmm...Let's see.  Group "sessions" three times a week involving confrontation and revealing intimate details of personal lives, sex lives, etc, etc, etc. all "facilitated" by a "counselor."

I have news for you, Who.  this is called "group therapy" and one needs a license to conduct it.

Which licensed counselor provided this group therapy for your child?

Also, I agree with Deb.  It's simply inconceivable and unbelievable that someone who was "very involved" with your daughter's allegedly licensed therapist wouldn't be able to remember even her name.  Looked her up (you think?) on the web?  Read her degrees on the wall?  Followed up with her for after care?  Can't even remember her name???

Who, you're so full of shit it's not funny.   I don't see the problem with directly calling you a liar.  You've been caught lying and fabricating over and again, just like the last quote you posted and said I said it, but it wasn't me - you lied to try to make yourself look good and to make me look bad.  Deborah caught you red-handed (AGAIN).  

You are a consummate liar, Who.  You just can't stop getting caught for it every single time...


I see you are a little boxed in and angry we exposed the fact that ASR has licensed Counselors,  I would be embarrassed too, DJ.

Now on to you comparison of groups versus individual therapy.  My daughter received individual therapy from a therapist (I know this bothers you, but you cant bury the truth or make it go away).
Yes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.

We did this in our high school growing up.  Where is there a law against this.  The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on.  What law has been broken?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

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The Who
« Reply #1908 on: February 21, 2007, 11:43:42 AM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Yes, we are far from a court of law or you would all be sued for slander, Ha,Ha,.  Many times you or DJ accuse the school of not providing services or being license etc. we eventually prove you wrong.

Slander? Examples?

Quote
No, I am not going to research the old documents and provide names for everyone here, its not the way it works.  Kids come on here and tell their story and no one asks for proof, video or photos.  We are exchanging information.

Quote from: ""TheWho""
I am not going to research and provide links to peoples licenses.  I think , Deborah you would agree, the message should be that parents with kids going to ASR will ask for them and receive the same as I did.  The therapists are licensed and parents should ask to see their credentials (as I did) and have them loop back to their child?s home therapist.  Yes this is important!!


I did the research and posted it in the Aspen forum
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20728

10 ?Clinical Counselors?  1 ?Counselor?
9 are not licensed- 2 of those are expired
1 Licensed as a Mental Health Counselor
1 Licensed Certified Social Worker

Cohen, Ralph-  Psychiatrist ? Licensed as Psychologist in Hartford, Ct-License has expired or is inactive. The license is expired beyond 1 Renewal period.
Bartolomeo, Frank - Director of Counseling- not licensed
Valuski, Michael - Associate Director of Counseling- not licensed
Madeiros, Ness -  Pathways Program Counselor- not licensed
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 12:07:15 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #1909 on: February 21, 2007, 11:45:04 AM »
DJ..i got respect for you because like you i would like to see HLA shut down but you have to stop lumping these places together.  Read all of my posts.  ASR has 4 licensed counselors who supervise people.  they have 9 other counselors which falls under georgia's law very well.  i believe 3 or 4 of those counselors are awaiting the next testing date because they have finally accumulated enough hours.

PS.....ASR is not like HLA because none of its services are covered by insurance only the services provided by the outside consulting psychiatrists.   they know they would be committing fraud if they charged insurance for services they are not providing.

so there go based on wha ti know abou tthat program
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Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #1910 on: February 21, 2007, 11:56:28 AM »
Deborah, i appreciate that you can get so much information off the web.  it is truly a wonderous source but you know if you know people there you can ask about other questions.  there are 2 other licensed therapists there.  and as i said they have 3 or 4 in the paddock waiting.

this is why i keep saying you need more information you are assumptions based on what you get but you keep missing the mark.
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Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #1911 on: February 21, 2007, 12:04:58 PM »
*ignores the obvious troll*

Quote from: ""Deborah""
Cohen, Ralph Psychiatrist ? Licensed as Psychologist in Hartford, Ct-License has expired or is inactive. The license is expired beyond 1 Renewal period.


Someone explain to me exactly how a practicing shrink, in a warehouse full of kids, lets his license go like that?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #1912 on: February 21, 2007, 12:22:25 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
*ignores the obvious troll*

Quote from: ""Deborah""
Cohen, Ralph Psychiatrist ? Licensed as Psychologist in Hartford, Ct-License has expired or is inactive. The license is expired beyond 1 Renewal period.

Someone explain to me exactly how a practicing shrink, in a warehouse full of kids, lets his license go like that?


Its because it is not true (like everything else they say) , that?s why......He is licensed.  People here like to twist the facts to meet their own agenda,  Here is a link:

http://profiles.massmedboard.org/MA-Phy ... sp?ID=7087
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Offline Troll Control

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The Who
« Reply #1913 on: February 21, 2007, 12:32:31 PM »
Quote
Yes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.

We did this in our high school growing up. Where is there a law against this. The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on. What law has been broken?


If only this fantasy were true, Who.

The fact is that these are group counseling sessions, not "progress meetings."  This has been abundantly documented by people who actually went thru the program (confrontation, explicit details of sexual encounters, etc).  These are three times weekly "group therapy" sessions (call them what you want, they are what they are) facilitated by unlicensed staff.  This is illegal and it's called "providing therapy without a license" and it's a serious matter.

Now, Who, what type of high school did you go to that had three times weekly therapy sessions?  For that matter, what type of high school even has three times weekly "progress meetings" with counselors?  That doesn't even pass the smell test.  More BS from a BSer.  

Let's not forget that ASR is a spin-off of HLA, founded by the same person, based on the same model, running the same scams.

We'll just have to see what happens when the state intervenes.  I guess we will then know the full extent to which laws have been broken or circumvented.  I'm getting some folks together now that will be crawling through all of ASR's paperwork with the state and pointing out "irregularities."  I guess then we'll see where ASR stands on the legal issues.  

Remember, Who, you said all of the same things about HLA and you were wrong on all counts, as proven by ORS's reclassifying HLA as a Residential Childcare Facility, which is what ASR is also - a glorified treatment center with none of the patient protections or rights.  All it took was one person from one agency to start digging and the house of cards fell flat.
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Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #1914 on: February 21, 2007, 12:33:43 PM »
What's Ralph Cohen's middle initial?

I smell a rat..
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Offline Troll Control

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The Who
« Reply #1915 on: February 21, 2007, 12:38:50 PM »
Hey, Who, did you happen to remember yet the name of the licensed therapist with whom you were "very involved," whom your daughter saw every week for nearly two years and who interfaced with you and your daughter's therapist at home to arrange aftercare??  Seems like something one would remember with crystal clarity, doesn't it?

Which "Dr. Anna" was it?  Dr. Anna Nicole Smith?

Funny how you "remember" details of group counseling sessions that you never attended, but just can't seem to remember this woman's name, even though you were intimately (not sexually, but correct me if I'm wrong, Who) involved with her for two years... Hmmmmm....  Yeah, that sounds truthful, Who.

At least we now have determined that TheWho is actually Scooter Libby.
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Offline RobertBruce

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The Who
« Reply #1916 on: February 21, 2007, 12:44:01 PM »
Cindy,

1. What points specifically do you believe you've "proven us wrong" on?

2. What is your definition of "group therapy"?

3. How do you believe kids should prove their claims of abuse?

4. What specifically have you done to help the kids locked up in these places?

5. Why did you lie claiming ignorace concerning the fact that TBS's lie to state regulators?

6. Why do these places avoid regulation if as you claim they have the kids best interest at heart?

7. What TBS's are bad in your opinion and why?

8. Why dont the people you claim to work with defend you?

9. Why havent the people mentioned in your PM's shown up?

10. Should therapy be given by unlicensed people?

11. Do you believe yourself to have high level of credibility here on fornits?

12. Are you an "axe grinder" with an agenda here?

13.How does you shipping your daughter off to a kiddie prison qualify you to commentate on the entire industry and determine what information parents need and what they dont need?

14. Since we've established that many times the murders that occur in the PTS are swept under the rug or lied about, how can you determine they should not count as homicides?

15. What are the proper procedures for killing a child?

16. Why did you change your mind regarding your feelings on regulation?

17. Why do you believe the person feeding the 300+lbs counselor should be held respondsible for the kids death at Eckerd, when the counselor not only chose to over eat, but to sit on the boy as well?

18. How many program owners do you personally know?

19. How does the fact that you claimed no evidence existed of kids being abused at ASR not translate in your mind to you dismissing their claims?

20. Since you did not experience the school for yourself how can you claim it to be positive?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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The Who
« Reply #1917 on: February 21, 2007, 12:44:46 PM »
Quote from: ""Dysfunction Junction""
Quote
Yes, the kids and counselors broke into groups several times a week and had discussions, talked about progress,? how we doing? checks etc.

We did this in our high school growing up. Where is there a law against this. The problem with what you say and the reason you lose credibility is that you present no facts or laws to base your accusations on. What law has been broken?

If only this fantasy were true, Who.

The fact is that these are group counseling sessions, not "progress meetings."  This has been abundantly documented by people who actually went thru the program (confrontation, explicit details of sexual encounters, etc).  These are three times weekly "group therapy" sessions (call them what you want, they are what they are) facilitated by unlicensed staff.  This is illegal and it's called "providing therapy without a license" and it's a serious matter.

Now, Who, what type of high school did you go to that had three times weekly therapy sessions?  For that matter, what type of high school even has three times weekly "progress meetings" with counselors?  That doesn't even pass the smell test.  More BS from a BSer.  

Let's not forget that ASR is a spin-off of HLA, founded by the same person, based on the same model, running the same scams.

We'll just have to see what happens when the state intervenes.  I guess we will then know the full extent to which laws have been broken or circumvented.  I'm getting some folks together now that will be crawling through all of ASR's paperwork with the state and pointing out "irregularities."  I guess then we'll see where ASR stands on the legal issues.  

Remember, Who, you said all of the same things about HLA and you were wrong on all counts, as proven by ORS's reclassifying HLA as a Residential Childcare Facility, which is what ASR is also - a glorified treatment center with none of the patient protections or rights.  All it took was one person from one agency to start digging and the house of cards fell flat.


Look, you guys have an agenda, you throw accusations around like ASR doesn?t have licensed counselors, their licenses expired etc. and its all lies to smear them because they go against your position that there are no good TBS?s and all kids do poorly etc.

DJ, you have been caught in too many lies and fabrications in your need to suit your personal agenda?. Instead of trying to tear every building and discredit good people, you should be trying to help out some of the kids and work towards improvements in these areas.
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Offline RobertBruce

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The Who
« Reply #1918 on: February 21, 2007, 12:49:33 PM »
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
What's Ralph Cohen's middle initial?

I smell a rat..

As if that wasnt enough.



Quote
Ralph L. Cohen, M.D.

     I.            Physician Information
                   (The information in sections I - VI has been provided by the physician.)


So we have Ralph L who may have an active license but we have no outside source to verify, or we have Ralph S. who is inactive.

Which is it Cindy?
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Offline Anonymous

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The Who
« Reply #1919 on: February 21, 2007, 12:52:50 PM »
It's actually probably Ralph L. Googling for Ralph S. Cohen gives a professor of the subject who probably had no logical need to renew his license (as he's out of active practice).

Quote
Primary Work Setting:          Private Office
Business Address:       664 Main Street
Suite 54
Amherst, MA  01002


That doesn't sound like a TBS to me. This doesn't make much sense. Why would incorrect information be in a place like that?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »