The Who

[TheWho]

Aha?come on DJ?tell us how you really feel?data is only as good as the source ?. I have collected mine from NCES and court decisions and links and data received here on fornits?..I am sorry the data doesn?t support your opinions.  They are only hard numbers at this point.  I am trying to be as clear as possible......I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's:

Here take a look what I have so far:

I am attempting to change the layout (so bear with me) to facilitate easier comparison from year to year and clarify where the source data comes from.  Here is a first cut.

Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)

So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.  (Data set still open)*
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  (No data accumulated as of today)*

NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s

[psy]

Aha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see

I noticed the ?Troll? you mentioned.  When I heard people use this here I always thought it was given to people who were causing trouble or just interested in disrupting the conversation for fun.  I never knew it meant posters who went against the group speak or spoke against a majority.  If this is the case then I guess I would be considered a troll here on fornits, I would have to admit??  so actively trolling is more being stubborn and sticking with a minority position and refusing to join the group., interesting.

Neither.  A troll is like a devil's advocate really... only with different intentions. It's somebody who takes an unpopular position for the sheer sake of causing "drama" for lack of a better word.  If you're sincere.  By all means.  have at it.

I detest what you say, but i will defend to the death your right to say it

[psy]

I, for one, don't believe you're a troll.  You're just incredibly misguided on a number of issues.  Ignorance is actually a defense to trolling, as trolling requires willful deception.

What he's trying to say is you're in denial.  

Denial = Dont Even No I Am Lying...

Whee.  I learned that in pwogwam !

[RobertBruce]

Aha. So your "agenda" is simply to "facilitate debate/discussion"(troll) by making sure the discussion does not become too one-sided...(troll) i see

I noticed the ?Troll? you mentioned.  When I heard people use this here I always thought it was given to people who were causing trouble or just interested in disrupting the conversation for fun.  I never knew it meant posters who went against the group speak or spoke against a majority.  If this is the case then I guess I would be considered a troll here on fornits, I would have to admit??  so actively trolling is more being stubborn and sticking with a minority position and refusing to join the group., interesting.

Please don't try and make yourself some sort of martyr or hero for the underdog Cindy. You could give a shit about the underdogs of the world. The definition of a troll is not someone who goes against the majority on an issue, the definiition of a troll is someone who purposely derails conversations or presents knowingly false information. I'm going to have to go with Dysfunction on this one, you're so crazy and stupid enough to believe your own lies, so no I don't believe youre a troll in the slightest.

[psy]

Aha?come on DJ?tell us how you really feel?data is only as good as the source ?. I have collected mine from NCES and court decisions and links and data received here on fornits?..I am sorry the data doesn?t support your opinions.  They are only hard numbers at this point.  I am trying to be as clear as possible......I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's:

Here take a look what I have so far:

I am attempting to change the layout (so bear with me) to facilitate easier comparison from year to year and clarify where the source data comes from.  Here is a first cut.

Remember this applies only to TBS?s (not group homes and hospitals etc.)

So I am simple comparing a child?s safety at a TBS (24 hours per day) vs not being at a TBS (24 hours per day)
We have this data to present
:
July 1, 1999 thru June 2000

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,140 Homicides and 1,928 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 2 suicides.*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,059 Homicides and 1,890 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 1 suicide.  (Data set still open)*
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002  

Outside a TBS: -----There where 2,053 Homicides and 1,777 suicides (NCES)
Inside a TBS --------There where 0 Homicides and 0 suicides.  (No data accumulated as of today)*

NCES ? National Center for Education Statistics
* - Data found here on fornits, internet new articles, posts and PM?s

Hmm... this vaguely resembles something i might have seen before.. but i can't quite remember where.

[Anonymous]

Hmm... this vaguely resembles something i might have seen before.. but i can't quite remember where.

It was the last time you had uncontrollable diarrhea and took a gander into the bowl before flushing...

[RobertBruce]

Aha?come on DJ?tell us how you really feel?data is only as good as the source

Wrong psychward. I've looked at the same numbers as you, I just count everything while you pick and choose what you will and will not accept.

?. I have collected mine from NCES and court decisions and links and data received here on fornits?..

Still waiting on you to provide links to those court decsions youve mentioned so many times.

?..I am sorry the data doesn?t support your opinions.

The data does support his opinion, which would then make it a fact. You just refuse to look at all of it for fear of proving yourself wrong. Something the rest of us have done to you several times over.

They are only hard numbers at this point

With your own personal spin on them of course.

I am trying to be as clear as possible..

Yes Cindy, your bullshit is practically transparent.

......I am not claiming the data to be representing the entire industry, just TBS's:

Yet you already made a concluscion before looking at any of the data. Thus proving you have an agenda.

Here take a look what I have so far:

What you have? Since when? What happened to "we" psychward? Did the band break up? No matter, you have nothing but nonsense. Give me a moment and I'll show you what we have.

[RobertBruce]

Here's the first year:

Out of 52,000,000 public school kids 16 were killed in school

Translating to 1 out of every 3,250,000 kids being killed.

Out of those 52,000,000 6 committed suicide while in school.

Translating to 1 out of 8,666,667 kids killing themselves.

Of those same 52,000,000 kids 2140 were killed outside of school.

Translating to 1 out of every 24,300 kids being killed.

Of those same 52,000,000 public school kids 1928 kids committed suicide outside of school.

Translating to roughly 1 out of every 27,000 kids committing suicide.

Out of 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector so far we have 7 who were killed by staff members.

Translating to 1 out of every 2,857 kids being murdered by staff.

Of those same 20,000 kids 2 committed suicide.

Translating to 1 out of every 10,000 committing suicide.

This is of course for only one year June of 1999-July 2000

[RobertBruce]

The second year:

In the public sector out of 52,000,000 kids 2059 were killed outside of school, roughly translating to:

1 out of every 25,255 kids being killed outside of school.

Of those same 52,000,000 1,890 committed suicide outside of school.

Translating to roughly

1 out of every 27,513 kids committing suicide outside of school.

In school out of 52,000,000 17 kids were killed. Translating to:

1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being killed in school.

Of those same 52,000,000 5 kids committed suicide while in school.

Translating to:

1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in school.

In the Private Theraputic Sector out of 20,000 kids 6 kids were killed by staff members, translating to:

1 out of every 3,334 kids being killed by staff members.

Of those same 20,000 kids 1 committed suicide, translating to:

1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.

[psy]

oh dear.  here it goes again.  i'm leaving this thread.

[RobertBruce]

So for the 2001-2002 school year we have the following data regarding deaths in the public school/sector versus those in the private theraputic sector:

Out of 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 17 were killed while in school.

Translating to:

1 out of every 3,058,824 kids being murdered while in school

Out of those same 52,000,000 kids in the public sector 5 committed suicide while in school.

Translating to:


1 out of every 10,400,000 kids killing themselves while in public school.

Of those same 52,000,000 2,036 were killed in the public sector.

Translating to:

1 out of every 25540 kids being killed

Of those same 52,000,000 kids 1,772 kids committed suicide.

Translating to

1 out of every 29345 kids in the public sector killing themselves

In the private theraputic sector out of 20,000 kids 2 were murdered by staff members.

Translating to:

1 out of every 10,000 kids being murdered by staff members.

Of those same 20,000 kids in the private theraputic sector 1 committed suicide.

Translating to:

1 out of every 20,000 kids killing themselves.


At least its an improvement over the previous years I guess.  

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/crimeindica ... le_1.1.asp

[TheWho]

Denial = Dont Even No I Am Lying....
Hey I like that one, its a keeper....... I guess it means we can all be suffering from the same thing.......unwittingly screwing our lives up so we can prove to our parents they made a bad choice in getting us help?? hmm  or one of us hell bent on proving them wrong  and will go to any level to make it a point!  I guess it is possible.

Anyway, I am off for a few days, see if we can find some snow.  There sure isn?t any around here.  It is February and we haven?t had more than an inch of snow the whole season, so hang in??. I?ll think about the whole Troll/Denial thing while I am off.  

Hey bob, good work....see if you can find some data to fit 2003, we will be starting on that when we get back

[RobertBruce]

Sounds great. Good luck with your electroshock!

[RobertBruce]

What did I freaking tell you people?

[Anonymous]

Sounds great. Good luck with your electroshock!

No.