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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2006, 11:03:00 PM »
How much are you getting out of this again TSW?
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Offline Joyce Harris

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« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2006, 12:21:00 AM »
3 Springs: I wanted to respond to your statement, "kids in a program perform a group beat down not out of respect for thier counselors, but out of self preservation."

I don't totally disagree with your statement:
But at Whitmore Academy; the program kids were ordered to gang up on and beat up their fellow students by the owner of the facility--so there are different reasons for "group beat downs" than self-preservation.
OFTEN kids are MADE to beat up each other for the mere sick satisfaction, and enjoyment of these facility owners.
The kids must obey; or they become the "target."
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2006, 01:05:00 PM »
Quote
Thus far you have again and again attempted to connect completely unrelated facts to prove some bizzare conclusions.

Thus far I have connected statements made by you to prove some apparent points and highlight the glaringly obvious contradictions within your standpoint. The most obvious one - and the one you completely failed to address ? being?: Hitting children does not teach them anything. Contrary to what you persistently claim, slapping children is not going to solve any of societies problems.

 
Quote
You call getting a slap in the mouth abuse. You further claim that because I was slapped in the mouth and spanked on the ass I gravitated towards negative situations and therefore perpetuated a cycle of violence when I worked at a TBS.

Ok now why should I respond to such utter tripe? Even a friggin moron could figure out that the two events are completely unrelated.

Ok first off... Did you even read my post? I never 'claimed' that the two WERE related; I merely suggested it as a possibility. Suggestions are not claims. Why you've attacked the one thing that I clearly and explicitly said was purely a POSSIBILITY, and not something I claimed to be fact, is beyond me. Like I already said? "I?m not saying you?re wrong on this...?

Quote
You call getting a slap in the mouth abuse.

Where did I say this? Please point it out to me. The only times I even mentioned the word abuse was in reference to drug users (abusers) and the abuse that occurs within the programs. Don't go jumping to conclusions. I don't consider a slap on the wrist 'abuse'. However, even if I did, you are still missing the point. Which is:

HITTING CHILDREN DOES NOT TEACH THEM ANYTHING!

Nor does it prevent crucifixes being dunked in piss or children being sent to terror camps. What you clearly fail to understand is that many of the children within these programs had just the type of stern-iron-fist-parenting that you advocate. Yet, you claim that this type of upbringing is what?s needed to keep them out of the programs. Do you see how obtuse this appears? I find it amazing that someone with such primitive ideas even knows how to use a computer. Healing societies ills ? or at least curbing teenage problems - does not simply come down to parents slapping their children when they are out of line. This IS your stance on the matter, am I correct?...
   
Quote
....That's the spirit.. Didn't say break him in two, but damn.. society has gotten so consquence free from all the absurd p.c. stupidity no wonder so many kids go wrong.

When I was coming up as a young sprout I remember a friend of mind mouthing off to a teacher. He caught a beating during recess from a couple of other kids


And...

Quote
If parents actually gave half a shit about their kids and were not such damn doormats then TBS programs would not be such a booming industry.

I'll say it again? Many of the children within these camps were raised using the parenting methods that you think will keep them out.

Quote
Second you claim that kids who beat the hell out of each other on the playground is exactly like kids who beat the hell out of each other in a program. First of all you are so wrong its not even funny. Another wild claim strung together to prop up your dead ass stupid arguement. Kids in a public school are not subjected to group consquences hence they do not have the same motivations as kids in a program. Kids in a program perform a group beat down not out of respect for their counselors, but more out of self preservation. They feel out of desperation that if they do not resort to physical violence on a peer then they will suffer for his actions via group consquences. Kids at school are motivated by entirely different reasons

Wrong! First of all, I was saying that a public school where kids are permitted to ?take the law into their own hands? in order to silence ?troublemakers? is essentially no different than what occurs in a program. In other words: a school where children are given sovereignty to beat another child en masse as a ?consequence? for breaking the rules or misbehaving is in no way dissimilar to the way programs operate. Yet this type of public school is, after all, what you seem to be yearning for?

Quote
?When I was coming up as a young sprout I remember a friend of mind mouthing off to a teacher. He caught a beating during recess from a couple of other kids.

??OH no.. poor jonny got beat up on the play ground at school for mouthing off to his teachers. Gee... no shit Jonny.. stop mouthing off then

If you support this kind of system within public education, I can hardly see why you would be so against the programs. Promoting and advocating that it?s acceptable for children to beat up kids who ?mouth off? and misbehave will only result in program-esque public schools. I was not, as you stupidly assumed, claiming that kids in public schools are not subject to group consequences. However if you want to argue that?

?You are wrong here also. Kids in public schools are subject to group consequences. It?s far more concentrated and severe in programs but it occurs in public schools nonetheless. It happens quite frequently and is usually the product of a penalty known as ?collective punishment?. Teachers use it regularly. When one child misbehaves the whole class is punished as a collective. Sometimes the ?innocent? children will harass, taunt and abuse the troublesome ?guilty? child in a misguided, or perhaps subconscious, attempt to prevent future penalties.

Anyway, this is all besides the point? Let?s get back to the main discussion which you completely avoided. It goes like this: Spanking/slapping/hitting children DOES NOT prevent them from misbehaving. It DOES NOT teach them anything. IT DOES NOTHING! The funny thing of course, is that I have used an individual (you) who claims that physical punishment prevents problems to prove that it doesn't. Ah, the irony... Anyway here is the stuff you completely ignored...

According to you, hitting children is beneficial and can ?teach? them ?lessons?. For example: Hit children if they cuss so that they shall no longer cuss. Here is what you said...
Quote
I sassed my grandma once and got my mouth half slapped off my head by my grandma. I used a foul word in front of my mum and got my ass whipped so hard it still hurts to think about it.

First of all in never slapped a kid in my life. If I ever have children and one cusses me I will take a belt to his or her ass right quick and in a hurry, but never have I slapped or spanked kids in a program. .

?Fuckwad, dipshit, limp dicks, Fuck no!, fuck, fucked up, etc etc?

If parents actually gave half a shit about their kids and were not such damn doormats then TBS programs would not be such a booming industry.

Here are the obvious conclusions that most rational, logical, sane people will make using the above comments...

Quote
So, beating children teaches them to behave and become better adults? According to the above quote you yourself were beaten as a child for cussing, were you not? Now, correct me if I?m wrong, but you also condone the use of violence in order to teach children ?lessons?. Now you can re-read your posts and tell me if you really learnt your lesson about cussing? I suggest you go at once to your mother and ask for another beating! Your lesson was clearly, plainly and obviously not learnt.

*Good parenting, according to you, is what?s required to end the programs.
*Good parenting, as far as you?re concerned, involves beating children if they misbehave to teach them a lesson.
*You had, by your definition, ?good parents? since they beat you when you cussed.
*Your parents? beatings taught you nothing as you continue to cuss.
*Therefore you?ve totally contradicted your own rule!!
*...Thus proving that beating children to teach them a 'lesson' doesn't do a damn thing!

There was also this little nugget of wisdom that you neglected to rebut...

Firstly, you said this...
Quote
 My so called "cycle of violence" is more of this Al Gore Douche Bag liberalism in living color.

...and I replied with the blatantly obvious...

Quote
You are wrong. The cycle of violence is evident in your very own words. You were beaten as a child for cussing and you choose to beat your own children should they ever cuss. However, being beaten clearly never taught you that cussing is bad as you continue to cuss. Go ahead, beat your children when they cuss and then take a look at yourself to see where it?ll get them. Nobody learns a single thing! The only thing you?re left with IS a cycle of violence. Nothing more, nothing less.

Also, from what I can gather you seem to have complete disdain for drug dealers, correct?

Quote
If he was murdered I would have stated that. Do I feel bad about what happened to him? Fuck no. He deserved much worse for selling drugs

And yet you completely avoided my thoughts on the inherent contradictions within your stance on drug dealers and the program detainees...

Quote
?So you do know what happened to him? What did he deserve? You must keep in mind that although you profess to dislike the programs for what they do to detainees, many of the kids within them are drug dealers, drug users and drug abusers. These programs exist for kids purportedly involved with drugs. Yet you claim drug dealers deserve worse than ?being disappeared?. Unless ?disappear? does in fact mean that he got a trip to France your statement implies that they should be in the programs being abused and beaten and perhaps - if you?re really lucky ? ?disappeared?. The implication with this is that the programs must be good; as they deal with the supposed drug dealers you hate so much. Again, there is a massive hole in your reasoning
And...
Quote
Or conversely, that the drug dealer you so despised was, like you, ?thrust into a desperate situation at the time? when he felt he ?had no other options?? What separates your mistakes from his? Why should you be so deserving of special treatment? Does your compassion only extend to yourself?


Please respond to everything I say next time. It saves me having to re-post everything and saves everyone else from re-reading it. I have responded to your statements so why do you circumvent mine?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2006, 10:46:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-06-25 10:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote
Thus far you have again and again attempted to connect completely unrelated facts to prove some bizzare conclusions.



Thus far I have connected statements made by you to prove some apparent points and highlight the glaringly obvious contradictions within your standpoint. The most obvious one - and the one you completely failed to address ? being?: Hitting children does not teach them anything. Contrary to what you persistently claim, slapping children is not going to solve any of societies problems.



 
Quote
You call getting a slap in the mouth abuse. You further claim that because I was slapped in the mouth and spanked on the ass I gravitated towards negative situations and therefore perpetuated a cycle of violence when I worked at a TBS.



Ok now why should I respond to such utter tripe? Even a friggin moron could figure out that the two events are completely unrelated.



Ok first off... Did you even read my post? I never 'claimed' that the two WERE related; I merely suggested it as a possibility. Suggestions are not claims. Why you've attacked the one thing that I clearly and explicitly said was purely a POSSIBILITY, and not something I claimed to be fact, is beyond me. Like I already said? "I?m not saying you?re wrong on this...?



Quote
You call getting a slap in the mouth abuse.



Where did I say this? Please point it out to me. The only times I even mentioned the word abuse was in reference to drug users (abusers) and the abuse that occurs within the programs. Don't go jumping to conclusions. I don't consider a slap on the wrist 'abuse'. However, even if I did, you are still missing the point. Which is:



HITTING CHILDREN DOES NOT TEACH THEM ANYTHING!



Nor does it prevent crucifixes being dunked in piss or children being sent to terror camps. What you clearly fail to understand is that many of the children within these programs had just the type of stern-iron-fist-parenting that you advocate. Yet, you claim that this type of upbringing is what?s needed to keep them out of the programs. Do you see how obtuse this appears? I find it amazing that someone with such primitive ideas even knows how to use a computer. Healing societies ills ? or at least curbing teenage problems - does not simply come down to parents slapping their children when they are out of line. This IS your stance on the matter, am I correct?...

   

Quote
....That's the spirit.. Didn't say break him in two, but damn.. society has gotten so consquence free from all the absurd p.c. stupidity no wonder so many kids go wrong.



When I was coming up as a young sprout I remember a friend of mind mouthing off to a teacher. He caught a beating during recess from a couple of other kids




And...



Quote
If parents actually gave half a shit about their kids and were not such damn doormats then TBS programs would not be such a booming industry.



I'll say it again? Many of the children within these camps were raised using the parenting methods that you think will keep them out.



Quote
Second you claim that kids who beat the hell out of each other on the playground is exactly like kids who beat the hell out of each other in a program. First of all you are so wrong its not even funny. Another wild claim strung together to prop up your dead ass stupid arguement. Kids in a public school are not subjected to group consquences hence they do not have the same motivations as kids in a program. Kids in a program perform a group beat down not out of respect for their counselors, but more out of self preservation. They feel out of desperation that if they do not resort to physical violence on a peer then they will suffer for his actions via group consquences. Kids at school are motivated by entirely different reasons



Wrong! First of all, I was saying that a public school where kids are permitted to ?take the law into their own hands? in order to silence ?troublemakers? is essentially no different than what occurs in a program. In other words: a school where children are given sovereignty to beat another child en masse as a ?consequence? for breaking the rules or misbehaving is in no way dissimilar to the way programs operate. Yet this type of public school is, after all, what you seem to be yearning for?



Quote
?When I was coming up as a young sprout I remember a friend of mind mouthing off to a teacher. He caught a beating during recess from a couple of other kids.



??OH no.. poor jonny got beat up on the play ground at school for mouthing off to his teachers. Gee... no shit Jonny.. stop mouthing off then



If you support this kind of system within public education, I can hardly see why you would be so against the programs. Promoting and advocating that it?s acceptable for children to beat up kids who ?mouth off? and misbehave will only result in program-esque public schools. I was not, as you stupidly assumed, claiming that kids in public schools are not subject to group consequences. However if you want to argue that?



?You are wrong here also. Kids in public schools are subject to group consequences. It?s far more concentrated and severe in programs but it occurs in public schools nonetheless. It happens quite frequently and is usually the product of a penalty known as ?collective punishment?. Teachers use it regularly. When one child misbehaves the whole class is punished as a collective. Sometimes the ?innocent? children will harass, taunt and abuse the troublesome ?guilty? child in a misguided, or perhaps subconscious, attempt to prevent future penalties.



Anyway, this is all besides the point? Let?s get back to the main discussion which you completely avoided. It goes like this: Spanking/slapping/hitting children DOES NOT prevent them from misbehaving. It DOES NOT teach them anything. IT DOES NOTHING! The funny thing of course, is that I have used an individual (you) who claims that physical punishment prevents problems to prove that it doesn't. Ah, the irony... Anyway here is the stuff you completely ignored...



According to you, hitting children is beneficial and can ?teach? them ?lessons?. For example: Hit children if they cuss so that they shall no longer cuss. Here is what you said...

Quote
I sassed my grandma once and got my mouth half slapped off my head by my grandma. I used a foul word in front of my mum and got my ass whipped so hard it still hurts to think about it.



First of all in never slapped a kid in my life. If I ever have children and one cusses me I will take a belt to his or her ass right quick and in a hurry, but never have I slapped or spanked kids in a program. .



?Fuckwad, dipshit, limp dicks, Fuck no!, fuck, fucked up, etc etc?



If parents actually gave half a shit about their kids and were not such damn doormats then TBS programs would not be such a booming industry.

 

Here are the obvious conclusions that most rational, logical, sane people will make using the above comments...



Quote
So, beating children teaches them to behave and become better adults? According to the above quote you yourself were beaten as a child for cussing, were you not? Now, correct me if I?m wrong, but you also condone the use of violence in order to teach children ?lessons?. Now you can re-read your posts and tell me if you really learnt your lesson about cussing? I suggest you go at once to your mother and ask for another beating! Your lesson was clearly, plainly and obviously not learnt.



*Good parenting, according to you, is what?s required to end the programs.

*Good parenting, as far as you?re concerned, involves beating children if they misbehave to teach them a lesson.

*You had, by your definition, ?good parents? since they beat you when you cussed.

*Your parents? beatings taught you nothing as you continue to cuss.

*Therefore you?ve totally contradicted your own rule!!

*...Thus proving that beating children to teach them a 'lesson' doesn't do a damn thing!



There was also this little nugget of wisdom that you neglected to rebut...



Firstly, you said this...

Quote
 My so called "cycle of violence" is more of this Al Gore Douche Bag liberalism in living color.



...and I replied with the blatantly obvious...



Quote
You are wrong. The cycle of violence is evident in your very own words. You were beaten as a child for cussing and you choose to beat your own children should they ever cuss. However, being beaten clearly never taught you that cussing is bad as you continue to cuss. Go ahead, beat your children when they cuss and then take a look at yourself to see where it?ll get them. Nobody learns a single thing! The only thing you?re left with IS a cycle of violence. Nothing more, nothing less.



Also, from what I can gather you seem to have complete disdain for drug dealers, correct?



Quote
If he was murdered I would have stated that. Do I feel bad about what happened to him? Fuck no. He deserved much worse for selling drugs



And yet you completely avoided my thoughts on the inherent contradictions within your stance on drug dealers and the program detainees...



Quote
?So you do know what happened to him? What did he deserve? You must keep in mind that although you profess to dislike the programs for what they do to detainees, many of the kids within them are drug dealers, drug users and drug abusers. These programs exist for kids purportedly involved with drugs. Yet you claim drug dealers deserve worse than ?being disappeared?. Unless ?disappear? does in fact mean that he got a trip to France your statement implies that they should be in the programs being abused and beaten and perhaps - if you?re really lucky ? ?disappeared?. The implication with this is that the programs must be good; as they deal with the supposed drug dealers you hate so much. Again, there is a massive hole in your reasoning

And...

Quote
Or conversely, that the drug dealer you so despised was, like you, ?thrust into a desperate situation at the time? when he felt he ?had no other options?? What separates your mistakes from his? Why should you be so deserving of special treatment? Does your compassion only extend to yourself?



Please respond to everything I say next time. It saves me having to re-post everything and saves everyone else from re-reading it. I have responded to your statements so why do you circumvent mine?

"



You saw thru him very quickly, it usually takes some time for most, very intuitive.  Three springs (TSW) approached fornits management , not too long ago, because of posts, similar to yours, he asked for more control over other posters because he doesn?t take criticism very well, so we felt it may be good to move him off to his own corner of the world where he has absolute control.  This may keep him busy while the rest of us converse openly and uncensored here in America.  If you are interested in his forum  it is called ?North Korea? , Oh I?m sorry, they don?t allow freedom of speech there, anyway the culture must wear off on you after awhile.  He has a thread of his own here somewhere where he can edit your responses so they conform.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2006, 10:56:00 PM »
Who, I must say "one for you."
But you still don't know shit about the teen help industry, you just have a bit of insight into a someone else who disrespects kids in these programs.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2006, 11:10:00 PM »
Listening to Who and TSW have a debate about ethics is like watching a Down's Syndrome victim and a severe Fetal Alcohol Syndrome victim have a fight.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2006, 11:12:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-06-25 20:10:00, Milk Gargling Death Penalty wrote:

"Listening to Who and TSW have a debate about ethics is like watching a Down's Syndrome victim and a severe Fetal Alcohol Syndrome victim have a fight."


 :wstupid:


Love the name too! :grin:
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2006, 07:31:00 AM »
Quote
As for the who:

Poor fellow still smarting because I pretty much have booted his no account lame ass ways off the Facility forum. Sorry chuckles but I am attempting to build a forum that is a repository of useful facility facts, and admittedly my own vacation plans. Your type of pseudo-intellectual crap belongs in a toilet not on a web forum. You have yet to make a legit valid point without tossing in at least a few of your own anon posts to support your weak arguements via proxy.

Nice try chimp boy but you can try to paint me out to be a nazi, but frankly I just don't give a fuck what you think. Call me a nazi, call me all the names you want.

In the end you will still be the same no account asshole who threw his kid in a treatment program just because he was to big of a pussy to be a real parent and handle his business. To busy at the call center to spend time with your kids? You can paint me anyway you want, but remember something else. I at least had the balls to admit I fucked up. You are still in total denial and probably never will understand the damage you have done to your daughter. Poor girl I hope she has the resources avaliable to seek adequete counseling.


Ouch, Check this out, TSW must have gotten dressed down pretty good.  Must have hit close to the mark.  Tell us how you really feel!!
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Offline TheWho

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« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2006, 10:43:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-06-25 20:10:00, Milk Gargling Death Penalty wrote:

"Listening to Who and TSW have a debate about ethics is like watching a Down's Syndrome victim and a severe Fetal Alcohol Syndrome victim have a fight."


Real nice analogy and nice intro.  We will sure call on you if we are looking for someone who is compassionate about kids with disabilities, Jeeze, where do these people come from?  What an awlful thing to say, talk about being cold towards kids!!
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2006, 11:06:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-06-26 07:43:00, TheWho wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-06-25 20:10:00, Milk Gargling Death Penalty wrote:


"Listening to Who and TSW have a debate about ethics is like watching a Down's Syndrome victim and a severe Fetal Alcohol Syndrome victim have a fight."




Real nice analogy and nice intro.  We will sure call on you if we are looking for someone who is compassionate about kids with disabilities, Jeeze, where do these people come from?  What an awlful thing to say, talk about being cold towards kids!!"


Who, until you quit lying about everything you say, you are the biggest disservice to kids on this site.  Your lies and minpulations are the biggest disservice you can offer to kids and their parents.

Quit lying and maybe some people can take you seriously.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2006, 11:53:00 PM »
ST has sent a light-weight to join the mission too, CURIOUS AND WILLING TO LISTEN, Leslie. Not, too bright, but she's trying every angle.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2006, 02:50:00 PM »
TSW, again you are conflating me with the other poster. Incidentally, I directed him to your posts because of the level of absurdity your contradictory beliefs reach. It is a modern miracle that your head has not exploded. I suspect it is because you have not really examined your beliefs. This is evident in the fact that you rarely defend them but only scream manically about how dumb I am. You should really just stick out your tongue and stick you fingers in your ears while you?re at it. Your inability to defend your ideas in a competent fashion explains why you feel hassles with children should be handled the same way as between drunks in bars.
Their cunning minds would overwhelm you!

Quote
(me)You say it is good for guardians of little children to beat them but as the guardian of children you did not beat them. If beating helps why don?t you beat? So you say one thing and do another. Either that or you are lying and did beat kids. Tell me, are you a liar or a hypocrite?

Quote
(you) I am saying that how parents choose to raise their children is completely up to them. No I have never beaten or whipped a kid in a program. Have you ever tortured your children? Just looking at your postings leads me to wonder if this is more out of guilt or something due to your level of absurd over compensation. (totally rash bullshit claim, but I figured why not respond in kind to yours)

Your first sentence is wrong. During this entire thread you have been extolling the merits of beating as a way to stop a child?s? nay, all of society?s problems. You must see the inconsistancy of extolling the virtues of child beating by guardians and not doing it yourself when you were a guardian?

Quote
(me)You say beatings stop the problems of children which make them need terror camp? Since program gives them what they need ? beatings - it is a contradiction that you are against them. Someone needs to beat those problems away when the parents aren?t doing it. Ask the survivors of these hellholes if the terror and beatings they endured helped make their problems stop

Quote
(you)Parents who beat their children are child abusers. Parents who spank their kids are not. A huge difference between the two that most rational intelligent human beings can figure out without attempting to twist and confuse the words of another to suit their own ends.

TSW, in your post you argue that beating kids stops kids problems so you want them beaten by their families. These are the beatings you?d presumably want inflicted upon other children so their problems would disappear...
??Having my old man lay into my ass with a belt??
?I sassed my grandma once and got my mouth half slapped off my head by my grandma. I used a foul word in front of my mum (7yrsold) and got my ass whipped so hard it still hurts to think about it.?
?My parents were democrats who whaled my ass with a belt on a regular basis.?

Websters dictionary definition for beating:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:LO ... =clnk&cd=2

1. To strike repeatedly; to lay repeated blows upon2. To punish by blows; to thrash. The act of striking or giving blows; punishment or chastisement by blows.

I think the word ?beating? applies. But this is a semantics issue. The point is all, or almost all, program kids have been beaten likewise at home. Therefore, you are wrong. It is not lack of beatings that caused their problems.

You go on to say that they are there because parents are ?damn doormats?, ?don?t have balls?, are so ?friggin neutered holding (their) children to task has become the anti-christ?, don?t have a ?firm hand? and are filled with ?Al Gore Douche Bag Liberalism mumbo jumbo? Read the survivor testimony. Ask the kids if they felt their sorrows were brought about by parents who were overly compassionate towards their feelings. They were not over-loved nor did they have parents who lacked a ?firm hand?. Therefore, you are wrong. It is not over-compassion or Al gore that is responsible for program kids? sorrows or for their being in programs.

And the paradox remains, if their problems exist because they had too much compassion and not enough beating why end program? There?s tons of beatings and ain?t no compassion. They did not help. Therefore, you are wrong, the beatings and lack of compassion you advocate as panacea for problems do not make the kids better

Quote
(me)You say beatings stop the problems of children which make them need terror camp.
   
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(you) This statement alone makes me think that perhaps you are a very troubled individual who ought to seek the help of a good bartender somewhere and drink yourself into total oblivion. Someone making this farcial statement seriously needs to get their brain checked in at the door

Couldn?t agree more, it?s an absolutely indefensible statement - so why did you make it? You say because children are not beaten enough they develop the ?problems? that make it so **we need to send them to terror camp**. You say if we want to stop these problems we need to beat children more.

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Didn't say break him in two, but damn society has gotten so consequence (beating) free from all the absurd p.c. stupidity no wonder so many kids go wrong
(long list of helpful beatings that you think ought to administered)
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For all this so called progress(no longer enough beating) we still have to send children to terror camps.

Stop the problems of miserable children by beating them! Yep.. People who normally support you are flabbergasted. Totally surreal, I know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2006, 03:08:00 PM »
TSW needs to simply say he was wrong to advocate physically hitting children in any manner, and let this one rest. Hitting children is just wrong, don't care if his parents, grandparents choose to hit him or not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2006, 04:03:00 PM »
Its not even that hes just pro beating children. He says its lack is why they NEED to be in program, have problems, why problems wont stop, grow up to make modern art....the list is never ending oh yeah and some surrealy mutally exclusive thoughts about drug policy

here are my personal favorite surreal moments
1)***my ass whipped so hard it still hurts to think about it***.
**** I love this person running on saying that because I think a belt to the butt or a slap to the mouth is ok then I must have done similiar in programs****


You say it is good for guardians of little children to beat them but as the guardian of children you did not beat them.If beating helps why dont you beat? So you say one thing and do another. Either that or you are lying and did beat kids. Tell me, are you a liar or a hypocrite?

2)***For all this so called progress we still have to send children to terror camps. ***

You say beatings stop the problems of children which make them need terror camp. Since program gives them what they need-beatings- it is a contradiction that you are against them. Someone needs to beat those problems away when the parents aren?t doing it. Ask the survivors of these hellholes if the terror and beatings they endured helped make their problems stop or was what they needed

You say that kids are in program because they were not beaten enough. Do a search and find out about the home life of these children. All if not close to all were beaten if not abused. So why do you insist that beating kids keeps them well and out of program? Where is your evidence?
Ask the survivors if what their life at home sadly lacked was beating.And this lack is what casued their sorrows


3)**For all this so called progress we still have to send children to terror camps. ***

Children need to be in terror camp?. If they need to be there why are you trying to end them? Do you see the contradiction? All if not almost all of the kids never needed to be institutionalized. Ask the lady who runs this forum if she needed to be there?

4)***This new culture has brought us absolutely jack shit in the way of progress unless you call taking pictures of the crucifix in a jar of urine as progress. For all this so called progress we still have to send children to terror camps. ***

You really seem to believe all the worlds ?problems? -for example bad modern art, come from children and immigrants not being beaten enough. Program beats children into submission. Yet you are against program. See the condriction? Why end program when this very day I saw someone make a collage?

5)***. If he(immigrant he made "dissapear) was murdered I would have stated that. Do I feel bad about what happened to him? Fuck no. He deserved much worse for selling drugs***

What? Worse then being ?disappeared??(term generally reffering to murder but can also refer to invisibility sheilds)? You do know that almost all these programs exist for kids supposedly involved with drugs?

Because you say that ?getting disappeared? is good, and program is much worse, than by your own definition program is good for kids..Yet you are against program?You see the contradiction here right?

Certainly if a kid deserves much ,much worse then never being seen again for involvement with drugs he deserves program. So all the kids in program deserved it right? The kids in tranquility bay? The Strsights? Kids? The AARC? The lady who runs this forum? Almost every single program is intended to deal with kids who are supposedly on drugs.

i dont know...thats why i thought he was a troll
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2006, 04:26:00 PM »
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(you) Second you claim that kids who beat the hell out of each other on the playground is exactly like kids who beat the hell out of each other in a program. First of all you are so wrong its not even funny. Another wild claim strung together to prop up your dead ass stupid arguement.

No one claims that. What we claim is the Dream School you imagine is program. TSW, in your post you posit that society and children have gone wrong because children are no longer given *consequences* (beatings) for their actions. Once you claimed, when a kid ?mouthed off? a group of kids beat him. You want society to change into a society where once again children are given *consequences* (beating by their peers) when they mouth off. That?s what you imply when bemoaning societies flaws and listing its better counterpart. That?s a program.

In reality this society never existed (outside of program). My mother does not recall a world where if she spoke without raising her hand she needed to handle an angry mob of violent teenagers. School authorities were responsible for disciplining rule breakers not other kids. For your Dream School to exist - a school where children are expected and allowed to beat rule breakers - you?d need to remove basic laws governing civil society, like laws prohibiting assault and battery & governing basic notions of individual rights for example. Are you sure you want this world? It?s program. If this is not what you are suggesting you want for kids - getting beaten by their peer group whenever they break rules - please clarify.

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(you) Kids in a public school are not subjected to group consequences hence they do not have the same motivations as kids in a program. Kids in a program perform a group beat down not out of respect for their counselors, but more out of self preservation. They feel out of desperation that if they do not resort to physical violence on a peer then they will suffer for his actions via group consequences. Kids at school are motivated by entirely different reasons.


The motivation of someone acting out their right to dominate my body is irrelevant - the damage done to me is based on the domination and them having that right, period.

If a girl gets raped the damage done to her is not based on the rapists motivations. If you live in a society where it is OK for her to be raped as consequence for  *rule breaking* it will cause her no less pain if the rapist thinks it?s his moral duty than if he feels if he doesn?t do it he?ll get battered by his peer group.
Likewise, if a girl is battered by her peer group for ?rule breaking? perhaps the batterers ?guilt? is mitigated by his motivations, but not her pain.
The pain is there because it?s her body and a bunch of 5-17yr olds batter it. In particular, it?s the fact that (in your insane social vision) she has no claim upon her own body and they have the right to batter it. That?s program

What is damaging about programs is the complete domination other people - kids- have over you. It is a master/slave relationship. It is being at the mercy of your keepers. Its effects are something one spends a lifetime getting over, if ever. Kids post about it all the time - how scared they are now of people, how they expect abuse. It is not a society that should be wished upon anyone, yet you wish it upon children while supposedly being against programs.
 
Further, A) Kids in public school DO have group consequences. Everyone having to sit in silence for the remainder of period for one kid talking; everyone having to submit urine samples and lose privileges because one kid got caught with drugs; everyone getting detention because of one kids behavior; everyone having to take a test because someone else doesn?t know what he?s talking about are a couple I can recall (This is irrelevant)

B) Kids enforce rules in program for all sorts of reasons (motivations are mostly subconscious and therefore never completely knowable). But I can tell you MY motivations for enforcing rules and they were from fear of INDIVIDUAL consequences - - wanted to ?get back? at a mean girl, wanted to be liked, wanted to bond, wanted to be good, wanted to conform, too tired to fight, confused as to what was real, having no way to escape, wanted to move up in society. The only time I saw others enforce rules were for weirder reasons - like they believed what they were doing was right, or they wanted to dominate someone else. Group consequences were never an issue - the kid wasn?t really doing anything ?wrong?. You don?t really understand what motivates people to do evil acts. http://www.prisonexp.org/pdf/powerevil.pdf
You yourself are an example. You did not enforce rules under threat of group consequences. You were always free to leave at any time. These dynamics are constant within any human society and will be acted out to the extant they are allowed and expected to be acted out. (this is irrelevant )

C) A helpful action does not become unhelpful if the people providing it do it under duress. If I get a needed kidney transplant because the Dr. will be subject to a fine if he does not operate I will be no less benefited. Therefore, by your logic group beatdowns in program are good.

These points are irrelevant. This is because contrasting and comparing motivations of kids in regular school vs. program school is moot. For once you set up a regular school where a child will be consistently beaten whenever she breaks a rule there will be no regular school - it will be program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »