The Who

[Deborah]

Traditional, regular, no therapy boarding school....might suck, but not abusive. TBS that uses LGAT and confrontational tactics (ASR)? Abusive

Well we are getting closer, I?ll accept that for now.  As people come to see that ASR is not abusive, this will be a short divide to overcome.

Does ASR use LGAT or confrontational type therapy sessions or not?  Simple question, requiring a simple yes or no answer.

No they dont, at least when my daughter was there.

http://www.swiftriver.com/personal_growth.htm
The Academy at Swift River is a 16-19 month long program with an average length of stay of 16 months.....(shortened for brevity)

TheWho wrote:

LGAT without Behavior Modification, the whole point is to changes ones view or behavior. Although I am not sure how to define "Large Group" our group was approx. 18-24 people. I think the key is awareness. It is really not a bad thing to become aware. The behavior mod portion is there to drive the message home, through positive reenforcement typically (with parents) as any seminar would. The BM needs to be there if you want to be successful in selling anything.

Another person wrote:

Large Group Awareness Training or LGAT is a mechanism for promoting awareness change and rapid, thorough commitment to a cause or idea. LGATs tend to be brief but intense sessions of a few hours or days in which, ideally, participants adopt the message of the 'training' promptly and enthusiastically.

TheWho's response:

They use this in every corporation in America, how many companies want to train people over a period of 6 months to a year, they would go broke.

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... nar#159394

[Deborah]

Ganja,
You havin a hard time with Who getting grilled, or 'spanked' as it were? Or just bored? Is Who a friend of your's?
Would you prefer we discuss cars, pot, drinkin... somethin real productive.
Don't mean to be rude, just don't understand your insistence that this thread end. Talk to Ginger, see if she'll close it.

[Ganja]

Ganja,
You havin a hard time with Who getting grilled, or 'spanked' as it were? Or just bored? Is Who a friend of your's?
Would you prefer we discuss cars, pot, drinkin... somethin real productive.
Don't mean to be rude, just don't understand your insistence that this thread end. Talk to Ginger, see if she'll close it.

The answer to your question has already been clearly stated and I don't particularly care for your insinuations; totally uncalled for.

I would like to see Who and the rest of you do something else with their time for a while; that is all.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the long quote, but it's relevant.

Goodtobefree wrote:

Perhaps as a former student/client/survivor/inmate/whatever you want to call it, I can shed some light on the subject. I was in peer group 17, I was at ASR from October of 2000 to December of 2001. During my stay I was under the impression that the lifesteps were essentially unchanged from the start of the program up until then. I can't say anything about 2002 and onward. As was said before, they were about anger, insecurities, reconnecting with core self, (aka inner child) and forgiveness. They were held in the library in the academic building, and generally started around mid evening on a friday or saturday night, and lasted between 12 and 24 hours. Hard to tell exactly because they made a policy of taking our watches beforehand. All I know was that at the latest, we were asleep in our beds by the normal lights out the next night, except for the 4th lifestep, where we slept in tents overnight outside the library. That was about 36 hours altogether.
They definitely fed us, slightly less than usual, but more than adequate for a day's nutrition. As for sleep deprivation, we were up way past our bedtimes, which were tightly regulated, so any alterations to the routine were quite noticeable. While we were up late, full of anxiety and stress, we were subjected to a lot of yelling, a lot of exercises and workshops designed to illustrate how our behaviors were hurting us. There was a lot of crying, screaming, cursing, quiet time for writing, (read: kids can't talk, counselors walk around reading what's being written and pontificating about the topics being written about. My point is that it was very intense and quite overwhelming. I don't remember every single detail of the experiences, but I will try to include what I can.
The most memorable thing about the first lifestep was an exercise called dyads. This involved pairing up with a buddy and holding them while screaming at the top of our lungs all the things we hated our parents and ourselves for, for minutes at a time. I distinctly remember spitting up blood and being encouraged to continue screaming. There were also short group therapy sessions, there were exercises involving listing all the things our parents had ever done to hurt us, focusing on all the pain and suffering that we'd ever felt and how angry it made us. After all of us were exhausted we read letters our parents sent us about how much they loved us and why they chose to send us away. Needless to say there was a lot of crying.
The second lifestep had exercises where we had to sit in a circle, while one of us would walk around from person to person to hear whether that one or this one considered them a "giver" or a "taker". After we'd all judged each other we had to say to people why we felt this way about them. Some of this took the form of harsh criticism masked as praise. There were exercises involving how we judge ourselves and how we present ourselves to others. We had to wear cards around our necks that labeled us as one thing or another to supposedly demonstrate how restrictive the images we present to people can be. I remember carving images into cubes of sandstone to symbolize all the good qualities we had and who we really were. I also remember listening to Enya and other new age music, and doing a warped guided meditation which, rather than enhancing relaxation heightens emotions like guilt, sadness and fear. It was either in this lifestep or the third that we did an exercise involving manic, happy music, and all of us being instructed to smile until it started to hurt, and walk around laughing and smiling and looking at each other for about 5-10 minutes with the song on repeat. By the end many were crying, some were on the verge of hysteria.
The third lifestep was probably the most traumatic and damaging. It involved internalizing immense guilt. We had to write down anything and everything that we'd ever done to hurt ourselves, told how horrible it was, then forced to look at childhood pictures of ourselves that our parents had mailed to the school. Sitting there for what seemed like hours being yelled at because all the mistakes, impulses, and self destruction we'd gone through were "horrible things that we, as horrible people had done to the innocent children that we were" We were told to imagine all these wrongdoings being visited upon these children, as if we'd done them to some helpless little kid ourselves. Hurting yourself because you're horribly depressed is suddenly akin to torturing preschoolers. Talk about cognitive dissonance! We had to draw a symbolic portrait of ourselves involving all our interests, loves, etc., then tack the childhood picture to it. The other focus of this lifestep was the emotional manipulations or games that we use in an attempt to fill holes in our lives. We acted out all the games we each typically used, and had our peer group guess which one. Games such as playing the victim, using intimidation, attention games, the "everything is fine" game, etc.
The fourth lifestep involved a modified Native American sweat ritual. One of these took place before the first lifestep, almost a pre lifestep. This ritual was kind of like group therapy in a sauna, with some new age religious undertones. We were smudged with sage before entering the sweat lodge, there was a little discussion about purification. We talked about grudges we held, and how they weighed us down. To illustrate this concept physically, we took a long walk in the woods late at night, each of us carrying a rock about the size of a large melon and being lectured to about how we weigh ourselves down by not letting things go. We weren't allowed to put down the rocks, and the walk lasted somewhere between 1 and 2 hours. Being able to set down the rock was supposed to symbolize how good it feels to let go of anger and resentment. Perfect timing, the program's almost over, let's assuage some of the anger that comes from having a year of your life stolen.
All in all I would say that these lifesteps are a clear indication of the cult like way that the academy is run. In addition I would like to comment on the pervasive nature of the levels and punishment/reward system that was in effect. Profanity was punishable by doing pushups, we were continually encouraged to report each other for anything and everything, for our own good. Dish duty would be assigned for having a shirt untucked or for not cleaning the dorm before breakfast adequately. Being late to meetings or classes had similar consequences. Consequences, not punishments. There was no such thing as a punishment at ASR, just like there were no rules, only Agreements. Since you agreed to not do this or that, you had already accepted the consequence for breaking the agreement. I don't remember ever signing a contract, but then again, since as a minor you don't really have rights or the ability to sign contracts, none of that matters. The point is, it was a very effective technique for fostering obedience through guilt. You didn't just fuck up, you went back on your word and let down the school. The rule system was so pervasive it was difficult to make it through an entire day without breaking at least one. Privileges were removed at the drop of a hat. If you read too many books, you were avoiding people, and weren't allowed to read for pleasure. If you were rude or rowdy you might go on a restriction and lose the privilege of any and all recreational activity for between 1 and 4 weeks. Restrictions could involve being on "bans" with groups or individuals in the school, such as "bans with all lower school students", or all females, all males, etc. You couldn't talk to people you were on bans with or you faced serious consquences. This often caused difficulty in coordinating schoolwork with therapy. Restrictions ended when counselors felt you'd accepted whatever you'd done was horribly wrong and you felt horrible about it/learned something. Then you'd tell the whole school about it and apologize at the end of the day meeting.
Academics are another concern. The options for classes were limited, the teachers often weren't qualified. My chemistry teacher was an English major who was only a chapter ahead of the class each week. He was filling in until they found someone who knew chemistry. Most of the teachers, even those qualified to teach their subject, did not know how to deal with kids with learning disabilities, or kids who acted out constantly. This had a negative effect on the amount of actual teaching that got done. Student's writings, paintings, etc. were often censored for being to dark, too imagey, too negative, too sexual, etc. Reading material was restricted, the library was full of outdated books and random novels, all of it unorganized. On numerous occasions books I'd found in the library were confiscated, apparently even some of them weren't appropriate.
Inmates faced a barrage of emotional abuse from counselors and students alike. Students tried to curry favor by enforcing rules and ratting on others. Once an accusation of rulebreaking, innapropriate behavior, telling "warstories" i.e. talking less than disdainfully about anything ASR didn't like, such as drugs, sex, stunts we'd pulled that got us sent there. Challenging the rules for any reason was being manipulative, denying an accusation was being in denial. Getting upset at false accusations was an attempt to intimidate the accuser. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
At least a third of the inmates were on either wellbutrin or adderall. You got to see one of the 2 psychiatrists the school employed, no one from outside. You weren't allowed to refuse medication either.
Some of the other issues in the program were a lack of policies on various issues such as religions, sexual orientation, and a number of other things. For example, Rudy Bentz the headmaster would frequently speak of a higher power in thinly veiled judeo-christian propaganda terms, and there was a clear preference for mainstream religions. Shortly after 9-11 in a schoolwide discussion, he failed to reprimand or even comment on an inmate yelling in front of the school an insensitive comment about "fucking towelheads". Wiccan or Buddhist students were often slighted, or accused of using the religion as part of their image rather than professing a sincere belief. Big fucking christmas tree up in the common room, slight chanukah concession for the few jewish kids, nothing for anyone else.
On other occasions, I was told by certain counselors that I did not know what my sexual orientation was and I was going through a delusional phase where I mistakenly believed I was bisexual. Yet other counselors told me it was normal and natural and to trust myself. The lack of clear policies on these and other issues created untold confusion and despair.
All in all, I think the program has absolutely minimal potential to help anyone, and most of the help it offers comes solely from the extended period of time away from a harmful home environment, and the substantial reflection it necessitates. The entire premise revolves around group mentality, breaking down and moulding psyches, a complex reward and punishment system combined with censorship and constant, constant, constant reinforcement of obedience that comes from never knowing whether or not you're "in agreement" (currently not violating or witholding a confession about past violations of the rules), and always worrying about being punished.
Through the use of repetitive propaganda, peer pressure, and psycholinguistics, the process of conveniently rephrasing everything to give it a slant that is in line with the belief you're trying to force upon a captive population. Rules are agreements, punishments are consequences, shoveling snow for 6 hours is "getting back in agreement", expressing your feelings in an unapproved manner is either acting out or manipulative behavior.
The Academy at Swift River has done untold damage to hundreds of children whose only crime was being born to parents who held them to unreasonable standards, often abused them mentally, physically and sexually, often were alcoholics or drug addicts or suffered from mental disorders, and thought that money could fix their kid. There is a certain amount of accountability on the parents part, but it's pretty much lip service when you get right down to it. Kids are beaten, berated, treated as less than human, and shipped away to prison without a trial when they understandably start to act out in these circumstances. They go through a 14 month sentence of emotional torture under questionable auspices, subjected to the horrors I've described above. To claim that the parents who sent them there are being called to task because they have to go through a 3 hour group therapy session once every 3 months and hear about how they fucked up their kid doesn't even begin to address the issues at hand.
The whole thing is a twisted mixture of cult and psych ward, it should be burnt to the ground and its founders should be jailed.

The Who wrote:

Thank you for clarifying that. Your account mirrors closely to that of my childs, so I do believe you experienced what you say you did, although the accounts that I heard had a much more positive affect. Much of the detail is dramatically different.
I feel this further supports the fact that not every school is beneficial to every student and there needs to be a better screening process in place to help define which students will be successful.
Like any organization they may need to continue to monitor the training of their counselors, the success or failure of the life steps could be that simple (or very devistating) depending on how they are presented.
Yes, you are right the counselors are fully vested in the success of the kids they work with and want the best for them. This comes across very clearly with the ones I have met.

What Goodtobefree described is abuse.  You said it 'closely mirrors that of your child'.  Your child was abused.

[Deborah]

Ganja,
You havin a hard time with Who getting grilled, or 'spanked' as it were? Or just bored? Is Who a friend of your's?
Would you prefer we discuss cars, pot, drinkin... somethin real productive.
Don't mean to be rude, just don't understand your insistence that this thread end. Talk to Ginger, see if she'll close it.

The answer to your question has already been clearly stated and I don't particularly care for your insinuations; totally uncalled for.

I would like to see Who and the rest of you do something else with their time for a while; that is all.

And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.

I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.

[Anonymous]

And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.

I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.

 :rofl:

[Ganja]

And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.

Not really; I'm pretty caught up here on anything that looked remotely interesting...that's beside the point anyway..

I think a little time to digest what's gone down can sometimes be a healthy approach to having a discussion. Just a little breather... "What's the fucking hurry," I guess is what I'm thinking.

It's like you're worried that people are going to actually take his word as gospel truth or something, and I doubt this is the case. I merely express the desire for a hiatus is all.

[Ganja]

And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.

I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.

 :rofl:

You MUST be high.. just saying.

[Deborah]

[It's like you're worried that people are going to actually take his word as gospel truth or something, and I doubt this is the case. I merely express the desire for a hiatus is all.

Great then take a hiatus. Some of us WORK during the day and therefore respond when we can. Do you think we don't stop and think before we respond? Can't speak for everyone, but I do. It takes time to dig up his post from the past to refute his bullshit in the present.
I can appreciate that it's not interesting to you. I really can. There are many threads that bore the shit out of me. I don't go on and ask people to stop posting. I don't understand where you're coming from unless conflict is uncomfortable for you. If that's the case, then please take the hiatus.
Discussions ebb and flow on Fornits, as you well know. Who's been gone for a while. We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand.  :lol:

[Anonymous]

And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.

I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.

 :rofl:

You MUST be high.. just saying.

Oh lighten up.  I thought the last line was amusing.  But yes, I am.

[Ganja]

And I'm askin why it matters to you, someone who doesn't have a horse in this race. Stop reading the thread. Good god, there are hundreds/thousands more for your reading pleasure.

I asked questions, didn't 'insinuate' anything. If you're needing attention, we can join you on another thread if you like.

 :rofl:

You MUST be high.. just saying.

Oh lighten up.  I thought the last line was amusing.  But yes, I am.

I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.

[Anonymous]

http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &start=390

Who, you are one twisted fuck!!
     


Start at the top of the page.  His discussion with Goodtobefree.

[Ganja]

[It's like you're worried that people are going to actually take his word as gospel truth or something, and I doubt this is the case. I merely express the desire for a hiatus is all.

Great then take a hiatus. Some of us WORK during the day and therefore respond when we can. Do you think we don't stop and think before we respond? Can't speak for everyone, but I do. It takes time to dig up his post from the past to refute his bullshit in the present.
I can appreciate that it's not interesting to you. I really can. There are many threads that bore the shit out of me. I don't go on and ask people to stop posting. I don't understand where you're coming from unless conflict is uncomfortable for you. If that's the case, then please take the hiatus.
Discussions ebb and flow on Fornits, as you well know. Who's been gone for a while. We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand.  :lol:

Well it's only a matter of time; again, what's the fucking rush? Take your time, try not to forget... oh, nevermind that's Straight-edge stuff. Still some pretty rockin' shit though, without a doubt. Minor Threat. Anyway, I suppose it boils down to whether Who continues to listen to me or not..

[Anne Bonney]

I knew it! :rofl: I'll lighten up as son as I can- I'm expecting an important call so I shall hold off for now. Now log back in, sexy pirate lady.

Asshole! ::both:: :rofl:  :smokin:  ::bandit::  :wave:

[Ganja]

We are so very glad to hear from him again. Hope you can understand.  :lol:

I don't want to turn him off, just change his channel. Hopefully, Live at Leeds and some good smoke can start him on his way to a better life.