ASR

[RobertBruce]

So what it seems like you want us to believe is a parent can call up the state office and say “My son is Disabled because he is having a tough time in school and is doing drugs so I would like him classified as a “Special needs “student and received services from the state.

No one has said anything to this affect. Pay closer attention.

Do you think the state would just say okay? Or do you think he would need to be evaluated and determined to be special needs by the state he is in?

Of course. Who has said otherwise? Stay focused Cindy, ha, ha, ha.

We can all say our kids are special needs kids, but the state needs to approve every case and the parents need to apply for this status thru the DOE or Early intervention.

How many of those kids are at ASR is unknown. What we do know is that Massachusettes has stated that ASR is set up to be treating such kids.

The point I have been trying to get across is the state that the child lives in determines if the child is a “special needs” student. They need to be classified as such and placed within the system…..some boarding school in another state cant classify kids as special needs for the state only the state can do this. I may have a child that fits the special needs definition but choose not to have him classified, so therefore he fits the definition but is not, by law, a “Special needs” student.

Yet ASR continues to provide services for special needs kids. It doesnt matter if theyve been deemed as such. When EEC goes in theyre going to be able to determine for themselves how many of these kids actually qualify as special needs. If that number is greater than 30% (which it will be) then ASR will be forced to apply for licensure.

ASR’s definition and the states definition can be completely different.

Actually the state's authority supercedes the imaginary autonomy that ASR believes it has. When the state reps come in it's going to break down one of two ways.

1. They're going to come and find all these kids who meet the definition of "special needs" and force ASR to become properly licensed. My money's on this one.

2. They're going to come and find the kids don't meet the definition of special needs and then wonder why the school is providing special needs services to kids who clearly dont need it. At which point they'll force ASR to become properly licensed.


Sorry if this makes you mad Cindy but it's the reality of the situation. Get used to it, ha, ha ,ha.

[Deborah]

So what it seems like you want us to believe is a parent can call up the state office and say “My son is Disabled because he is having a tough time in school and is doing drugs so I would like him classified as a “Special needs “student and received services from the state.

No, idiot. What state office would they call? You're off topic intentionally, as usual. We're discussing the definition of "special needs" in terms of "services provided" and as that relates to licensure.

Do you think the state would just say okay?  Or do you think he would need to be evaluated and determined to be special needs by the state he is in?

Nope, that would be the school district's job. Did you read the case law that was provided? No of course not.

We can all say our kids are special needs kids, but the state needs to approve every case and the parents need to apply for this status thru the DOE or Early intervention.

Nope, and irrelevant to this discussion/issue.

The point I have been trying to get across is the state that the child lives in determines if the child is a “special needs” student.  They need to be classified as such and placed within the system…..some boarding school in another state cant classify kids as special needs for the state only the state can do this.

Oh really. HLA slapped a dx on my son that he didn't have prior to attending that pit. No one in Tx determined him to be "special needs". Again, totally irrelavent to this discussion/issue. The kids do not have to carry a dx or be classified as "special needs" in their home state, in order to be considered "special needs" in the state they are attending "school". Again, as this relates to licensing.  

I may have a child that fits the special needs definition but choose not to have him classified, so therefore he fits the definition but is not, by law, a “Special needs” student.

That's right, so don't go to your school district and ask for special services or considerations unless you are prepared for your kid to be classified as "special needs".

ASR’s definition and the states definition can be completely different. Hope this clears this up.

 ::roflmao:: About as clear as mud.  ::bangin:: ASR can define it how they wish, but in case you're confused, the state will have the ultimate say.

[TheWho]

Sorry to get everyone riled up…Ha,Ha,Ha  everyone gets so serious here... just wanted to clear up that you ,I  or ASR don’t determine if a child is classified as “special needs”.  This is determined by the state and the state alone.  We don’t know what regulations apply because ASR isn’t classified clearly in any one category, i.e Private boarding school, Special ed school, RTC, mental facility etc……..  They are a hybrid presently because there doesn’t exist a category for TBS at this time.

So the state needs to define what regulations apply before determining compliance.

[psy]

Sorry to get everyone riled up…Ha,Ha,Ha  everyone gets so serious here... just wanted to clear up that you ,I  or ASR don’t determine if a child is classified as “special needs”.  This is determined by the state and the state alone.  We don’t know what regulations apply because ASR isn’t classified clearly in any one category, i.e Private boarding school, Special ed school, RTC, mental facility etc……..  They are a hybrid presently because there doesn’t exist a category for TBS at this time.

So the state needs to define what regulations apply before determining compliance.

So what you're saying, essentially, is that they're outside the law?

[RobertBruce]

Sorry to get everyone riled up…Ha,Ha,Ha  everyone gets so serious here... just wanted to clear up that you ,I  or ASR don’t determine if a child is classified as “special needs”.  This is determined by the state and the state alone.  We don’t know what regulations apply because ASR isn’t classified clearly in any one category, i.e Private boarding school, Special ed school, RTC, mental facility etc……..  They are a hybrid presently because there doesn’t exist a category for TBS at this time.

So the state needs to define what regulations apply before determining compliance.

Ha, ha, ha keep telling yourself that Cindy.

As upset as youre getting about it now I can only imagine what it will be like when the state does force licensure onto the school.

"Why can't you see it's a hybrid! Being a hybrid means you dont have to follow any laws. That's why I got my daddy to buy me one. Now whenever I'm driving around in my hybrid and I come across a red light, I just drive right on through. Cause it's a hybrid!"

Nine years ago when the OCCS came into ASR and demanded they become licensed this hybrid argument didnt hold any water then any more then it does now. What got the OCCS to back off was that ASR filed for an exemption as a special needs school under the 30% rule. Now why would they need to file for an exemption for something they arent Cindy.

Answer me that if you can.

If you doubt the story I suggest you call up your bosses at ASR and verify it for yourself.

Their number is (800) 258-1770.

The difference now is that the definition for a "special needs" kid has become much broader. The exemption will no longer apply.

[TheWho]

Sorry to get everyone riled up…Ha,Ha,Ha  everyone gets so serious here... just wanted to clear up that you ,I  or ASR don’t determine if a child is classified as “special needs”.  This is determined by the state and the state alone.  We don’t know what regulations apply because ASR isn’t classified clearly in any one category, i.e Private boarding school, Special ed school, RTC, mental facility etc……..  They are a hybrid presently because there doesn’t exist a category for TBS at this time.

So the state needs to define what regulations apply before determining compliance.

So what you're saying, essentially, is that they're outside the law?

Well sort of...... but thinking out loud here......As a hypothetical situation. Lets say a small place opened in Boston and it served bagels and coffee. You could also read the many books they had around the Shoppe and purchase them or they would lend them to you to take home for a few days. The citys regulations state that a restaurant needs to have a minimum of 5 tables and this place doesn’t. Another person says they need to have a licensed librarian in order to lend books to the public. Another person says they should be a book store who serves food.
Which agency should they report to? Are they an evil place because they are fighting hiring a librarian? They are a great café that contributes to the neighborhood, people benefit from their services…there is no need to push to shut them down, it would be unjust.

So maybe the state decides to put them in the category of “Library” and makes a note that they aren’t approved .  They would have a special status as a Hybrid between a library and a café, but not really adhering to one totally.  So they wouldn’t be required to the regulations of a library and have 3 copies of “Tom Sawyer” etc.
ASR is in a similar situation:
In the state of Massachusetts they don’t have a category for Therapeutic boarding schools. So ASR fits partially under “Private Boarding school” , “Mental health facility”, “Special ed ...

[RobertBruce]

So what you're saying, essentially, is that they're outside the law?


Well sort of...... but thinking out loud here......

Done. Thank you Cindy, youve made your position quite clear. You believe that ASR is outside of the law and free to conduct themselves as best they see fit.

No further comment on the subject is needed from you.

Thank you for your time.

[psy]

Sorry to get everyone riled up…Ha,Ha,Ha  everyone gets so serious here... just wanted to clear up that you ,I  or ASR don’t determine if a child is classified as “special needs”.  This is determined by the state and the state alone.  We don’t know what regulations apply because ASR isn’t classified clearly in any one category, i.e Private boarding school, Special ed school, RTC, mental facility etc……..  They are a hybrid presently because there doesn’t exist a category for TBS at this time.

So the state needs to define what regulations apply before determining compliance.

So what you're saying, essentially, is that they're outside the law?

Well sort of...... but thinking out loud here......As a hypothetical situation. Lets say a small place opened in Boston and it served bagels and coffee. You could also read the many books they had around the Shoppe and purchase them or they would lend them to you to take home for a few days. The citys regulations state that a restaurant needs to have a minimum of 5 tables and this place doesn’t. Another person says they need to have a licensed librarian in order to lend books to the public. Another person says they should be a book store who serves food.
Which agency should they report to? Are they an evil place because they are fighting hiring a librarian? They are a great café that contributes to the neighborhood, people benefit from their services…there is no need to push to shut them down, it would be unjust.

So maybe the state decides to put them in the category of “Library” and makes a note that they aren’t approved .  They would have a special status as a Hybrid between a library and a café, but not really adhering to one totally.  So they wouldn’t be required to the regulations of a library and have 3 copies of “Tom Sawyer” etc.
ASR is in a similar situation:
In the state of Massachusetts they don’t have a category for Therapeutic boarding schools. So ASR fits partially under “Private Boarding school” , “Mental health facility”, “Special ed ...

Trying to figure out what category you are in.. as opposed to  jumping through hoops to avoid being placed in one and/or selectively choosing (depending on who you are talking to) what catgory you are in... Very different things here.  Plus: this is a place you send your kids to be "taken care of".... not a fucking bagel place.  (HEY.. ya want saam lox wit ya brat?!?!)

[RobertBruce]

Psy, please he has made his feelings quite clear. He believes ASR and other programs like it shouldnt have to obey the law. No amount of common sense or facts is going to change his mind.

Let's not waste any more time trying.

[TheWho]

psy wrote:

Trying to figure out what category you are in.. as opposed to jumping through hoops to avoid being placed in one and/or selectively choosing (depending on who you are talking to) what catgory you are in... Very different things here. Plus: this is a place you send your kids to be "taken care of".... not a fucking bagel place. (HEY.. ya want saam lox wit ya brat?!?!)

What you are talking about is perspective… there is bound to be a fringe group outside the café protesting that they are skirting the law and should have a certified librarian and institute the dewy decimal system and calling it an evil place.  From their point of view they are jumping thru hoops to avoid regulation…to most others it is a situation where the laws don’t apply neatly.

I am sure as more of these cafes opened around the state there would be better clarification with the law and maybe a separate category would emerge.  “fast food “ Restaurants had the same problem adhering to all the regulations that mainstream restaurants had to adhere to and were permitted special waivers until finally a Fast food category was developed.
If more TBS were opened, eventually they would clarify regulations that applied specifically to them.

There is no attempt to minimize this because kids are involved.  It’s a problem just the same and needs to be addressed.

[RobertBruce]

If more TBS were opened, eventually they would clarify regulations that applied specifically to them.

See DeSisto School.

[Troll Control]

Right now, these are the facts available:

1. ASR is classified by the state. They are classified as a "Special Education School".

2. ASR does not employ any licensed teachers nor any special educators, so they remain "unapproved" by the state.

3. ASR does not appear in the Mohawk Trails Regional School District's comprehensive review for 2007 which indicates their "partnership" with the district has ended in 2007.

4. ASR remains unaccredited and is legally barred by the state from issuing state sanctioned diplomas.


The other licensing issues will be hammered out through a state investigation.  For now, all we can really be sure of is that ASR is already classified by the state as "Special Education" and that ASR fails to meet the minimum standards prescribed under law.

The other assertions will have to be examined by the state, although, historically speaking, these investigations result in so-called "TBS's" being forced to license as RTC's or RCF's, so the odds-on favorite is exactly that - that, at the end of the day, ASR will be forced to license or close like many others that followed the same path.

We'll have to see how it plays out...

[TheWho]

Well, why don’t we accept them for what they are "Half Truths"...Ha,Ha,Ha,...  Let’s sharpen our pencils a little and add some more facts:

1. ASR has been operating this way for a decade with full sanction from the State of Massachusetts and are sanctioned to hand out high school diplomas.  100% of the kids move on to college if they choose to.

2. No investigations are being done on ASR and there are no complaints filed against them.

3.  The state has no classification for TBS so they were classified as a "Special ed school",  with note that they are not held to this classes regulations.  

4. ASR has not sought approval as a Special ed school because they are a hybrid (Part Private boarding school, part therapy school).  The state needs to reclassify or special regulations need to be defined for TBS's.

Until such time as the state defines a class for TBS's, schools like ASR will have to remain in limbo and work the best they can with the laws that apply to other categories.

Lets not beat the school up because the state cant find the time to develop a category for them

..

[RobertBruce]

Until such time as the state defines a class for TBS's, schools like ASR will have to remain in limbo and work the best they can with the laws that apply to other categories.

We'll see. Until that time why don't you think about what argument you plan on making to the state agencies about why some compaines should be allowed to operate outside of the law.


As to your other garbage, the facts have been made quite clear. No one needs to hear any more of your propoganda or misinformation. Please keep it to yourself as you arent convincing anyone and we've already proven you wrong dozens of times over.

[Troll Control]

...and are sanctioned to hand out high school diplomas.

Half truths?  This is a no truth!  Ha, ha, ha.  Gotta love that kind of desperation.

Reminder:  ASR is not an accredited school.  Unaccredited schools are not allowed to hand out state sanctioned diplomas.  

Calm down, stop being so rash.  People understand you're not telling the truth, so stamping your feet and throwing a baby tantrum aren't going to change anything.  Ha, ha, ha.  Aren't you an adult?  You act just like a child, ha, ha, ha...

Does anybody else see the rich irony that by compulsively responding with blatant lies TheWho is bringing all kinds of attention and negative publicity to his precious ASR?  That he's destroying any shred of benefit of the doubt people have given ASR because he's so desperate to respond, even with lies?

Ha, ha, ha...