ASR

[Anne Bonney]

sorry to offend you,

You don't offend me.  You offend your daughter and potential marks.

 

I just think the forum should be open to both.

Your presence would indicate that it obviously is.

well it does, yes, you are right.  But by level field, I am talking about discussions from parents who have had a good experience.  You have to admit if 2 parents came on here, one who said the TBS mislead them and took their money and another who said their child is doing great, they would be treated the same?

You didn't say level the field, you said it should be open to both.  It is.  As far as level, well...it's a survivors forum.  I don't suppose it would be a level field if I went over to the ASR forum now would it?

[TheWho]

You didn't say level the field, you said it should be open to both. It is. As far as level, well...it's a survivors forum. I don't suppose it would be a level field if I went over to the ASR forum now would it?

True enough, just tough to see information lost.  I like to see both sides of the discussion.  I wouldnt want to be in an ASR forum if everyone was pro ASR and others were chased away because they had a bad experience.  It's hard seeing moms and dads, kids chased away because they they are sharing a good experience here, I see it as lost opportunity for both sides.  But as you say it is a survivors forum and the walls are likely to come up when that type of talk happens, I do understand.

_________________

[hanzomon4]

justaMom I got the other questions if you still want to participate..........

• Did your son know that you were taking him to ASR?
  
• Could you elaborate on what base camp consisted of?
  
  You mentioned that your son started to withdraw in base camp and that the pdoc went out to asses him in 40 degree weather.  What makes you think that this environment has any therapeutic value to treat what you say is a mental problem not behavioral?  
  
• Did your son ever give you specifics about the incident with the PE teacher?
  
• You said that your son knew that you wouldn't give in and take him home and that the staff knew this. That mentality is a gold mine for programs because they don't need to convince you to ignore your child's pleads.  Part of breaking a kid is causing them to lose hope of ever getting out. From what you said about ASR requiring wilderness first for students who need escorts is a hallmark of the "break them down " to "build them up" tough-love think..
  
  Did your son ever tell you if other students were dropped to a lower peer group or faced any type of consequence for trying to get their parents to take them home?
  
• What could you and "son" talk about during your phone calls, did he feel like he could tell you anything or did he feel restricted in what he could talk about?
  
• Could your son call other relatives or close friends?
  
• Was mail read before being sent out or given to your son?
  
• In group therapy did the kids have to talk about deeply personal, perhaps embarrassing, things?
  
• Were kids confronted for not participating in group sessions?
  
• Were kids ever told that they were not being honest or open enough in group?
  
• Did your son ever witness or experience anyone being broken down, berated, or humiliated by the group or staff leading the group?
  
• Did your son have to read letters written by you to the group? Sometimes these are called impacted letters or some other ambiguous term....
  
• How often did your son meet with his therapist?
  
• You mentioned quiet a few times how your son could wait out therapist and fight the system without attacking it. What did ASR do to get pass this?
  
  If a kid did not want to participate were they forced, and if so how?
  
• Was isolation, excessive exercise or work detail used on kids as punishment for not participating? And could you elaborate on the self-reflections, how long were they? Why did kids get put on self studies? How did they get off of self studies? What happened if they just refused to cooperate?  
  
• You mentioned peer groups, this is the same as levels, stages, insert-term, etc... It's all program speak that means the same thing and serves the same purpose.
  
  What could get a kid dropped to a lower peer group?
  
  Did the upper peer-groups or class have any type of power over the lower groups?
  
  Also what was consider privileges at ASR?
  
• Did staff encourage kids to rat on others in their peer group for negative behavior? And what was considered negative behavior?
  
   
• For the nonprofessional staff, whom you feel only require a background check, what was their function in the program? How often were they in contact with the students?
  
• What makes you say that ASR should not be JACHO accredited? Your son went there for a mental condition, he had to participate in therapy, he had a therapist and psychiatrist who dispensed meds.....
  
  That's a psychiatric facility, "specialty school" is a bogus term programs use to avoid more rigorous licensing guidelines...  
  
• Where did these problem students get sent by ASR, you mentioned something about Costa Rica. I assume you know the warning given by the US state department in regards to overseas programs, so what could these other programs do that ASR couldn't do?

Like I said earlier no one is going to pull any punches or walk on egg shells around you. If you want to benefit from the first hand knowledge of programs by actual program survivors you gotta have thick skin.

Some may be blunt others may be assholes, what they won't be is cowed or intimidated and you shouldn't be either.  I'm here to ask you some questions and have a conversation if you don't wish to participate thats ok with me.

[hanzomon4]

sorry to offend you,

You don't offend me.  You offend your daughter and potential marks.

 

I just think the forum should be open to both.

Your presence would indicate that it obviously is.

well it does, yes, you are right.  But by level field, I am talking about discussions from parents who have had a good experience.  You have to admit if 2 parents came on here, one who said the TBS mislead them and took their money and another who said their child is doing great, they would be treated the same?

Listen ¿wHo? parents and students have a fucked up few of success in programs. A girl who went through Thayer Leaning Center thought that it was for the best even though she admits they forced her to eat her own vomit.

I ask questions of those claiming good program experiences because they never elaborate or give day to day details and don't understand the nature of abuse in many of these facilities. Those with horror stories do give details so the need for these QAs is mostly redundant. If you have shit to say about fair and balanced please say it else where.

I don't like you ¡WhO?(I like the name though) and you're a magnet for useless debate, so if you feel like I'm being hard on just you you're right.

[TheWho]

sorry to offend you,

You don't offend me.  You offend your daughter and potential marks.

 

I just think the forum should be open to both.

Your presence would indicate that it obviously is.

well it does, yes, you are right.  But by level field, I am talking about discussions from parents who have had a good experience.  You have to admit if 2 parents came on here, one who said the TBS mislead them and took their money and another who said their child is doing great, they would be treated the same?

Listen ¿wHo? parents and students have a fucked up few of success in programs. A girl who went through Thayer Leaning Center thought that it was for the best even though she admits they forced her to eat her own vomit.

I ask questions of those claiming good program experiences because they never elaborate or give day to day details and don't understand the nature of abuse in many of these facilities. Those with horror stories do give details so the need for these QAs is mostly redundant. If you have shit to say about fair and balanced please say it else where.

I don't like you ¡WhO?(I like the name though) and you're a magnet for useless debate, so if you feel like I'm being hard on just you you're right.

I never refered to your questions , no need to get defensive.  In fact I think they brought out some very good aspects of "justamoms "sons experiences.
What I think is unfortunate is the responses she gets for being honest vs how a person who is telling stories in a negative light is received......  I think that is why fornits is seeing mostly only one side of the picture....

[Anonymous]

It'd be different if she was real.

Now fuck off.

[Deborah]

What I think is unfortunate is the responses she gets for being honest vs how a person who is telling stories in a negative light is received......  I think that is why fornits is seeing mostly only one side of the picture....

Would you STFU about responses. All the fucking whining about people have to be nice to program parents so they will hang around and whine some more..... wah.  If anything, one side is seen because programmies have no skin, take everything personally, and their sensibilities are easily offended. [Precisely why some kids end up in private pay prisons] Is that someone else's problem? What would the program tell your kid about that?
Not one of you program parents could survive in a program. You'd walk out the first day. Further, not one of you 'really' know what happened on a daily basis, or why it appears to have 'worked'. How can you say that "you" had a positive experience? Someone else took your kid off your hands and changed them... doesn't matter how they went about it, the means justify the end.
And you, nor I, nor anyone else knows if she is being honest or not. For all anyone knows, you and she are Aspen marketers.
If you want to control a forum, start your own. If you allow dissent, I'm sure a few survivors will participate.

[TheWho]

What I think is unfortunate is the responses she gets for being honest vs how a person who is telling stories in a negative light is received......  I think that is why fornits is seeing mostly only one side of the picture....

Would you STFU about responses. All the fucking whining about people have to be nice to program parents so they will hang around and whine some more..... wah.  If anything, one side is seen because programmies have no skin, take everything personally, and their sensibilities are easily offended. [Precisely why some kids end up in private pay prisons] Is that someone else's problem? What would the program tell your kid about that?
Not one of you program parents could survive in a program. You'd walk out the first day. Further, not one of you 'really' know what happened on a daily basis, or why it appears to have 'worked'. How can you say that "you" had a positive experience? Someone else took your kid off your hands and changed them... doesn't matter how they went about it, the means justify the end.
And you, nor I, nor anyone else knows if she is being honest or not. For all anyone knows, you and she are Aspen marketers.
If you want to control a forum, start your own. If you allow dissent, I'm sure a few survivors will participate.

I guess, Deborah, what I am trying to say is :  Lets say this was a Parents survival forum and some child came on here and gave their experience and her story was met with skepticism and sarcastic remarks,  like ?those responses sound like they were cut and pasted?,  ?Oh, she only gave her 3 year old sister heroin once, wa,wa,wa, that?s not a big deal!?,  ?go ahead,punk, run away don?t answer any of our questions?.all these program kids are the same, thin skinned, you place them on one reflection and they yell abuse!!...?you give them work to do, like us parents have to do, and have them clean their dorm and they yell child labor laws, they have no idea what us parents had to go thru, all I hear is me,me,me!!??. I wish they would go away I am sick of hearing about it?.


 If I was on that forum I would intervene apologize to the child for the rude behavior and try to get the child to stay and ask the other parents to cut the crap??  they may, they may not, but I would at least try to keep that child around to allow her to speak.

[TheWho]

Funny how quickly you dismiss the stories of survivors though and embrace the positive stories of parents.

If you looked back, you would find this not to be the case.  As an example, Goodtobefree had a very bad experience and I was supportive of his story and accounts of his time their and even paralleled them to those of my daughters.

[Anonymous]

:roll:

The only thing worse than talking to poorly-written fictional characters is talking to TheWho.

[TheWho]

:roll:

The only thing worse than talking to poorly-written fictional characters is talking to TheWho.

Thank you Lactose,  Case and , point.

[TheWho]

And your feelings on Nalex who did a fairly decent job exposing ASR for being a fraud?

I Wasnt involved in that conversation.

[TheWho]

Did a search on Nalex and I just checked out your Sticky from the Aspen group thread (Didn?t know it as Nalex).  I remember, I read this, his accounts were in line with what my daughter experienced....I dont discount his account.

[Deborah]

I guess, Deborah, what I am trying to say is :  Lets say this was a Parents survival forum and some child came on here and gave their experience and her story was met with skepticism and sarcastic remarks,  like ?those responses sound like they were cut and pasted?,  ?Oh, she only gave her 3 year old sister heroin once, wa,wa,wa, that?s not a big deal!?,  ?go ahead,punk, run away don?t answer any of our questions?.all these program kids are the same, thin skinned, you place them on one reflection and they yell abuse!!...?you give them work to do, like us parents have to do, and have them clean their dorm and they yell child labor laws, they have no idea what us parents had to go thru, all I hear is me,me,me!!??. I wish they would go away I am sick of hearing about it?.

Why does that sound familiar?  StrugglingTeens?

If I was on that forum I would intervene apologize to the child for the rude behavior and try to get the child to stay and ask the other parents to cut the crap??  they may, they may not, but I would at least try to keep that child around to allow her to speak.

In case you haven't noticed, precisely what happens here. And precisely what you've done in this thread. We'll see how it works out.

[TheWho]

I guess, Deborah, what I am trying to say is :  Lets say this was a Parents survival forum and some child came on here and gave their experience and her story was met with skepticism and sarcastic remarks,  like ?those responses sound like they were cut and pasted?,  ?Oh, she only gave her 3 year old sister heroin once, wa,wa,wa, that?s not a big deal!?,  ?go ahead,punk, run away don?t answer any of our questions?.all these program kids are the same, thin skinned, you place them on one reflection and they yell abuse!!...?you give them work to do, like us parents have to do, and have them clean their dorm and they yell child labor laws, they have no idea what us parents had to go thru, all I hear is me,me,me!!??. I wish they would go away I am sick of hearing about it?.

Why does that sound familiar?  StrugglingTeens?

If I was on that forum I would intervene apologize to the child for the rude behavior and try to get the child to stay and ask the other parents to cut the crap??  they may, they may not, but I would at least try to keep that child around to allow her to speak.

In case you haven't noticed, precisely what happens here. And precisely what you've done in this thread. We'll see how it works out.

Never been on Struggling teens, If they do that it is wrong....Just making a comment, dont want to stir up a debate...thanks.