struggling turkeys discussing fornits

[Dr. Frankiln]

http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... 4;t=000055
Author  Topic: what's with fornits?  
heleneb
Member
Member # 4818

  posted January 11, 2006 03:23 PM                        
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Is anybody real on that site, or are they all disgruntled teens looking to trash every therapeutic program?

I can't wait until they have kids of their own!
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Posts: 63 | From: home | Registered: Jun 2005  |  Logged: 151.201.23.173 |  
 
HStreet
Member
Member # 3697

  posted January 11, 2006 06:02 PM                        
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Unfortunately, many of them have chronological ages way beyond the teenage years. However, almost all are disgruntled former program kids. They are one trick ponies with a sole agenda of bashing every single program. They use the mature tools of vulgar language and insults if anyone dares to support a program. The few specks of accurate and useful information on the site is obscured by all the trash talk. My advice- stay away.
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Posts: 462 | From: TX | Registered: Jun 2003  |  Logged: 70.251.87.157 |  
 
katsmom
Member
Member # 4446

  posted January 11, 2006 07:23 PM                        
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I received vile emails from posters of that site (most seem to be mid 20's?) when I posted here that my daughter was thinking of leaving her program when she turned 18 (she didn't). They basically said I lost the TBS "lotto". Ugh, I feel sympathy for the parents of the people who post there.
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Posts: 210 | From: Los Angeles | Registered: Nov 2004  |  Logged: 69.234.47.26 |  
 
maggie0325
Member
Member # 3191

  posted January 12, 2006 08:50 AM                        
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I, too, have read some of the posts on Fornits. I am a graduate of 20 years and when I read some of the posts referring to the program I graduated from, I can't help wonder what is going on in their lives. I don't understand. I don't think that I am braishwashed (which is what I have been accused of on Fornits)nor am I an advocate of child abuse (another accusation), but I do feel quite strongly that I benefited greatly from my school. I have never claimed that it was perfect, nor have I ever claimed to be perfect as a result of graduating from a TBS ( I just am... hehe). I just did not witness the abuse that is decribed on that site. Never.
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Posts: 36 | From: NC | Registered: Oct 2002  |  Logged: 12.149.100.21 |  
 
HStreet
Member
Member # 3697

  posted January 12, 2006 12:03 PM                        
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What bothers me is the complete refusal of the Fornits posters to recognize that there might actually be some good programs out there and that there are kids who NEED these programs. Any parent who sends a kid to a program is attacked and accused of abdicating all parenting responsibilities.
No program is perfect, and it is not always easy to find the right program for a particular kid. As we know, by the time we get to the point of considering a residential program, we have tried absolutely everything. But- the Fornits geniuses will tell you to "try sitting down and talking to your kid". Why didn't I think of that?
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Posts: 462 | From: TX | Registered: Jun 2003  |  Logged: 70.251.87.157 |  
 
mose
Member
Member # 2980

  posted January 12, 2006 12:19 PM                        
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I do think there are people in this world that have truly unloving abusive horrible parents. These parents continued to ruin their child?s life by sending them away when they really did not need this level of intervention. It seems as if all those kids (who are now young adults) found each other on the internet and congregate complaining about their misfortune at Fornits. They spend endless hours basking in the horror of their teen years and family life trying to convince others not to do what their parents did to them. They all seem to have been dealt a bad hand in life and can?t move on.
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Posts: 899 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2002  |  Logged: 66.108.212.226 |  
 
FS
Member
Member # 3142

  posted January 15, 2006 12:21 PM                        
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It's too bad that this website is so negative and at times down right abusive. It COULD provide a valuable service. Is there a reputable one that allows people to talk freely on the web about programs? If you don't feel comfortable mentioning it here, please private message me.
Thank you.
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Posts: 101 | From: Southeast | Registered: Sep 2002  |  Logged: 71.57.132.103 |  
 
[ This Message was edited by: Dr. Frankiln on 2006-01-15 15:32 ]

[try another castle]

maggie0325
Member
Member # 3191

posted January 12, 2006 08:50 AM
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I, too, have read some of the posts on Fornits. I am a graduate of 20 years and when I read some of the posts referring to the program I graduated from, I can't help wonder what is going on in their lives. I don't understand. I don't think that I am braishwashed (which is what I have been accused of on Fornits)nor am I an advocate of child abuse (another accusation), but I do feel quite strongly that I benefited greatly from my school. I have never claimed that it was perfect, nor have I ever claimed to be perfect as a result of graduating from a TBS ( I just am... hehe). I just did not witness the abuse that is decribed on that site. Never.

I think I know who that is! (If that is the Maggie that went to RMA.) Her verbage is similar to other things I've seen written on the archived CEDU graduates board. (Not the current one.)

I think it's a shame when people are attacked in a less than articulate way because of their beliefs about their own experience. This is on BOTH sides of the fence. I'm sick of the pro CEDU people telling others to get over it and calling them whining babies, and I'm sick of the anti-CEDU people calling others who may view their experience positive or in the grey area brainwashed culties. It's way more complex than that, IMO.

And I'm sorry, but if that other person is telling the truth, hate mail is just NOT OK. (Although they probably shouldn't post their email info, either, if that's how the other people found out about it.)

What I DO take issue with is people who encourage parents to send their children to places like this. But if someone is simply speaking to their own experience, then let them do that. I have no problem with others debating their viewpoint, in fact, I encourage that, but I do have problems with flaming, because it lessens the validity of people who hold that position who are far more articulate on that matter. I think the real issue is that individuals are SO afraid that their own experience is going to be invalidated by someone else's that they get steamed up and act overzealous.

If they want to flame, fine. I believe in freedom of speech. But it doesn't really accomplish anything.

Another thing, and the main point I take issue with, is that strugglingteens is completely one sided. Not only that, they are spreading the myth that fornits is also one sided. These people should come into the CEDU forum sometime. There are flame wars going on constantly between people who think others should get over it, people who had a positive experience and are much more articulate about it than the flamers, people who have mixed feelings about their experience, people who are totally frothy and resentful about it, people who are struggling with emotional fallout because of issues that may have just come to the surface, and people who wanted to warn parents about the CEDU schools (back when they were open), and most recently, Carlbrook, which has an ex-RMA headmaster there. (As well as an ex-Cascade staff member.)

It's the myopic, over-simplified, viewpoints that do the most damage. And stugglingteens is a HUGE culprit of that, because they want to make money referring people to these schools. Any post that offers a differeing viewpoint is immediately removed from their boards, because it lessens the chance of a successful referral. That's downright dishonest, and has the potential to ruin lives.

At least on fornits, all views are welcome, and there is no moderation in many of the forums. As a result, no posts are removed or edited for content. It can get hostile because of that, but no one is silenced.

And maybe the people who are complaining about how there are so many out there who are angry about their experiences need to examine WHY that is, instead of simply thinking it's because there is something implicitly wrong with the character of the ones who are angry. Did they ever think of that? Even on sites that are supposedly pro-CEDU, (like cedugraduates.com, for example,) a great many posters are very negative about their experience. Why do you think that is, hm?

We can't ALL be fucked up immature assholes, you know. And we can't ALL be wrong.

_________________

"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild

[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-15 16:23 ]

[Anonymous]

castle- if you could see the private messages that go back and forth after someone asks about a program on the Program section of strugglingteens, you would be less-inclined to think it is all one-sided. Many of the posters share the bad as well as the good about particular programs.  I know I have shared concerns with others about some of the programs with which I am familiar. It isn't a one-size-fits-all deal, and people need to realize that.

[try another castle]

On 2006-01-15 16:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"castle- if you could see the private messages that go back and forth after someone asks about a program on the Program section of strugglingteens, you would be less-inclined to think it is all one-sided. Many of the posters share the bad as well as the good about particular programs.  I know I have shared concerns with others about some of the programs with which I am familiar. It isn't a one-size-fits-all deal, and people need to realize that."

Well, that's good to know, if that is the case. However, they are still PRIVATE messages, and not ones that are out for all to see. The public posts are still edited or removed. I take issue with that. Not all parents are going to be private messaging people, or feel comfortable doing that. And other parents may not even decide to post on the boards at all, and may just take the public testimony as a given.

It's always the public impression that is the strongest impression.

_________________

"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild

[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-15 16:29 ]

[Troll Control]

These stuggling parents are about the fucking lamest dopes I've ever seen.  What a bunch of losers.

"No, it's not enough that I completely fucked up my kid.   I have to write about it every day.  It's my therapy.  Everyone tells me I did the right thing, even though Johnny killed himself last Christmas when I told him he was going back to the program because of his overblown sense of entitlement."

Nice job, parents!  :roll:

[Anonymous]

I think it's fucking hilarious. All the more good if they hate fornits, I've read that shit forum and if they approved of fonrits I wouldn't be here thats for sure!!  :smokin: and the ultimate punchline is... your kids are going to hate you forever.  :wave:

[Anonymous]

[Troll Control]

That is absolutely great.  Hit the nail right on the head.

[Antigen]

:rofl: Somewhere in the WWASP v PURE transcript, they state Lon's traffic stats. I don't remember the last figures (or even my own, I honestly don't think of it that often) but this site was banging like 10, 100 or 1000 times his.

Jealous, Lon?

ROFL

Seriously, though. I'm not being the least bit sarcastic or snide here. I've never talked w/ the guy. Don't know him at all. But we each have known the other's name for some rime now. And I have to give the guy kudos for faith; faith of the variety that thrives and grows on honest doubt. I'd bet good money that private messages on his site are not all that private. But at least he seems to respect the idea of informed free will enough to let ppl talk candidly together and see what happens.

You'll find you're wrong, Lon. Just lock yourself in a cozy spot for awhile and read the Federalist Papers and some of the historic context. You're as anti American as they come.

But, as Niles says, I'm a patriot because I believe we have the ability to unfuck ourselves. If you ever come to understand that, all's forgiven, come home.

Mean time, muck raking is the craft of introducing fresh air and sunlight on a regular basis to turn bullshit and flotsom into rich, productive soil. That's my interest. My occupation is calling it work.

We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
-- Ben Franklin At the signing of the Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776.

[try another castle]

Somewhere in the WWASP v PURE transcript, they state Lon's traffic stats. I don't remember the last figures (or even my own, I honestly don't think of it that often) but this site was banging like 10, 100 or 1000 times his.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.

What transcript is this you speak of? It sounds like an interesting read.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-01-15 19:57:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:

"

Somewhere in the WWASP v PURE transcript, they state Lon's traffic stats. I don't remember the last figures (or even my own, I honestly don't think of it that often) but this site was banging like 10, 100 or 1000 times his.

That doesn't surprise me in the least.



What transcript is this you speak of? It sounds like an interesting read.
"

WWASP vs PURE Transcript

[Anonymous]

:grin:  :cry2:

[Anonymous]

-----Original Message-----
From:    Lon Woodbury [mailto:lon@woodbury.com]
Sent:   Monday, January 16, 2006 4:52 PM
To:   '**********'
Subject:   RE: Strugglingteens.com Visitor: Consultant Services

Its doesn?t pay to patronize me.

Anybody from fornits can post on our discussion board so long as they can act civil, and avoid such things a personal attacks or profanity, etc.  Not doing this has got several people bounced off the board, which is a more or less permanent situation, or at least until they can convince Jena they can act civil.

The reason participants are not allowed to mention specific programs is because that leads to flame wars, and vindictiveness, etc. However, we have set it up so people can privately respond to posts through email, and that is between the two of them, and doesn?t drag into the discussion somebody who wants to pop off in public to anybody that disagrees with them.

If fornits people are not participating in our discussion board, its because they have been unable to be civil, or have elected to not say anything, or have created a fantasy that their posts will be censored.

Lon Woodbury IECA
Certified Educational Planner


_____________________________________________
From: ********
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:35 PM
To: Lon Woodbury
Subject: RE: Strugglingteens.com Visitor: Consultant Services

i will say it so you can understand let the fornits people respond and if the name a particular school and post info on it and it factually based allow it posted there and if it goes against one parent so what? They bad mouth fomits with their misinformation on the board they know little about. They are generizing the board unfairly. Let us explain out position and explain it by using evidence by using program names and public news accounts and public records we have found without you or jena wiping out the post. Only if we use evidence we may reach the narrow closed mined parents that bad mouth the fornits board if we cant name names and post info anything we say will just be shrugged off. It most likely will be shrugged off anyway but there is more of a chance of them beliving the truth.

 -----Original Message-----
From:    Lon Woodbury [mailto:lon@woodbury.com]
Sent:   Monday, January 16, 2006 12:45 AM
To:     '*******'
Subject:   RE: Strugglingteens.com Visitor: Consultant Services

Your request makes no sense. There has never been any censorship, in any meaning of the word, so far as administration of the board.  If somebody goes over the top and shows disrespect to the others, and away from the concept of respectfully disagreeing or basic decency, or start talking about specific programs, then they will be bounced off the board and depending, their post might be deleted.  So far as anything Jena or I have done, we have always explained to the people exactly why we were taking the action.

As another matter, at times people have deleted their own posts which is their right and is not censorship and especially not board censorship, but they often do not announce they are the ones to delete the posts, but the ignorant would leap to the conclusion that there is some agenda to silence people.

For example, Overlordd promised to behave himself, and posted for quite some time with his concerns and disagreements before he could no longer stand it and started making personal accusations and starting toward violent images, for which he then lost his privileges. Several of his critical posts are still there, if you do a search, which would be contrary to the goal of censorship, as are also some of your posts remaining still there.

If you want to suggest people posting over here, that?s your right, just remind them that we insist on civility here, especially when disagreeing.  People who have honest criticisms that are respectful have been accepted, but those on the attack, especially with limited knowledge, are rejected by the participants and probably will lose posting privileges.

I started this board with the idea of a free wheeling discussion of the issues, much like the goal of the fornits site, but a few people got so far overboard, both pro and con, that we were degenerating into an insult driven negativity like all too often goes on over at fornits, so we instituted some restrictions that screen out the nastiness. I prefer to spend my time dealing with people that have some idea of what they are talking about, which inclination you have shown at times.

Lon Woodbury IECA
Certified Educational Planner


_____________________________________________
From: *********
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 9:21 PM
To: Lon Woodbury
Subject: RE: Strugglingteens.com Visitor: Consultant Services

i understand i cant post i will honor that. But can i inform the fornits board that you will not censor the post as long as there is no cursing? No mather what is said as long as there is no cursing? They bashed the people on fornits so they can expect to get it back! I will post there is NO cursing allowed or over the top bad behavior allowed. Let that one topic be immune from the usual censorship

-----Original Message-----
From: Lon Woodbury [mailto:lon@woodbury.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:38 PM
To: '******'
Subject: RE: Strugglingteens.com Visitor: Consultant Services


Hi *******:

Of course anybody can post there who follow the rules.  The basic rule is to
be respectful, things like respectfully disagree, etc. You got kicked off
the board some time ago for that reason, so one of the consequences is you
can't post on the board. However, there are some that post on fornits that
can still post on the ST board that have been able to disagree pleasantly.
I've been expecting them to show up on that thread sooner or later.

Lon Woodbury IECA
Certified Educational Planner

PS:  After looking at the profanity, vulgarity, vicious attacks and wild
unsubstantiated rumors common on fornits, you sure have balls to complain
about some place else being rude!

-----Original Message-----]
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 3:39 PM
To: http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... c;f=14;t=0
00055 if fornits is being discussed it is only fair you open at least this
topic up to people on fornits who want to post there UNSENSORED!!! not the
typical stugging teens censorship. Or close the topic as it is rude to talk
about people like in that topic and us not be allowed to respond back with
tastfull replys No cussing is the only rule.

[Anonymous]

i say we all go there and post and lite that board up and lets see him say no sensorship like what he said.

[Anonymous]

ill pass, that board is boring as fuck. why does everyone think they come here to troll? theyre own board sucks, and the only interesting thing they can find to talk about is fornits. maybe if they didnt censor program names which is the main reason all of us are here anyways (can you imagine if we couldnt post specific program information here? LOL) we'd post there and share our experiences. but they dont want that, they just want a club for programmie parents to pat each other on the back and convince each other they arent horrible parents. same thing as their local support group. and the most obvious reason is who wants to waste their time talking to a bunch of fundamentalist parents preach about their holier than though program... not I. much more fun here.