Challenge for Wilderness Supporters

[Troll Control]

The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track...

This is an unmitigated crock of shit.  Show the documentation that supports this ridiculous notion.

And yes I believe we are all on equal footing and have a right to state our opinions from our own experiences.

Everyone here has the unabridged right to post what they want.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  

Your opinion happens to be wrong.  It is so wrong that you have to fabricate statements like the one above stating the "overwhelming majority of professionals" recommend this treatment.  You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  But, hey, that never stops you! :lol:

[Troll Control]

On 2006-06-21 09:18:00, wild fig wrote:

"Here we go again!  I used to get abused for not having a login-  now I do, and I'm still being accused of posting anon.  I do not post anon because I don't want to be mistaken for some of the crackpots around here.  "

Can I have a moderator verify this?  Just give the word...

We finally had to do it with The Who.  We can do it for you. too - for clarity's sake.

[TheWho]

DJ Wrote:
That being said... Making the topic into a referendum on me is just a tactic to derail the debate by some who cannot support their untenable positions. The Who does this regularly and "Wild Fig" (or whatever she calls herself today - she uses several different login names as well as posting anon) just can't get any story straight on any subject and is a classic polemicist.

So now we are making the topic a referendum on you, DJ.
So you come on here this morning jump into a conversation and attack everyone, start name calling and now you want to play the victim ?
What the heck is going on here?
Are you looking for an apology?  

Go back to your first post this morning and read thru to now and rethink what you are saying, you don?t make sense.

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 09:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track...

This is an unmitigated crock of shit.  Show the documentation that supports this ridiculous notion.

And yes I believe we are all on equal footing and have a right to state our opinions from our own experiences.

Everyone here has the unabridged right to post what they want.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  



Your opinion happens to be wrong.  It is so wrong that you have to fabricate statements like the one above stating the "overwhelming majority of professionals" recommend this treatment.  You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  But, hey, that never stops you! :lol:
"

The professionals just dont support your views DJ.  Its not my opinion it is theirs.  They prove it every day, thats what they do is make decisions for kids in their care.  You claim to be a professional, you should know this.  These professionals have more experience, degrees and more timely information than you do.  They also continue to learn about the industry not live in the past, wake up.

[Troll Control]

The professionals just dont support your views DJ. Its not my opinion it is theirs.

OK, so now we established that you can't provide any data/sources/facts to support this nonsense.  If it's such an obvious thing, surely you can support it, no?

So we're back to it being just your opinion again.

Let's move on.  You're circling the drain here.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-21 09:14:00, TheWho wrote:


The overwhelming majority of professionals believe these schools are making a big difference in these kids lives and are responsible for turning them around and getting them on track.

Quite a few are, yes (that's one of the things that scares me the most).  But I don't believe it's the "overwhelming majority". If you have any evidence to back this up I'd certainly be willing to entertain it.

What's your opinion of therapeutic communities in general?  What do you think of the origins?  How do you reconcile the fact that TBS are based on the cult tactics?  Not just a few phrases borrowed here and there or just an idea or two but the very fundamentals that were found to be so destructive.  This is not a good idea gone bad or something that could use improvement.  The very basics of how and why it 'works' (as in it does modify behavior, that doesn't mean it's a good thing) are destructive.  It's like trying to improve the taste of shit by dousing it with all kinds of spices.  It's still shit.

[TheWho]

Okay lets see where is that link again, I think it was with yours, DJ, when you said:

What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.

Lets view this a little differently.  If a parent is able to afford a private TBS for a year or two why would he employ a second rate crackpot (as you call it) with a degree from ?Dysfunction Junction University?, working out of his basement,  to attend to his kids emotional needs.  You just dont get it or either refuse to see it, DJ, these are the top therapists/Hospitals in the country who are recommending some of these places.  Its fact and if you want to search for a study on this, knock yourself out, we all know what you will find.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-06-21 09:48:00, TheWho wrote:

"Okay lets see where is that link again, I think it was with yours, DJ, when you said:



What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.



Lets view this a little differently.  If a parent is able to afford a private TBS for a year or two why would he employ a second rate crackpot (as you call it) with a degree from ?Dysfunction Junction University?, working out of his basement,  to attend to his kids emotional needs.  You just dont get it or either refuse to see it, DJ, these are the top therapists/Hospitals in the country who are recommending some of these places.  Its fact and if you want to search for a study on this, knock yourself out, we all know what you will find.

"

Exactly what I expected from you.  Make a false statement, try to wiggle out of it, spin it relentlessly and finally ask someone else to prove it's not true.

You would fail philosophy 101, Who.  You made a statement, now you provide the proof.  It's not my burden to disprove your nonsense, it's your burden to prove it.

Anyone who is in the business knows what you're saying is completely false.  You can't stamp your feet and throw a tantrum to deflect the focus.  You made a mistake, made an utterly false statement (like so many times before) and now you don't want to account for it (yet again).  That's your problem for you to deal with.

Again, "show your work" that "2 + 2 = 5."  Your opinion won't suffice as an answer.  Support your position with documentation or abandon your position - it's basic debate.  Operate within the framework or take your nonsense elsewhere.

[TheWho]

What's your opinion of therapeutic communities in general?

Well for TBS', I think they are badly needed and under regulated

What do you think of the origins?

Not real familiar with the history of TBS


 

How do you reconcile the fact that TBS are based on the cult tactics?

I don?t reconcile it at all.  The world has evolved out of horrendous times and barbaric systems and ideals.  Behavior modification can be abused but if used properly it is also a necessary and useful practice.

It's like trying to improve the taste of shit by dousing it with all kinds of spices. It's still shit.

Yes but if you take it out of your mouth and put it in the ground you can grow something very nutritional that is necessary for your body to grow.

This is part of my point of being here.  I want you to look every event, function from several different angles, look for other uses, points of view, opportunities.  Step off the bandwagon .  People talk about Behavior Modification like it is evil, when in fact most of us were potty trained using it when our mothers said ?Good Job?, it was the very essence of the self esteem that we grew inside of ourselves.  It is all around us and we all use it everyday.  Can it be abused, of course.  Does everyone abuse it , no.

[Troll Control]

On 2006-06-21 09:23:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

On 2006-06-21 09:18:00, wild fig wrote:


"Here we go again!  I used to get abused for not having a login-  now I do, and I'm still being accused of posting anon.  I do not post anon because I don't want to be mistaken for some of the crackpots around here.  "

Can I have a moderator verify this?  Just give the word...



We finally had to do it with The Who.  We can do it for you. too - for clarity's sake.
"

boy, you sure did disappear quick, wild fig.  why won't you answer this?

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 10:07:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

On 2006-06-21 09:48:00, TheWho wrote:


"Okay lets see where is that link again, I think it was with yours, DJ, when you said:





What you fail to recognize is that my "opinion," as you state, is the prevailing view of professionals around the world, just like evolution and the spherical globe.





Lets view this a little differently.  If a parent is able to afford a private TBS for a year or two why would he employ a second rate crackpot (as you call it) with a degree from ?Dysfunction Junction University?, working out of his basement,  to attend to his kids emotional needs.  You just dont get it or either refuse to see it, DJ, these are the top therapists/Hospitals in the country who are recommending some of these places.  Its fact and if you want to search for a study on this, knock yourself out, we all know what you will find.


"

Exactly what I expected from you.  Make a false statement, try to wiggle out of it, spin it relentlessly and finally ask someone else to prove it's not true.



You would fail philosophy 101, Who.  You made a statement, now you provide the proof.  It's not my burden to disprove your nonsense, it's your burden to prove it.



Anyone who is in the business knows what you're saying is completely false.  You can't stamp your feet and throw a tantrum to deflect the focus.  You made a mistake, made an utterly false statement (like so many times before) and now you don't want to account for it (yet again).  That's your problem for you to deal with.



Again, "show your work" that "2 + 2 = 5."  Your opinion won't suffice as an answer.  Support your position with documentation or abandon your position - it's basic debate.  Operate within the framework or take your nonsense elsewhere.
"

Didnt mean to rile you up, but you are so confrontational today.  Show me your document that says your opinion is in line with the "prevailing view of professionals around the world", and I will give you back some of your credibility.

I think we may be getting close to bringing out the "Dead Horses"

[Anonymous]

Professionals like Dr. Phil highly recommend TBS facilities.  That says a lot.

[TheWho]

On 2006-06-21 10:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Professionals like Dr. Phil highly recommend TBS facilities.  That says a lot."

I guess you could count him if you want, to me he is a TV character.

[Troll Control]

All of the documentation supporting my position has been posted all over this forum, Who.  You already know this, now you're just hiding because you got called on the carpet for your nonsense.  The day I need you to restore my credibility, I'll just jump off a bridge. :lol:

And, please, stop projecting.  You don't rile me up at all.  Your whole argument is a farce and you can't sustain it.  

Why all the back-peddling?  You seemed so cock-sure of yourself before.  Gone limp, have we?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-21 10:33:00, TheWho wrote:

"

On 2006-06-21 10:30:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Professionals like Dr. Phil highly recommend TBS facilities.  That says a lot."

I guess you could count him if you want, to me he is a TV character."

Yeah well I meant that it says a lot that a fucking quack like that so highly recommends these places.  You're assuming I meant it was a good thing.