aka sue scheff jr.

[TheWho]

Kathy, I think you have a site that may work.  An alternative to the Ed Cons is sorely needed.  You would need to be careful that you provide an honest service and your research is fair and balanced (this applies to any service) or you will lose you customer base overnight and word will get out very quickly.  Fornits would be a good source for some of your research but you would also have to balance it out with other sources.  

I don?t think you will get many people here to back you unless you agree that the parents get the message that all programs are abusive and your child will not benefit from any of them. It?s very difficult to get a balanced view here.

Niles, for example, made a few good points that would be helpful to you and your cause and showed signs of thinking independently, but the group was quick to point this out to him and he backed off and joined the popular position here.

My point is be careful who you accept money from.  If they are individuals that is fine, but if you accept money from a group, you take on their position also, it goes with the funding.

Good luck, sounds like a good venture, we may talk further.

[Anonymous]

Here we go again.  
Kathy what programs, as of today, are on your GOOD LIST?  The ones you could honestly tell a parent would be a safe program in which to enroll their child?
Better still, which program would you, yourself feel comfortable enrolling your own child in?
Name them.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Here we go again.  

Kathy what programs, as of today, are on your GOOD LIST?  The ones you could honestly tell a parent would be a safe program in which to enroll their child?

Better still, which program would you, yourself feel comfortable enrolling your own child in?

Name them."

Excellent question!

 :nworthy:

[Kathy]

Thanks Niles, I'm sorry too for calling you annoying, I just got on the defensive side when I found out I was being ripped apart without any warning. (And in my opinion without good reason.  I never have and never will promote programs, regardless of what accusations might be thrown around.)

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 12:56:00, TheWho wrote:

"Kathy, I think you have a site that may work.  An alternative to the Ed Cons is sorely needed.  You would need to be careful that you provide an honest service and your research is fair and balanced (this applies to any service) or you will lose you customer base overnight and word will get out very quickly.  Fornits would be a good source for some of your research but you would also have to balance it out with other sources.  



I don?t think you will get many people here to back you unless you agree that the parents get the message that all programs are abusive and your child will not benefit from any of them. It?s very difficult to get a balanced view here.



Niles, for example, made a few good points that would be helpful to you and your cause and showed signs of thinking independently, but the group was quick to point this out to him and he backed off and joined the popular position here.



My point is be careful who you accept money from.  If they are individuals that is fine, but if you accept money from a group, you take on their position also, it goes with the funding.



Good luck, sounds like a good venture, we may talk further.

"

LOL - an endorsement from a quasi-program-apologist.  That's really rich.

:rofl:

[Kathy]

On 2006-05-04 11:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-05-04 11:14:00, Nihilanthic wrote:


"I think we're all just too damn cynical and hairtriggered here after the troll invasion and just the PURE/Whitmore shitstorm.





Since my post was anon Ill boil it down:


I'm perosnally sorry I didnt read it all the way through before making up my mind about what you're doing, Kathy. Im just too damn pessimistic for my own good.





Im also sorry I annoy you so much :grin:







"

And where is it that you are getting that I am in any way, shape or form steering anyone towards any programs?  Or are you just to lazy to read before you make these accusations. Or Once again, is it just the sheer drama that you thrive on?

[Kathy]

[/quote]



I get what you are saying, but respecfully disagree.  I'd much rather see children have the right to due process before being "referred" into ANY FUCKING PROGRAM.  It's time for people to stop preying upon kids as a cash crop.



 :idea: "
[/quote]

Uhh, yaaaaaaah,

[Troll Control]

Disclaimer? You have GOT to be kidding? Disclaimers are designed to protect the seller, not the buyer (the parent and child).

Christ, you really are losing it Niles. Oh well, I guess it was bound to happen. Soon there will be no true advocates left.
[/quotes]

shut up o5.

[Kathy]

Um Helloo??? What he is saying is absolutely correct.  If something on the web site leads you to believe something differently, then please tell me exactly what that is, and what changes should take place in order to make that clear to readers.  

And who is this anon anyway, who started up this trouble, and what's this anon's motives?  If the motives are p.u.r.e (pun intended) then why remain anonymous?  What is it you were trying to do in the first place? Or were you just bored? ::boycott::

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 13:30:00, Kathy wrote:

"

On 2006-05-04 11:28:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2006-05-04 11:14:00, Nihilanthic wrote:



"I think we're all just too damn cynical and hairtriggered here after the troll invasion and just the PURE/Whitmore shitstorm.







Since my post was anon Ill boil it down:



I'm perosnally sorry I didnt read it all the way through before making up my mind about what you're doing, Kathy. Im just too damn pessimistic for my own good.







Im also sorry I annoy you so much :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[Kathy]

On 2006-05-04 11:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-05-04 11:37:00, Nihilanthic wrote:


"

I get what you are saying, but respecfully disagree. I'd much rather see children have the right to due process before being "referred" into ANY FUCKING PROGRAM. It's time for people to stop preying upon kids as a cash crop.

Shes not referring!! Shes just digging up the facts she can find an sharing them with the parents, not saying its good or bad.





Now, yes, youre right - telling them that the kid actually has to have something wrong, and has to find a place to actually provide therapy is part of what needs to be done, and Im pretty sure she is. If not, well, ask her.





I also agree that explaining that programs arent therapy, they never said they were (many say theyre not, actually), and that behavior modification is abusive is probably a good idea, but most people dont get how a program could be bad, even without the raps/seminars and pain-compliance-restraint/beatings. Someone should do that.





Its not a therapetuic thing, and it doesnt fix any  real issues, it just breaks someone down to make them behave, and it fucks them up in the process. Yeah, someone should be saying that, and we all know this by now. But, again, if shes just digging up the dirt on a program that someones asking about, is that so wrong?





Why not just suggest she do what I stated above along with whatever she digs up? Like, basically, have a program disclaimer?"

Disclaimer?  You have GOT to be kidding?  Disclaimers are designed to protect the seller, not the buyer (the parent and child).



Christ, you really are losing it Niles.  Oh well, I guess it was bound to happen.  Soon there will be no true advocates left.



 :eek: "

And mr or ms. anonymous, just what is it that you are doing that makes you so holier than thou'? And an anonymous holier than thou no-less. :lol:

[Kathy]

On 2006-05-04 11:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-05-04 11:33:00, Nihilanthic wrote:


"Dude, I try to NOT rely too much on intution and emotions. We all know how that itself is manipulated to get genuinely concerned, but stoopid (or just way too scared) parents to sign off their offspring.





If shes not referring, but rather just answering questions about one specific place, thats not doing any more harm than if someone asked me about a place and I pulled info from Wes's site, ISAC, her site, here (anon anon) and whatever else I found, now is it?


"

Newsflash:  PURE doesn't refer either.  They just recommend programs based on their "research" and of course, well known bias against a certain organization.



 :roll:



"

News Flash: I don't refer to or recommend programs.  This is obviously becoming a game of semantics.  And now, this argument is getting to the point of ridiculous, so I guess, just believe as you wish.  Enjoy.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 13:40:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-05-04 13:30:00, Kathy wrote:


"

On 2006-05-04 11:28:00, Anonymous wrote:



"

On 2006-05-04 11:14:00, Nihilanthic wrote:




"I think we're all just too damn cynical and hairtriggered here after the troll invasion and just the PURE/Whitmore shitstorm.









Since my post was anon Ill boil it down:




I'm perosnally sorry I didnt read it all the way through before making up my mind about what you're doing, Kathy. Im just too damn pessimistic for my own good.









Im also sorry I annoy you so much :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

"

Yeah, like purchase 6 reports and the 7th is free?

Works for me!

 :wink:

[Anonymous]

On 2006-05-04 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Here we go again.  

Kathy what programs, as of today, are on your GOOD LIST?  The ones you could honestly tell a parent would be a safe program in which to enroll their child?

Better still, which program would you, yourself feel comfortable enrolling your own child in?

Name them."

Kathy - can we get an answer today?  I know you think this is all about "drama" but some people truly are concerned and would appreciate a response to these specific questions.

Thanks!

 :wave:

[Kathy]

On 2006-05-04 12:56:00, TheWho wrote:

"Kathy, I think you have a site that may work.  An alternative to the Ed Cons is sorely needed.  You would need to be careful that you provide an honest service and your research is fair and balanced (this applies to any service) or you will lose you customer base overnight and word will get out very quickly.  Fornits would be a good source for some of your research but you would also have to balance it out with other sources.  



I don?t think you will get many people here to back you unless you agree that the parents get the message that all programs are abusive and your child will not benefit from any of them. It?s very difficult to get a balanced view here.



Niles, for example, made a few good points that would be helpful to you and your cause and showed signs of thinking independently, but the group was quick to point this out to him and he backed off and joined the popular position here.



My point is be careful who you accept money from.  If they are individuals that is fine, but if you accept money from a group, you take on their position also, it goes with the funding.



Good luck, sounds like a good venture, we may talk further.

"

Thank you for a sane post. I must say you understand my position now of being an "alternative" to the "pro-program" edu-con.

My research is honest, I don't no how fair and balanced it is, as I try to provide the worst information I can find in order to combat the "testimonies" (of grateful kids and parents) along with the completely false sales pitches.

Why isn't the information fair and balanced? (First, I tell people up front that I am not fair an balanced but trying to prove that "programs" aren't effective therapy and don't work. In other words, trying to be a voice for the kids who WON'T be believed!) I do this because I have been in a program and I know what goes on in the program and the lies the counslors, clients and administrators tell in order to either to get more clients, or simply because they have been brainwashed to truly believe in their "powers." Fornits is never a source of information for me at all.  I use many other real and primary sources.  

I don't expect to get anyone here to back me, never did expect to or care to.  However, I also never expected to be intentionally attacked by "friendly fire."

I haven't accepted money from anyone so far. (Which is what makes this thread even more laughable) I wish these people would get their facts straight before going witch-hunting.... but then again, they wouldn't be hunting witches if they were so inclined to get the facts first, now would they?