Why don't WE make a program?

[Anonymous]

Julie- I actually feel sorry for darling Katie. You are in for a big shock when she goes through the NORMAL emotions and behavior of puberty.

How do you explain families with ONE out of control teen where the other kids behave within the norms of society?  Bad parenting of just this one kid?

Yep, there are plenty of bad parents out there- I fall into that category in many ways. However, not all kids with bad parents steal, abuse substances and get kicked out of school.  The issue is- once the teen is in trouble (no matter whether it is due to poor parenting, peer pressure, the brain functions of the kid, whatever) what is the best course of action.  I absolutely know that YOU are in no position to make this call or criticize a parent until you stand in their shoes.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-08 09:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Julie- I actually feel sorry for darling Katie. You are in for a big shock when she goes through the NORMAL emotions and behavior of puberty.



How do you explain families with ONE out of control teen where the other kids behave within the norms of society?  Bad parenting of just this one kid?



Yep, there are plenty of bad parents out there- I fall into that category in many ways. However, not all kids with bad parents steal, abuse substances and get kicked out of school.  The issue is- once the teen is in trouble (no matter whether it is due to poor parenting, peer pressure, the brain functions of the kid, whatever) what is the best course of action.  I absolutely know that YOU are in no position to make this call or criticize a parent until you stand in their shoes."

Well I have.  With two kids.  Been through more than I care to think about with them and never once considered resorting to shipping one of them off somewhere.  I don't shirk my responsibilities.

[TheWho]

For instance, if the clients engage in criminal behavior or very risky behavior and we are unable to bring them into line, the state or some other program similar to ours will step in.

What if a group was formed which could step in and help or take over if their present program fails to work and move the child to a safe environment if needed.  They could work to help get the original program back on track without ridicule or finger pointing to either the program or the clients, just a little old fashion root cause analysis with the goal of bringing the clients back to their respective programs.  A safe place could be built to provide a haven which would foster and continue growth in the clients, while the long term program is being repaired or a new one identified.  
Clients from failed programs and those damaged by sub programs may be able to help define what works and what doesn?t.

[TheWho]

Well I have. With two kids. Been through more than I care to think about with them and never once considered resorting to shipping one of them off somewhere. I don't shirk my responsibilities.

Julie -- Getting outside help, is just that, seeking help.  Whether people do it locally or off sight.  With your definition, seeking a therapist to help or shipping your kid off to a public based school system (one size fits all) every morning, is to shirk ones responsibilities.  Some would argue everyone should home school, getting tutoring for your child is an obvious flaw in ones parenting skills.  You have a personal opinion, which is fine, but you should not judge the way others seek help for their children.

[Anonymous]

Can't people see that shipping their kids off is not the answer? Most kids getting sent to these programs are normal, annoying, adolescents. Because that's what this stage of life is about. Annoying the heck out of your parents, didn't we all do it? Didn't we all push our limits? Didn't we all explore and experiment? Didn't we all at one time or another do something that today could have landed us in some "program"? Luckily most of us didn't land in a program, most of us were allowed to grow, make mistakes, learn from our mistakes, and become productive and normal adults.

But today so many "normal" kids doing those annoying things - smoking a little pot (not that I think it's OK, I don't, but it's part of the process), sneaking out with their parents' car, or being unlucky enough to have ADHD or any other label put upon them - are locked up in what is supposed to be a place to help them. When in reality so many of the adults working in those places are saddistic pigs getting their jollies off of beating and torturing kids. Don't believe it? What about Martin Lee Anderson? What about the others who died while being restrained, the breath and life sucked right out of them because some 300 pound fool wouldn't listen when the child said he couldn't breathe.

Parents need to parent, plain and simple. In my opinion, when you have a child you are responsible to care for that child until he or she is grown. Not until it's no longer convenient. And it's up to we parents to show our children love and respect, to give our children a large amount of our time, not just the leftovers because our lives are too busy. Single parents are so busy dating that they leave their kids home alone, sometimes all night, and then wonder why they have problems with them later. Then when they remarry the kid is seen as a problem, and the parents find a very easy solution. Send him/her away to be fixed.

Just an opinion ......

[MomCat]

Forgot to log in, the last post was mine:

 Can't people see that shipping their kids off is not the answer? Most kids getting sent to these programs are normal, annoying, adolescents. Because that's what this stage of life is about. Annoying the heck out of your parents, didn't we all do it? Didn't we all push our limits? Didn't we all explore and experiment? Didn't we all at one time or another do something that today could have landed us in some "program"? Luckily most of us didn't land in a program, most of us were allowed to grow, make mistakes, learn from our mistakes, and become productive and normal adults.

But today so many "normal" kids doing those annoying things - smoking a little pot (not that I think it's OK, I don't, but it's part of the process), sneaking out with their parents' car, or being unlucky enough to have ADHD or any other label put upon them - are locked up in what is supposed to be a place to help them. When in reality so many of the adults working in those places are saddistic pigs getting their jollies off of beating and torturing kids. Don't believe it? What about Martin Lee Anderson? What about the others who died while being restrained, the breath and life sucked right out of them because some 300 pound fool wouldn't listen when the child said he couldn't breathe.

Parents need to parent, plain and simple. In my opinion, when you have a child you are responsible to care for that child until he or she is grown. Not until it's no longer convenient. And it's up to we parents to show our children love and respect, to give our children a large amount of our time, not just the leftovers because our lives are too busy. Single parents are so busy dating that they leave their kids home alone, sometimes all night, and then wonder why they have problems with them later. Then when they remarry the kid is seen as a problem, and the parents find a very easy solution. Send him/her away to be fixed.

Just an opinion ......

[Anonymous]

Julie -- Getting outside help, is just that, seeking help.

One man's help is another man's torture.

[Anonymous]

"Most kids getting sent to these programs are normal, annoying, adolescents."

I sat in a group of 20 or so parents at my kid's TBS and listened while each parent told the story of how they wound up there.  I can assure you that NONE of these kids were being "normal, annoying adolescents."  That is, unless you count violence towards family members, stealing from family and the parents of friends, serious substance abuse, sexual promiscuity, abusive relationships and ruining one's educational opportunities "normal and annoying". Without exception, these parents loved and cherished their teens, and were willing to do absolutely anything to help them. I wish there was some way you could understand this.

[try another castle]

On 2006-03-08 08:16:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:

You know what I haven't heard a lot about? Carlbrook. Why doesn't anyone talk about that school? It would be nice to know what the plusses and minuses were.

Look at the Carlbrook thread. There are at least two parents posting there. The school is only a few years old. There was lots of info. given by a guy who had a son actually graduate from there. The jury is still out. But, don't you at least HOPE the place is OK or are you just hoping to prove your side. I'm hoping for the kids that are there that the founders have developed a program that cobines elements that actually work for at least some of the kids.

Well, actually I was being sarcastic. I'm officially carlbrook-ed out on this forum.

But seriously. What's this carlbrook I've heard of? Is that like, a school or something?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-08 13:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

""Most kids getting sent to these programs are normal, annoying, adolescents."


 That is, unless you count violence towards family members, stealing from family and the parents of friends, serious substance abuse, sexual promiscuity, abusive relationships and ruining one's educational opportunities "normal and annoying".

With the exception of violence, yes..I would consider them to be annoying periods of teenagedom.  It's all in how you deal with it.  And don't start on how I must not know.  I've seen two teenagers through some of the nasties, scariest times possible.  If you're an all-or-nothing, black-and-white kind of parent that sees all drug use, sex and general screwing around with the education as the proverbial "danger signs" then yeah, I could see how you'd fall for their schpeil (sp?).  I think parents today are freaked out and completely floored when their kids start to actually develop minds and thoughts of their own.  They become easy marks not just for the programs but for the whole flawed system that sets them up for a lifetime of self-doubt and adherence to an unrealistic set of standards.

Without exception, these parents loved and cherished their teens, and were willing to do absolutely anything to help them. I wish there was some way you could understand this."

I do understand it.  I don't think they're all evil, selfish people (although some clearly are).  They patsies and pawns.  They're easy marks.  They're scared and vulnerable which makes them prime targets for those looking to exploit them for their own gain, be it financial or some sick need to be 'the savior'.

[TheWho]

I do understand it. I don't think they're all evil, selfish people (although some clearly are). They patsies and pawns. They're easy marks. They're scared and vulnerable which makes them prime targets for those looking to exploit them for their own gain, be it financial or some sick need to be 'the savior'

It doesn?t matter what the parents are.  They are all different, all different circumstances.  Sure some may be taken advantage of, it happens in all walks of life.
You pull into a gas station with a flat and no spare and out of state plates, do you think the owners of the station are going to be worried that you wont buy their tires and maybe lower their price?  Just the opposite, sure the driver is between a rock and a hard place and he may still have other options or maybe not.  But the fact remains the car has a flat and needs repair, it doesn?t matter how good or bad the driver is or if he/she is an easy mark or a patsy.

You have a person who provides a service (Schools) and someone looking for a service (parents).  Sometimes it?s a buyers market, sometimes it a sellers market.  Its not black and white each case is different.

[Anonymous]

You pull into a gas station with a flat and no spare and out of state plates, do you think the owners of the station are going to be worried that you wont buy their tires and maybe lower their price? Just the opposite, sure the driver is between a rock and a hard place and he may still have other options or maybe not. But the fact remains the car has a flat and needs repair, it doesn?t matter how good or bad the driver is or if he/she is an easy mark or a patsy.

How about if the tire they sold you blew out ten miles down the road? That's how most of us feel about these programs.

What if they were allied with the ones laying the nails out in the road in the first place?

[TheWho]

How about if the tire they sold you blew out ten miles down the road? That's how most of us feel about these programs.

Well, your right that does happen, even your best brands have a failure rate.  At least you are ten miles further down the road and hopefully no worse off.  But you are out a few bucks which you will never see again.

[Anonymous]

The program parents I met are not what I would consider to be "easy marks".  Most of them are very successful and discerning professionals who are used to analyzing all the options and making informed choices.  The choice of an emotional growth program was not made in haste or without thorough investigation.  This is a large expense and involves the most important thing in your life- your child.  I can assure you that these parents-at least the ones I met through the 2 programs my kid attended- are on top of things.  If a program is totally deceitful, it's a different story, but that was not the case with these 2 places.

Is it normal teen behavior to steal from the family or parents of friends?  Maybe we parents have a different tolerance level, but I can assure you that my kid agrees that his behavior was not within the bounds of acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Well, your right that does happen, even your best brands have a failure rate. At least you are ten miles further down the road and hopefully no worse off. But you are out a few bucks which you will never see again.

Might feel differently if you crashed off the side of the road because of your faulty tire, all the while driving full speed trusting the shop didn't sell you a worn out tire intstead of a new one.