someone should start a new moderated forum

[Anonymous]

elan survivors? what exactly did they survive? tsunami? poverty? volcano? oh no, i forgot. nothing.

[Anonymous]

there are people in parts of the world that would give anything to live in elan - three hots & a cot. and we bitch.

[Anonymous]

A good friend of mine had been struggling in her life for years.  Trouble with drugs, couldn't keep a job etc.  She stepped off the street corner one day and was hit by a car.  She was seriously injured and nearly lost her life.  
She spent about a year and a half recovering in the hospital and physical therapy.  She's in constant pain, deals with continuing surgical procedures and has nightmares.

She says it was a life changing experience for her though.  She grew up, went back to school and became a dental hygenist.  She says the accident put things into perspective for her.  Would you recommend this kind of therapy for someone?  I mean it worked!!!!!  What's a little pain and suffering right? :roll:

[Anonymous]

right! by jove i think he's got it! theres always somebody worse off, put that in your perspective and smoke it. As for the average american teenager? fuck them. If you too weak to handle elan, kill yourself already. we have no use for these spineless nickel-whores.

[Anonymous]

cool, now i can just run over  the  punks and slackers  and other no-good niks that i see walking home from school.im sure theyll thank me later :wstupid:

[Mister Pink]

Look at some of the people on this board and ask yourself long and hard if you support "step-off-the-street-corner-and-get-hit-by-a-car" therapy. I think we got a new therapeutic idea here! somebody call Joe Ricci, we'll make a fortune!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-19 22:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"there are people in parts of the world that would give anything to live in elan - three hots & a cot. and we bitch."

You're right about one thing: The "American way of life" doesn't apply in semi-colonial countries. Life conditions are rather inferior, people lack the most basic sources of survival. Even then, most people aren't willing to sacrifice their own freedom. Not really. And I've been around. Try going to a slum quarter in South America and ask people where they'd rather be... Trust me, this has been done.

This issue is rather socio-economic and it's in the order of the day within the agenda of debates of semi-colonial countries (or as most midiatic sources like to call it, "countries in development"). I'll give you two reasons to illustrate your confusion:

1. Elan isn't phylantropic. Some residents are funded by the State, but the capital doesn't come from the institution itself.

2. Assistencialism doesn't respond to social problems of this magnitude, meaning, the socio-economic issues worldwide. So even if Elan's purpouse was assistencialist (which as a matter of fact, is NOT), they wouldn't interfere on the solution of these problems, since they can only be resolved with a deep ceasure of the social cleavages.

What's my conclusion: If the purpouse of this web-site is to share and debate about our experiences in Elan, people are free to criticize it.

[Anonymous]

Elan is an ultimate expression of how sick and degrating our society can get. Even thou there's food and shelter, it lacks some of the basic human rights, such as freedom of speech and freedom of coming and going. Plus, it doesn't serve its purpouse, it doesn't rehabilitate.
The staff isn't qualified for dealing with the complexity of most pshychological issues. The shock treatment (such as a car accident, as mentioned) might work as a wake up call. Elan does that in a rather different manner, by humilliating and forcing change out of fear.

Is this change deep and concrete or rather superficial?
Could that methodology invert its results, by creating new issues instead of resolving the previous ones?

You guys know the answer.

[Mister Pink]

Listen, I'm seeing you guys point, however, let me say this;

these rights of freedom of speech and freedom of travel were not completely cut off. yes, granted they were restricted, but at any time in elan, I could say anything I wanted, and I did. I could have split if I had the sheer will to do so. Therefore, while infringed upon, these rights were not absent, simply - fear was used as a tool to limit them. I shut up sometimes because i didnt want the consequences, never ran because i never wanted it bad enough. You cannot suppress someone with a strong enough will.

I sort of gained hope and guidance, perspective or whatever because of knowing an old vet who was captured and spent years in Hanoi being tortured. I realized what was happening to me was chicken shit and peas compared to real brainwashing, real torture, and real survival. we need to move on, it wasnt that bad.

obviously, i would agree with you that the 'therapeutic' value of elan is practically non-existant, and raw coercion is rarely an antidote to any problem... change comes from within (ho ho!) - and we woulda have had a better shot of realizing that by never being there and living that chunk of our lives... but we cant change any of that now. hey, some people on this board might be angry or a little messed up, but in general, considering what ALL of us went through, we turned out alright

[Anonymous]

Elan is an ultimate expression of how sick and degrating our society can get. Even thou there's food and shelter, it lacks some of the basic human rights, such as freedom of speech and freedom of coming and going. Plus, it doesn't serve its purpouse, it doesn't rehabilitate.
The staff isn't qualified for dealing with the complexity of most pshychological issues.
 :tup:

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-21 02:32:00, Mister Pink wrote:

"I sort of gained hope and guidance, perspective or whatever because of knowing an old vet who was captured and spent years in Hanoi being tortured. I realized what was happening to me was chicken shit and peas compared to real brainwashing, real torture, and real survival. we need to move on, it wasnt that bad.
"

You see, there are different manners and levels of torture under specific circunstances. I wouldn't dare compare Elan's techniques of torture, brainwashing, etc. with the ones used under extreme circunstances such as war ou militar autocratic dictatorships. You cannot isolate the methods from their context. But then again, what do you mean by "real torture", or "real brainwashing"? It seems as If you're denying each and every element of torture and brainwashing that was used as a path of "rehabilitation". I see your point, and I agree that it happens in different levels, but be careful not to disconsider it completelly as if it never happened.

  If you wanted it that bad, you could have BREAKEN the rules, but there were means of intimidation that prevented people from walking out that door and running away or just speaking freely whatever was on our minds. Sometimes I did that, but keeping in perspective what would come next (general meetings, corner, etc). Therefor essencially, we were deprived of our basic freedoms.

  Most people hold on to some sort of anger toward that place, which is only natural. Of course it doesn't mean people haven't moved on. Some of us turned out allright, some didn't and we cannot be simplistic by blaming Elan for each and every problem, but understand which role it's played in our lives.

[Mister Pink]

I'm inclined to agree with everything you say, just noting it doesn't apply to me personally. THE most un-therapeutic, most completely fucked thing I noticed about the program was watching an abused 12-year old girl get yelled at by a 22-year old heroin addict (why? take your petty pick). These kinds of things are the meat and potatoes of elan, and are most defitnitly deserving of our (and everyones) disgust and anger

I'm going to sound like an elan-sympathizer to say this, but in most cases, we did something to wind up there, e.g. we weren't making the best or appreciating of our basic freedoms to begin with.

In my case, somebody was going to do it - whether it was the state of New Jersey, a mental ward/rehab, or that shitty little boarding camp in the woods... Now I appreciate every single day I'm alive, and if things really get bad, remind myself that things could always be much, much more bizairre and tortuous.

This is the role elan plays in my life, more of a postitive force (not because of what it was, but because of how I lived it and interpreted it) rather than a concious fact. except sometimes in the mornings when I'm shaving  :wink:

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-20 12:27:00, Eliscu2 wrote:

"

On 2006-06-19 22:43:00, Anonymous wrote:


"there are people in parts of the world that would give anything to live in elan - three hots & a cot. and we bitch."

Perhaps you forgot to put things in thier proper perspective! We survived somethings that no teenagers should have to survie in America under normal circumstances.Atleast the Elan I went to in 81-82."

trust me.


after '91 it was NOTHING like it was in the 80's.
it was a glorified summer camp

[Anonymous]

Your idea of "summer camp" is bizzare.
Completelly out of context.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-06-06 12:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Marty Kruglik has shown some real bizar behavior while working at Elan. One time during morning meeting, Kruglik attended the meeting and brought with him a basket filled with fecal matter and a flute.

He placed the basket on the floor of the dining room and sat down in front of it Indian style. He took out his flute and began playing a tune in front of the basket. Though nothing happened after 12 minutes, Kruglik claims that he has in the past been able to make the fecal matter arise from the basket and dance around.

Perhaps that specific time was unsucessful because Marty did not chant enough "hi yuh yuh yuh yuh's" before playing the flute?

Cool..........., Mabe he was the creator of "MR. Hankey" the dancing turd!

You ARE such an asshole! You are obsessed with SHIT.
MAJOR issues you have, you low lying, shit smelling pig.
Worms have to climb up to get away from you.
You act like a toddler who talks about Do-Do and Poopie!
GET A LIFE YOU WASTE OF SPACE! ...         :skull: