The Who

[Ganja]

No worries, Who. I wasn't really replying to what you said, just to you in general. Maybe you think this program helped your daughter, but further on up the road she may tell you some things that surprise & shock you. Be prepared for that.

[TheWho]

No worries, Who. I wasn't really replying to what you said, just to you in general. Maybe you think this program helped your daughter, but further on up the road she may tell you some things that surprise & shock you. Be prepared for that.

Thanks, I'll try to be.

[ZenAgent]

Yea, kind of eye opening isnt it, thats why I take lots of time off in between taking on a new challenge.

We don't need this cultural division, it upholds the self-interest on which the system feeds. A deconditioned consciousness of mutual respect is the only way to cure this disease.

Sorry, it was a knee jerk response

What did I say about the knees?  Pick up the classifieds, homeslice!

[Anne Bonney]

Yeah, my dad still thinks it was 'the right thing to do at the time'.  He's also fond of deluding himself into believing it was a 'family program' for a 'family disease'.  Cuz, ya know, the parents went through their raps too.  Like that's any fucking comparison to what we went through. :roll:  He likes to believe that it taught him where he was wrong as a parent but all it really did was reinforce his 'tough love' style of parenting but it was made even worse by him playing the victim (of my horrendous behavior). :roll:

[TheWho]

Yea, kind of eye opening isnt it, thats why I take lots of time off in between taking on a new challenge.

We don't need this cultural division, it upholds the self-interest on which the system feeds. A deconditioned consciousness of mutual respect is the only way to cure this disease.

Sorry, it was a knee jerk response

What did I say about the knees?  Pick up the classifieds, homeslice!

Ha,Ha

[Ganja]

Yeah, my dad still thinks it was 'the right thing to do at the time'.  He's also fond of deluding himself into believing it was a 'family program' for a 'family disease'.  Cuz, ya know, the parents went through their raps too.  Like that's any fucking comparison to what we went through. :roll:  He likes to believe that it taught him where he was wrong as a parent but all it really did was reinforce his 'tough love' style of parenting but it was made even worse by him playing the victim (of my horrendous behavior). :roll:

God, what did you do to your poor dad that was so terrible, Anne? Did you make him walk the plank?  :rofl:

[Anne Bonney]

I worried him.  That's part of what allows him to live with himself.  He tells himself that it was all because he was such a good parent and so concerned for my well being.

I was talking to one of my best friends about this the other day.  We've known each other since 9th grade so she saw what happened to me before and after.  What she cant' get over is the fact that I was the lightweight of our little crowd.  They were all into a lot more shit than I was.  They all grew up and grew out of the destructive, impulsive behavior that is adolescence.   I was put in Straight for "help" and I'm the only one of us that's had trouble making it in life.  That anecdotal evidence is staring my dad right in the face and he won't see it.  He still insists that I would have been deadinsaneorinjail.

[Nihilanthic]

I realize i'm repeating this but why the hell are parents so damned self victimizing? Why the attentionwhoring?

You're the one who went through hell, not them... they just look for attention (well, the program parent) and act as if they are above reproach for anything they ever do regarding their child at all... unless they start attention whoring about OH MY POOR CHILD WAS ABUSED I WAS SO FOOLED but still go ME ME ME about it all.

Its like you're their pet, vicarious liver-through, or just a psychological appendage!!!

WTF is wrong with everyone? You don't parent to get the feel-good warm fuzzies about 'parenting' you do it for that person you created and needs you to survive until they can make it on their own.

[Deborah]

That's the problem with WHO: he thinks HIS OPINIONS are actually "evidence." NOT!

Yeh, goes with the territory.

"In the initial findings of this multiphase study, teens whose emotional and behavioral functioning was previously described by their parents as 'clinically' impaired when they began residential treatment, was later described as 'normal' after treatment," said Dr. Ellen Behrens, lead researcher at Canyon Research & Consulting, Salt Lake City, Utah, which conducted the study. "Perhaps even more importantly, the teens themselves later rated their own emotional and behavioral problems in 'normal' ranges after treatment."

Hmm? What about the 98% who 'rebound'? Are they in the 'normal' range, and isn't that more to the point, in terms of what parents want to know?

"The findings are significant in that both the parents and the students reported tremendous improvement in their communications and personal family dynamics by the time of discharge from the treatment program," added Dr. Behrens. "In addition, both groups felt that student behaviors prior to treatment, including aggressiveness, withdrawal and rule breaking, had been diminished to 'normal' levels. [Is this considered "clinically impaired"?] This indicates that these changes were not only statistically significant but clinically meaningful to the family."

Sixteen (16) months to make improvement in communications and personal family dynamics? Not efficient, a waste of money, and too much time for the family to be apart. SuperNanny could accomplish that in 2 weeks.

Seriously, Behrens needs to divulge her relationship to Aspen. Wouldn't that be the ethical thing to do? As well as her and her staff's current involvement and past involvement with programs.
Then Jan Moss, NATSAPs pimp, jumps in and tries to apply the 'study' to the entire industry, when it only included 9 Aspen programs.

"Until now, our industry [our industry=9 Aspen programs?] has relied on anecdotal evidence and individual success stories [And still does. Isn't that what Behren's 'study' amounts to?] to substantiate the outstanding work that has been done by high-quality, private residential treatment programs throughout the United States," said Jan Moss, executive director of the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs, a national organization representing programs and professionals assisting young people with emotional and behavioral difficulties. "This research demonstrates what we've always believed -- that research-driven and evidence-based private residential programs can help turnaround teens in trouble. This information will give new hope to thousands of families who have been struggling with the difficult decision of how to best help a child."

We can only hope that it doesn't. Where is the evidence that RTCs use research-driven and evidence-based methods??? She needs to be sued for her fraudulent comments which mislead ppp's.

[TheWho]

I realize i'm repeating this but why the hell are parents so damned self victimizing? Why the attentionwhoring?

You're the one who went through hell, not them... they just look for attention (well, the program parent) and act as if they are above reproach for anything they ever do regarding their child at all... unless they start attention whoring about OH MY POOR CHILD WAS ABUSED I WAS SO FOOLED but still go ME ME ME about it all.

Its like you're their pet, vicarious liver-through, or just a psychological appendage!!!

WTF is wrong with everyone? You don't parent to get the feel-good warm fuzzies about 'parenting' you do it for that person you created and needs you to survive until they can make it on their own.

[/b]

Yeah!!  This is so true !!  The warm fuzzies are nice but some parents (people) see things as all about themselves and that is where the kids can get lost!!  If there is a problem it is a family problem and should be approached as such, there is no single victim.

[Nihilanthic]

You just self contradicted yourself.

You say the parents should be parents and look out for the kids, then say there is no single victim?

BRB gotta go stop my brains from leaking out of my ears.

[Nihilanthic]

Deb, I love how they throw in eleventy trillion little adjectives to what they say...

I'll summon the N-Bot for this.

*** N-BOT TRANSLATION FOR USER SELECTED FIELD BEGIN ***

Until now, our industry has relied on anecdotal evidence and individual anecdotes to substantiate the work that has been done by , private residential torture programs throughout the United States," said Jan Moss, . "This research demonstrates what we've always believed -- that research-driven and evidence-based private residential programs could help turnaround teens in trouble, if we would ever bother to work that way, and only treat kids with actual problems! This mis-information will give new hope to thousands of families who have been struggling with the difficult decision of how to best help a child, but mistakenly turn to us for assistance, granted they have a problem in the first place and it's not just parental hysteria and munchausen by proxy with a gulag twist.

*** N-BOT TRANSLATION FOR USER SELECTED FIELD STOP ***

[Anne Bonney]

I realize i'm repeating this but why the hell are parents so damned self victimizing? Why the attentionwhoring?

You're the one who went through hell, not them... they just look for attention (well, the program parent) and act as if they are above reproach for anything they ever do regarding their child at all... unless they start attention whoring about OH MY POOR CHILD WAS ABUSED I WAS SO FOOLED but still go ME ME ME about it all.

Its like you're their pet, vicarious liver-through, or just a psychological appendage!!!

WTF is wrong with everyone? You don't parent to get the feel-good warm fuzzies about 'parenting' you do it for that person you created and needs you to survive until they can make it on their own.

Yeah, I know what you mean.  Most of these parents can't really be bothered to actually parent their child.  Then when behavioral problems (real or perceived) crop up, they panic and go running off for 'help'.  Mine were too wrapped up in their own issues when I was growing up to really bother with me.  I felt very alone (only child too).  They separeted and then divorced when I was 14 and mom and I moved out.  I had just started high school and was switching from being sheltered in private school my whole life to public.  I did the normal smoking, drinking and general raising hell.  Skipping school, got in a car accident, change of friends...ya know, all those 'warning signs' TBSs are so fond of.  They got scared and put me in Straight.  So you've got pretty much this empty vessel.  Since mom and dad were so busy with their own lives and problems that they couldn't really be bothered to teach me anything about life, I really had no sense of self or roots.  Then heap two years of cult brainwashing and send me off into the world to be a well adjusted adult.  Riiiiiiiiight. :roll:  I did tow the line for a while and dad got to brag about what a good parent he was and how much he sacrificed for me to be able to attend the wonderful program that I did and how it saved my life and taught us so much as a family ::puke:: , but as soon as I began to question what had really gone on, I was quickly given an 'exit plan' so to speak.  As long as I rejected Straight and it's teachings I was cut off from the family.

[Nihilanthic]

Arguably being cut off was the only good thing they did.

I kinda lack having any sense of roots or 'home' or a past or lineage myself... it sucks, huh? Gotta go roll around before you put any roots down, and hope you bump into someone with a lil perspective willing to share it with you to help you situate yourself.

My own parents (well, sans one and his new wifey) aren't abusive/washy/lazy so much as basically destroyed by the actions of daddio and his bullshit screwing ALL of us over.

It just sucks having to grow yourself up with no family you're close to to get with, and you stand out compared to people who are actually grounded and have somewhere they're coming from to help them find out where they're going...

...but I think you understand that better than I.

At any rate, hows that piracy going?  :rofl:

[Anne Bonney]

He's real big on family history, just not so much on child rearing.  Everyone looks at my dad and sees this wonderful, brilliant, talented man.  Caring, but gruff sometimes.  The love him, think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.  That's also part of what made it more difficult to defeat that mentality.  Everything is done under the guise of love.  They all say, and believe, they're doing the right thing.  They've got all the lingo down pat, know just the right thing to say when questioned about any of this.  Program parents become the master manipulaters they accuse us of being.  

I just never felt like I fit anywhere.  I tried but I just didn't know how.  Sometimes I think things would have been different if I weren't an only child.  It's that sense of self thing.  I just had no idea who I was or how to live.  No perspective, so when I entered Straight I was like a lump of clay, ready for them to mold.  I had no grounding outside of program belief.  No one to bounce things off of and ask "is this OK?"  "does this sound right to you?".  I did what I was told because I really didn't know there was an alternative.