Author Topic: Why don't WE make a program?  (Read 22203 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #150 on: March 08, 2006, 10:34:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-08 09:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Julie- I actually feel sorry for darling Katie. You are in for a big shock when she goes through the NORMAL emotions and behavior of puberty.



How do you explain families with ONE out of control teen where the other kids behave within the norms of society?  Bad parenting of just this one kid?



Yep, there are plenty of bad parents out there- I fall into that category in many ways. However, not all kids with bad parents steal, abuse substances and get kicked out of school.  The issue is- once the teen is in trouble (no matter whether it is due to poor parenting, peer pressure, the brain functions of the kid, whatever) what is the best course of action.  I absolutely know that YOU are in no position to make this call or criticize a parent until you stand in their shoes."


You get one kid who is a screw up and other kids who fit other roles because that's the way dysfunctional families work.

Or rather, the way they don't work.

The screw up kid serves the function of distracting the rest of the family from their own problems.

The hero kid serves the function of "proving" to the family that the family itself is not screwed up or it couldn't have such a terrific kid.

And so forth.

I don't need to "explain" it---the literature on adult children of alcoholics, and the literature that extends that to dysfunctional families generally, is chock full of examples.

I've never been a drunk driver, either, but I don't have to "stand in the shoes" of a drunk driver to know it's bad to drink and drive.

*I'm* in for a big shock?  I'm not the one who fucked up parenting my kid so much I shipped him off to strangers to have him "fixed."

You're just bitter because you fucked up the job.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #151 on: March 08, 2006, 11:02:00 PM »
You don't know yet whether you fucked up your parenting job or not!  Time will tell, but I can tell from your writing that your own unresolved issues will affect darling Katie.  Give it a few years.
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Offline Anonymous

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #152 on: March 08, 2006, 11:34:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-08 20:02:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You don't know yet whether you fucked up your parenting job or not!  Time will tell, but I can tell from your writing that your own unresolved issues will affect darling Katie.  Give it a few years. "


Bitter, much?

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #153 on: March 08, 2006, 11:41:00 PM »
Not at all bitter.  Maybe a little smug when I read the crap you write, but not bitter. I am glad I had the resources to get my kid the help he needed.  I have two wonderful, smart and talented kids who are making the most of their lives.  I truly hope things work out for you and darling Katie.  May she still be darling at 15!
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Offline try another castle

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #154 on: March 09, 2006, 12:05:00 AM »
Hey Eudora, you know how you have a graphic for a bullshit-o-meter? Do you think you can make one for a condescension-o-meter?
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #155 on: March 09, 2006, 01:59:00 AM »
find one, host it, and use the img tags :wink:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline Kuduk

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #156 on: March 09, 2006, 10:07:00 AM »
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On 2006-03-08 20:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Not at all bitter.  Maybe a little smug when I read the crap you write, but not bitter. I am glad I had the resources to get my kid the help he needed.  I have two wonderful, smart and talented kids who are making the most of their lives.  I truly hope things work out for you and darling Katie.  May she still be darling at 15!"


I might believe you if you didn't spend your free time trying to convince others of this.

What experiences and history teach is this-that people and government never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.

--G.W.F Hegel (1770-1831)

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Offline TheWho

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #157 on: March 09, 2006, 07:00:00 PM »
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The Who, I really hope you'll read Maia's book. I'd like to hear your thoughts. I think there may be hope for you. You stick around this nuthouse, dish it out and take it with the best of us and most importantly like I said earlier, I think at heart you're a decent man.

Help At Any Cost explains this much better than I could. Did I mention that I want you to read it?  


I will take a look at the book, thanks for not giving up on me !! {Smile}
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Offline try another castle

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #158 on: March 09, 2006, 10:21:00 PM »
I still maintain that the trip to Europe is a good idea. Just because a kid needs a change of scenery and might need to be sent away doesn't necessarily mean that the experience needs to be punitive. Maia suggests living with a relative for a while as one possibility. And I say, if you are going to sink a shitload of cash for residential treatment, just send them on a tour of fucking Europe. I guarantee you, they will come back looking at things differently, and they may have actually made some new friends. The time lost from school is probably no great loss, compared to the sorry excuse for an "education" they would get in a program anyway. Better to take a year off, and then come back and get an education in a REAL school.

If you are worried about them getting into trouble, well of COURSE they will get into trouble. But it will be in a new fun way! In another country! Away from you!

And they might actually do some fucking growing up.

_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-03-09 19:24 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #159 on: March 09, 2006, 10:34:00 PM »
OK- so you have a kid who is stealing, wrecking cars, getting thrown out of school, abusing substances, being violent towards the family, disrespecting everyone- and you suggest rewarding him with a 1 year all-expense paid trip to Europe!
Can I be reincarnated as one of your kids?
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Offline try another castle

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #160 on: March 09, 2006, 10:37:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-09 19:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"OK- so you have a kid who is stealing, wrecking cars, getting thrown out of school, abusing substances, being violent towards the family, disrespecting everyone- and you suggest rewarding him with a 1 year all-expense paid trip to Europe!

Can I be reincarnated as one of your kids?"


Absolutely for the trip, negative for the reincarnation.

I mean, fuck, that's what rich people USED to do for their trouble-maker kids, and a lot of those kids ended up being multi-millionare business moguls... or the president of the united states.

_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-03-09 19:45 ]
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Offline TheWho

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #161 on: March 09, 2006, 11:28:00 PM »
The Europe trip may work for some, but if they screw-up over seas they can be a lot tougher jails there.  Talk about isolation, food, lack of phones etc..  I am not sure I would want to risk it.

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If you really want to hurt your parents, and you don?t have the nerve to be a homosexual, the least you can do is go into the arts. But do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites, standing for absolutely nothing. All they do is show you?ve been to college.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
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Offline Anonymous

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #162 on: March 09, 2006, 11:41:00 PM »
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On 2006-03-09 19:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"OK- so you have a kid who is stealing, wrecking cars, getting thrown out of school, abusing substances, being violent towards the family, disrespecting everyone- and you suggest rewarding him with a 1 year all-expense paid trip to Europe!

Can I be reincarnated as one of your kids?"


Which can either describe:

a kid who took a few bucks out of your purse, had a fender bender, got suspended for getting in a scuffle with a romantic rival, has been getting drunk at parties on weekends and comes home smelling of burnt oak leaves, slapped Mama *back*, and mouths off....

OR

A kid who stole the neighbor's car and drove it drunk, smashing into a car full of kids driven by a pregnant lady, got expelled for getting caught selling pot in the school bathroom, has track marks all up and down his arm and a meth lab in his room, punched out his little sister, and mouths off.

One's a normal teen who's a bit wild, the other's a juvenile criminal.

With the whole spectrum in between.

Taking it from normal kid all down through the spectrum, you can go pretty far down that spectrum before the kid needs to go to juvie jail, and you can go pretty far down that spectrum handling the individual incidents of bad behavior with Mom Fu.

You know what?  If you fuck up badly enough as a parent that your teenager is *almost* but *not quite* bad enough for juvie jail, abuses drugs but isn't an addict, is moody as hell but not actually mentally ill, has hit you or the other parent but not quite bad enough or often enough to call the cops and press charges----if you screwed up bad enough that that's your kid, then that kid's teenage years are just your karma or your cross to bear (depending on your religious orientation) for being ultra-permissive, or ultra-controlling, or spending all your time on other stuff and ignoring the kid, or screwing up your kid's domestic life with marrying a jerk---whatever your major malfunction was, what goes around comes around and that almost-too-terrible kid is your problem that you've earned.

You know what?  If you go out and buy all your meals at Burger Thing, and your butt gets fat as a house, you've earned that butt, you've *made* that butt, and you have to live with that butt unless you can somehow work hard enough *in the right way* to make it better.

So, if your kid is all that bad, then you've made that butt and you're stuck with living with that butt.  If you work hard with him *in the right way* you might be able to make him be not such a big butt.

Just thank your lucky stars that when you make yourself a big teenage butt you can get rid of him in five years or less.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #163 on: March 09, 2006, 11:57:00 PM »
Okay, that was cold, but look at all these Program Parents.  Their whole argument boils down to, "My teenager is a big, fat butt.  He's a bigger butt than you can ever possibly imagine.  I have the right and duty to send that big butt off to private prison so that they can shrink him down to size for me while I sit on my arse and pretend to be 'working on my issues.'"

If you've got a big, fat butt, then you can't walk in here and expect us to pretend along with you that there aren't a whole lot of cheeseburgers and supersized soft drinks that went into making that big butt.

You sat around on that old parental couch in one way or another and woke up one day to find out you'd grown a great big butt.  Now you want to scream, "It's not my fault!" or, "I know I'm not perfect, I'm working on my issues too!" or, "Where the hell did this big butt come from!" or, "How dare you judge me! You'll have a big butt too, one day, then you'll see!" Meanwhile, you want to offload all the real pain and suffering coming from your mistakes off onto the kid.

It's like liposuction where you somehow figure out a way to stick someone else with all the post-op pain of recovery.  Or a magic diet where you eat chocolate cake and cheeseburgers and your neighbor eats celery sticks, does a bazillion push-ups, and is hungry all the time---and you're the one whose butt shrinks.

Big surprise.  You spent the kid's formative years being self-centered, immature, and self indulgent (in whatever style you picked) and let your kid be the one to suffer for it.

Why would you be any different now?

If your kid is a big butt, then if you quit being self-centered, immature, and self indulgent (in whatever style you have been), then your kid will gradually quit being such a big butt.

Obviously, even after you start doing the right things, it takes awhile to improve your big butt.

Julie
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Offline TheWho

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Why don't WE make a program?
« Reply #164 on: March 09, 2006, 11:58:00 PM »
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So, if your kid is all that bad, then you've made that butt and you're stuck with living with that butt. If you work hard with him *in the right way* you might be able to make him be not such a big butt.

Julie  -- Why cant you have a little understanding and compassion for families who are having problems?  It doesn?t have to be the kids fault or the parents fault.  It could be the dynamics that are not working or causing the problem.  Maybe your butt is fat because of a thyroid condition and you could eat well balanced meals, keep your intake under 1,000 calories/day and work out 3 times a week and still have to deal with a fat butt everyday unless you seek outside help.
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