ASR

[Deborah]

Interesting... have you posted your good experience anywhere else on the web except the premier survivors site?

[Anonymous]

DON'T ENCOURAGE HIM!

[Anne Bonney]

I guess, Deborah, what I am trying to say is :  Lets say this was a Parents survival forum and some child came on here and gave their experience and her story was met with skepticism and sarcastic remarks,  like ?those responses sound like they were cut and pasted?,  ?Oh, she only gave her 3 year old sister heroin once, wa,wa,wa, that?s not a big deal!?,  ?go ahead,punk, run away don?t answer any of our questions?.all these program kids are the same, thin skinned, you place them on one reflection and they yell abuse!!...?you give them work to do, like us parents have to do, and have them clean their dorm and they yell child labor laws, they have no idea what us parents had to go thru, all I hear is me,me,me!!??. I wish they would go away I am sick of hearing about it?.

That's how ST behaves.  Sort of.  As soon as they get any hint that someone doesn't agree with ALL of their statements, they ban them.  You guys (pro programs nuts) are welcome here any time.  It ain't always pretty, but nobody gets rid of you just because we don't like what you say.


 

If I was on that forum I would intervene apologize to the child for the rude behavior and try to get the child to stay and ask the other parents to cut the crap??  they may, they may not, but I would at least try to keep that child around to allow her to speak.

You're here.  Charly's here.  If a parent cares enough[/b] about this issue they'll stick around.  They'll ignore the slams and dig for information.  If they don't, they won't.

[TheWho]

Anne wrote:

That's how ST behaves. Sort of. As soon as they get any hint that someone doesn't agree with ALL of their statements, they ban them. You guys (pro programs nuts) are welcome here any time. It ain't always pretty, but nobody gets rid of you just because we don't like what you say.

I have read the posts about people here getting kicked off ST over the past years like Niles and just recently Psy?  I think? I haven?t seen what they have posted (whether they intentionally disrupted conversations? or blocked people from talking etc?)  but I don?t believe anyone should be banned for expressing their opinions? and before getting kicked off I think there should be some private conversations and /or warnings about the rules, at least before the block their IP.

I know that it one of the strong points of fornits is they accept everyone for who they are and if the gloves come off so be it  (that?s what I like about fornits and in my opinion makes fornits stronger and more credible than ST)?.. I just have a soft spot in my heart for struggling parents trying to help their kids attain a good life?? others have a soft spot for kids who suffered because of them, that cool, just different points of virew.

[Anonymous]

The Who, tell us about "the good life" your daughter attained from being locked up at ASR, again.  "The good life" that included her running away, not speaking to you for 2 years, and being unable to communicate with her own peers after her little stay at ASR.  And none of that "she just matured so much at ASR, she had nothing in common with her friends any longer."  Some people retain friendships over a life-time---DID YOU KNOW THAT?  And only very very dysfunctional families have a daughter who does not speak to a parent for YEARS.  DID YOU KNOW THAT?

[TheWho]

The Who, tell us about "the good life" your daughter attained from being locked up at ASR, again.  "The good life" that included her running away, not speaking to you for 2 years, and being unable to communicate with her own peers after her little stay at ASR.  And none of that "she just matured so much at ASR, she had nothing in common with her friends any longer."  Some people retain friendships over a life-time---DID YOU KNOW THAT?  And only very very dysfunctional families have a daughter who does not speak to a parent for YEARS.  DID YOU KNOW THAT?

When she first got home she had a difficult time adjusting.  She went back to her old friends for a few weeks and found that she had outgrown them (matured) and eventually found a more mature and healthier group to hang out with.  She didn?t move away and our relationship has been great.
Some of my feed back to ASR was the transition back home and I heard from other parents that ASR has addressed the issue and transitions are much smoother now.

I think one thing you are missing here is many of the kids which enter ASR are very immature for their age and the maturation process can be accelerated if the child is placed in a mature and safe environment where they can thrive and grow.

Take any of the kids that join, say a group sport at school.  Within no time they mature very quickly in ways like having respect for others, themselves, organizing and being responsible for their own equipment, getting to practice on time, healthier friendships etc.

Many of you focus too much on the bumps in the road and not the destination.  Is it a tough road, yes, no question about it!!  But many of the kids thrive and do so well when they get home.

[Programmie-Trans 9000]

When she first got home she had a difficult time adjusting.  She went back to her old friends for a few weeks and found that they had outgrown her (she had regressed) and she eventually found a less mature and more diseased group to hang out with. She ran like hell and our relationship was even worse than it started.
Some of my feed back to ASR was the transition back home and I heard from other parents that ASR has addressed the issue and transitions are much more humiliating now.

I think one thing you are missing here is many of the kids which enter ASR are too mature for their parents to handle and the maturation process can be reversed if the child is placed in a capricious and unsafe environment where they can be forcibly infantilized.

Take any of the kids that join, say a group sport at school.  Within no time they mature very quickly in ways like having respect for others, themselves, organizing and being responsible for their own equipment, getting to practice on time, healthier friendships etc. Now take the conceptual reverse. That's ASR.

Many of you focus too much on the bumps in the road and not the destination. Is it a tough road, yes, no question about it!! But many of the kids are reduced to whimpering shadows of their former selves when they get home, and that's exactly what we hoped to accomplish.

[Deborah]

Some of my feed back to ASR was the transition back home and I heard from other parents that ASR has addressed the issue and transitions are much smoother now.

What did that entail?

I think one thing you are missing here is many of the kids which enter ASR are very immature for their age and the maturation process can be accelerated if the child is placed in a mature and safe environment where they can thrive and grow.

What's a mature environment? Being warehoused with other kids who are "immature for their age"? You contradict yourself. Aggregation of distressed (immature?) kids is not recommended.

[TheWho]

Well, that?s a good point, I can see how that would not be clear.  Not all the kids are at the same maturity level at ASR.  By mature environment I am talking about the structure they receive, the responsibilities they are given and expected to do.  Living in a world with consequences.  Modeling after counselors and more mature peers in their group.  Learning and receiving tools to assist in a mature approach to daily challenges and conflict resolution etc.
If you are attending a calculus class and everyone in the class is there for the first time and knows nothing about calculus it isn?t a recipe for failure.

As far as the specific changes to transition go, I do not have the details.  I believe there was a person who had a child who graduated recently and we can get the question to her

[Programmie-Trans 9000]

Well, that?s a good point, but I can't see it at all. Not all the kids start out equally victimized at ASR.  By regressive environment I am talking about the reaming they receive, the indignities they are given and expected to receive quietly. Living in a world with random 'consequences' enforced by unpredictable staff.  Modeling after professional sadists and more regressed peers in their group. Learning and receiving tools to assist in a twisted approach to daily humiliation and snitching on their peers in group etc.
If you are attending a mindrape session and everyone in the session is there for the first time and has never had this happen to them before it isn?t a recipe for failure.

As far as the specific changes to transition go, I do not have the details.  I believe there was a blatantly obvious marketer who pretended to have a child who graduated recently and we can get the question to her

[Anonymous]

I have wondered why people are so suspicous about parent stories.

Maybe it is because it is so easy to make one story up.

Here is a fake one in progress:http://http://www.asstr.org/files/Authors/JensenDenmark/mothersconcern.txt

But we also need to understand that there is no reality we all can agree on. I see the world in a different way than the person next to me.

As I can understand, JustaMon did something which is out of order, when it comes to the normal inmates at ASR. She drove her son up there herself. That speaks for some degree of commitment from her son. Commitment is the real factor when we are talking of whether it is OK for not for the child to be locked up.

If a 16 year old boy or girl want to lock themselves up in a monastery in order to serve god, would that be OK?
If they feel afraid of the surrunding world and wants to lock themselves up in a TBS, would that be OK?

Properly yes in both answers.

But they have to ask for it themselves! They should be allowed a trial stay for 2 week - fully paid of course. If they want to leave at the end of the 2 weeks - they should.

But what if the child is sick? I have suggestion. Change the laws so a court has to judge in every case. Let the court and the local school district be the deciding factor when it comes to treatment or the need to be locked up. Waste of tax-payers money would soon come to an end. Only facilities with a certain amount to quality would survive.

To the parents: I am fully assured of the fact that you love your children and you think that you took action in their favour. No one is questioned that, but in all other aspect of our society it is the court, not private interests, which decide who belong behind bars and not.

Some degree of protection of the childs rights is missing when a child in locked up at a TBS.

[Deborah]

Well, that?s a good point, I can see how that would not be clear.  Not all the kids are at the same maturity level at ASR.  By mature environment I am talking about the structure they receive, the responsibilities they are given and expected to do.  Living in a world with consequences.  Modeling after counselors and more mature peers in their group.  Learning and receiving tools to assist in a mature approach to daily challenges and conflict resolution etc.

Structure, responsibilities, consequences, appropriate modeling, learning tools, conflict resolution.
That's parenting. And doesn't require residential 'treatment'.
Where's the breakdown? What prevented you, as a parent, from providing these things at home?

If you are attending a calculus class and everyone in the class is there for the first time and knows nothing about calculus it isn?t a recipe for failure.

It damn well may be if they're all "immature" and/or lack an aptitude for math. They may learn more about the 'evils' of the world, than calculus.

As far as the specific changes to transition go, I do not have the details.  I believe there was a person who had a child who graduated recently and we can get the question to her

Who is this "We", that ocassionally slips out in your communications? You work with a team?

[TheWho]

Structure, responsibilities, consequences, appropriate modeling, learning tools, conflict resolution.
That's parenting. And doesn't require residential 'treatment'.
Where's the breakdown? What prevented you, as a parent, from providing these things at home?

No it doesn?t in most cases I agree. A family can have several children and they all do fine except one which gets off track for some reason, the cause could be multiple reasons, conflict, in with a bad crowd, present environment isnt working for that child for some reason, etc.
 Its like changing a light bulb.  It comes naturally to almost everyone, you untwist it and replace it.  But every once in awhile a bulb will get stuck and will break off while you are trying to remove it and may require a special tool to remove it and in some rare occasions you may have to have an electrician repair/replace the fixture.  Doesn?t mean the home owner isn?t doing their job and it isn?t the light bulbs fault either, it just means every situation is different and some require more work than others.

The other option is to just ignore it and live in the dark and hope it repairs itself someday?. But this isn?t a healthy choice for anyone.

[TheWho]

WHO!

That metaphor sucks worse than the half baked pizza one on the TB video. I demand you come up with another one. One that doesn't compare kids to a lightbulb, fence post, aborted fetus, or half baked pizza.

Do it now or I replace the new GIF sig that I installed in your honor with something really revolting.

No....No, please anything but that!!!  I will try to come up with something

[TheWho]

Okay try this one:

Its like being a caretaker in charge of a family of limo?s for a limo service.  You keep them in good repair, when new models come out you get educated on the latest techniques to keep them in good running order, change the breaks when needed, tires, change the oil, clean the screens in the transmission, align the front end each month.  But one day the 2002 Mercedes stretch develops an engine noise and you get right to work, order the Chiltons manual do some online research, maybe adjust the valves, but all  to no avail.  So you call up some local people to come look at it and they work on it for a few weeks and finally a consensus of professions agree that the car needs to be sent out for repair.  This makes the man sad and it will affect the synergy of the entire fleet to have the Mercedes stretch 2002 gone from home, but it is for the best decision for everyone involved.  Another option would be to replace all the oil in her crankcase with STP and the sound will go away,  but research has shown that although this is correct it is only a short term fix and will only serve to mask the problem and postpone the inevitable and probably makes things worse.
So this decision to send the car off doesn?t mean the stretch limo caretaker doesn?t care enough about Mercedes stretch 2002 to keep her home, he knows the sacrifice will affect everyone and in the end she will become a happy member of the fleet again.