Challenge for Wilderness Supporters

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 10:37:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"All of the documentation supporting my position has been posted all over this forum, Who.  You already know this, now you're just hiding because you got called on the carpet for your nonsense.  The day I need you to restore my credibility, I'll just jump off a bridge. :lol:



And, please, stop projecting.  You don't rile me up at all.  Your whole argument is a farce and you can't sustain it.  



Why all the back-peddling?  You seemed so cock-sure of yourself before.  Gone limp, have we?
"

Nice shot at deflecting, I really didnt expect you had any proof, as usual, but thought I would give you a chance.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-21 10:46:00, TheWho wrote:


Nice shot at deflecting, I really didnt expect you had any proof, as usual, but thought I would give you a chance."

OK, well I've asked you for any evidence of your claim that most support and recommend TBS programs.  Can you provide me any?

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 10:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-06-21 10:33:00, TheWho wrote:


"

On 2006-06-21 10:30:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Professionals like Dr. Phil highly recommend TBS facilities.  That says a lot."

I guess you could count him if you want, to me he is a TV character."

Yeah well I meant that it says a lot that a fucking quack like that so highly recommends these places.  You're assuming I meant it was a good thing."

He recommends what ever he thinks will get viewers or increase ratings.  He is not a benchmark for other perfessionals or vice versa.  It is interesting to watch sometimes.

[Anonymous]

This doesn't speak specifically to recommendations of TB programs but it's interesting and speaks a lot to what I'm talking about with how teens are perceived.

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/fcs/human ... teens.html

"Positive stories about teens rarely make it into the headlines. But, believe it or not, nine in 10 teens do not get into trouble. Do we hear about those in the news?!

Whether children are toddlers or teens, preparing for parenting challenges is tough! The difficulty with teens is that they are becoming much larger, much more verbal, and are able to fight battles more on an adult level. They may experiment with risk taking, and the stakes are higher than at any other developmental stage to this point. Teens do not turn into teens overnight. There are three phases of adolescence that include the teen years: pre-adolescence (age 9 to 13), middle adolescence (age 14 to 16) and late adolescence (age 17 to 20).

During pre-adolescence, children feel disorganized, and their growth is rapid and uneven. They are not quite adolescents yet because their sexual maturity has not fully completed, and they are often referred to as tweens, meaning between the stages of childhood and teen years. Children try to meet the expectations of both parents and friends. Parents of pre-adolescents may feel less ready to face the new challenges than when their children were younger. They may feel more worried about the number of dangerous situations and substances to which youth are exposed. Parents should meet this stage with warmth, fairness, and even a sense of humor.

During middle adolescence, children may go ballistic over a few extra pounds, hair that won't stay in place, or fair-weather friends. During this time, parents may take on more a role of counselor. The warmth, affection, and positive communication of a counselor, however, must be balanced with the teen's need to be independent and in charge. One researcher found that teens seek information from friends on social events, dating, joining clubs, and other social life aspects while they turn to their parents for information on education, career plans, and money matters.

During late adolescence, there are many decisions to be made. Teens are beginning to disengage, and they often prepare to leave home about the same time their parents are reflecting on their own lives and needs. At this time, authority with children is redefined and there is a gradual shift toward economic and emotional independence. A new adult-adult relationship must emerge. "

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 10:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-06-21 10:46:00, TheWho wrote:



Nice shot at deflecting, I really didnt expect you had any proof, as usual, but thought I would give you a chance."

OK, well I've asked you for any evidence of your claim that most support and recommend TBS programs.  Can you provide me any?"

There is a link at the bottom of the study that DJ provided for his proof.  As soon as he posts his I will cut and past it for you or maybe he can just give us the link and I will find it for you.  Just give him a few more minutes, he might be having lunch.

[Anonymous]

An oldie but a goodie.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1224

Bashing Youth
Media Myths about Teenagers

By Mike Males


"Unplanned pregnancies. HIV infection and AIDS, other sexually transmitted diseases. Cigarettes, alcohol and drug abuse. Eating disorders. Violence. Suicide. Car crashes."

The 21-word lead-in to a Washington Post (12/22/92) report sums up today's media image of the teenager: 30 million 12- through 19-year-olds toward whom any sort of moralizing and punishment can be safely directed, by liberals and conservatives alike. Today's media portrayals of teens employ the same stereotypes once openly applied to unpopular racial and ethnic groups: violent, reckless, hypersexed, welfare-draining, obnoxious, ignorant.

And like traditional stereotypes, the modern media teenager is a distorted image, derived from the dire fictions promoted by official agencies and interest groups.

During the 1980s and 1990s, various public and private entrepreneurs realized that the news media will circulate practically anything negativeabout teens, no matter how spurious. A few examples among many:

* In 1985, the National Association of Private Psychiatric Hospitals,defending the profitable mass commitment of teenagers to psychiatric treatment on vague diagnoses, invented the "fact" that a teenager commits suicide "every 90 minutes"--or 5,000 to 6,000 times every year. Countless media reports of all types, from the Associated Press (4/4/91) to Psychology Today (5/92), continue to report this phony figure, nearly three times the true teen suicide toll, which averaged 2,050 per year during the 1980s(Vital Statistics of the United States).

* In a 1991 campaign to promote school-based clinics, the American Medical Association (AMA) and the National Association of State Boards of Education published a report that inflated the 280,000 annual births to unmarried teenaged mothers into "half a million," and claimed a "30-fold" increase in adolescent crime since 1950. In fact, 1950 youth crime statistics are too incomplete to compare, and later, more comprehensive national reports show no increase in juvenile crime rates in at least two decades. (Contrast, for example, the FBI Uniform Crime Reports for 1970 and 1992.) The facts notwithstanding, the national media (e.g., AP, 6/8/90) dutifully publicized the organizations' exaggerations.

* In the early '80s, officials hyping the "war on drugs" orchestrated media hysteria about "skyrocketing" teenage drug abuse at a time when, in fact, teenage drug death rates were plummeting (down 70 percent from 1970 to1982). In the late '80s, the same media outlets parroted official claims of a drug-war "success" when, in reality, youth drug death rates were skyrocketing (up 85 percent from 1983 to 1991--see In These Times,5/20/92).

Today, official and media distortions are one and the same. Who's to blame for poverty? Teenage mothers, declares Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala in uncritical news stories (see Los Angeles Times, 12/12/93) that fail to note that teenage mothers on welfare were poor before they became pregnant.

Who's causing violence? "Kids and guns," asserts President Clinton, favorably quoted by reporters (AP, 11/14/93) who neglect to mention that six out of seven murders are committed by adults. Who's dying from drugs, spreading AIDS, committing suicide? Teenagers, teenagers, teenagers, the media proclaim at the behest of official sources, even though health reports show adults much more at risk from all of these perils than are adolescents.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-06-21 10:46:00, TheWho wrote:

"

On 2006-06-21 10:37:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:


"All of the documentation supporting my position has been posted all over this forum, Who.  You already know this, now you're just hiding because you got called on the carpet for your nonsense.  The day I need you to restore my credibility, I'll just jump off a bridge. :lol:





And, please, stop projecting.  You don't rile me up at all.  Your whole argument is a farce and you can't sustain it.  





Why all the back-peddling?  You seemed so cock-sure of yourself before.  Gone limp, have we?

"

Nice shot at deflecting, I really didnt expect you had any proof, as usual, but thought I would give you a chance."

 :lol: "The Ultimate Flip-Flopper"

This is too funny.  You've come unraveled!

This is the true "Program Speak"!  When you're backed into a corner, just flip it on the kid.

How funny, Who, that you have now degraded yourself to such a level.  I knew you'd do it eventually, but geez, the wheels have come completely off!

You know full well that my position is supported by the Surgeon General, by professional associations, by ASTART, etc, but you try to crawl out of the crosshairs by making me do busy work to prove what is already self-evident and abundantly documented dozens of times on this site.  

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when at first we practice to deceive..."

Shame on you, sir, for your spinelessness, duplicity and lack of integrity!

Q: "Where are the weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President?"

A: "Bill Clinton lied about sex!"

So utterly pathetic, Who, even for you...

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-21 11:00 ]

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 10:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"This doesn't speak specifically to recommendations of TB programs but it's interesting and speaks a lot to what I'm talking about with how teens are perceived.



http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/fcs/human ... teens.html



"Positive stories about teens rarely make it into the headlines. But, believe it or not, nine in 10 teens do not get into trouble. Do we hear about those in the news?!



Whether children are toddlers or teens, preparing for parenting challenges is tough! The difficulty with teens is that they are becoming much larger, much more verbal, and are able to fight battles more on an adult level. They may experiment with risk taking, and the stakes are higher than at any other developmental stage to this point. Teens do not turn into teens overnight. There are three phases of adolescence that include the teen years: pre-adolescence (age 9 to 13), middle adolescence (age 14 to 16) and late adolescence (age 17 to 20).



During pre-adolescence, children feel disorganized, and their growth is rapid and uneven. They are not quite adolescents yet because their sexual maturity has not fully completed, and they are often referred to as tweens, meaning between the stages of childhood and teen years. Children try to meet the expectations of both parents and friends. Parents of pre-adolescents may feel less ready to face the new challenges than when their children were younger. They may feel more worried about the number of dangerous situations and substances to which youth are exposed. Parents should meet this stage with warmth, fairness, and even a sense of humor.



During middle adolescence, children may go ballistic over a few extra pounds, hair that won't stay in place, or fair-weather friends. During this time, parents may take on more a role of counselor. The warmth, affection, and positive communication of a counselor, however, must be balanced with the teen's need to be independent and in charge. One researcher found that teens seek information from friends on social events, dating, joining clubs, and other social life aspects while they turn to their parents for information on education, career plans, and money matters.



During late adolescence, there are many decisions to be made. Teens are beginning to disengage, and they often prepare to leave home about the same time their parents are reflecting on their own lives and needs. At this time, authority with children is redefined and there is a gradual shift toward economic and emotional independence. A new adult-adult relationship must emerge. "

"

Thank you so much, anon.  Someone showed me this about 6 years ago and I always wanted a copy.  I think the most compelling to me was ?Myth #5? and gives rise to many questions a parent may have about their teenager and what may drive their behavior and gives a little insight as to what is going on with them.  I think it was in a magazine about 8 years ago, anyway, thanks I am going to archive this.  You should save this and give it to parents to read who have teens at home.

[TheWho]

Awe shucks DJ, you don?t have to compare me to presidents of the US, especially Clinton, I feel I should have a cigar in my hand.  I am not worthy, I am not worthy?.

[Troll Control]

There is a link at the bottom of the study that DJ provided for his proof. As soon as he posts his I will cut and past it for you or maybe he can just give us the link and I will find it for you. Just give him a few more minutes, he might be having lunch.

"If you want to destroy my sweater
Pull this thread as I walk away (as I walk away)...

Watch me unravel. I'll soon be naked.
Lying on the floor, lying on the floor...

I've come undone!"[/b]

Who, you are good for a laugh!  Your belly must be so full from eating your words that you look like Cool Hand Luke lying on the table! :lol:

[Anonymous]

Come on guys.  Let's not have this degenerate into a Robert Bruce/SHH kind of thing, huh?

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 11:09:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

There is a link at the bottom of the study that DJ provided for his proof. As soon as he posts his I will cut and past it for you or maybe he can just give us the link and I will find it for you. Just give him a few more minutes, he might be having lunch.

"If you want to destroy my sweater

Pull this thread as I walk away (as I walk away)...



Watch me unravel. I'll soon be naked.

Lying on the floor, lying on the floor...



I've come undone!"[/b]



Who, you are good for a laugh!  Your belly must be so full from eating your words that you look like Cool Hand Luke lying on the table! :lol:
"

Thanks, I like the "Cool Hand Luke" analogy, good visual.  One of my top 10 movies.   So the bet was that Paul Newman couldnt eat 50 hardboiled eggs.  

How many did he eat?  Do you remember

[Troll Control]

It is a great flick!  Definitely one of my top ten, too and Newman's best picture, IMHO.

Let me drop another gem on you that's more germane than the number of eggs he ate:

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men."[/i]

Who, this fits you to a "t," buddy!

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 11:28:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"It is a great flick!  Definitely one of my top ten, too and Newman's best picture, IMHO.



Let me drop another gem on you that's more germane than the number of eggs he ate:



"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men."[/i]



Who, this fits you to a "t," buddy!


"

Struthers Martin, Classic !!!!

[odie]

Is this the point where you guys kiss and make up?....This has been funny watching I got to admit. Some classical put downs from both sides. :wave:

...and in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.

(Jury nullification. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!)
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/VC/visitor_info/creating/constitution.htm' target='_new'>Declaration of Rights, PA Constitution