Early withdrawal

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-11 10:11:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"

I agree and that was my point a "Large group" doesn?t mean anything, its none comparative. I personally know a few people who went to and sent kids to RTC and they did fine. Does that mean all RTCs are good , not at all. But as I read some posts on this forum, if a person gets abused or dies or has a bad experience then all RTCs are no good and my response has been we cant make that conclusion based on a few occurrences. We need to compare it to other facilities, public schools, private schools etc. in order to make those assumptions. Absolutes have no place in forming conclusions, like all kids are bad, all parents are bad, all schools are bad etc. but there seems to be more of this thinking than not.

Time solving the individual problems would be better spent.

The problem is how hard it is to get the facts out of these places. Theyre too secretive and too insular. Theres no way to enforce anything and no way to see whats up as of yet, as everyone is told the children will lie and make up bad things to get out, and communication is cut off in the first place!



Youd need to put in people posing as kids, or hide wires, or bug the facilities to see whats going on IN them.



The only thing that would be feasable without the fucking CIA getting involved (as far as I know) would be finding a brave kid and putting him or her in, or seeing if edcons would put a good kid in the program (that is KNOWN to not have any issues) but not actually doing so, or simply talking to those who have been through the programs.



My point with how many people are saying bad things happened, and how over the years and spread out through all that distance in all those different programs, they're ALL saying the same thing. They're NOT lying if what they have to say all matches up!!! Thats very compelling evidence for suspicion.



The facilities are too closed up, isolated, and insular. Theres no way to find out whats going on IN them. The only way you can find out without breaking "THE RULES" is to talk to those who have been there, or resort to bugging, espionage, etc.



Surely you dont suggest I start up a program spy ring  :rofl:

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

"

Yes but you could make the same argument about anything,  A guy said he was humiliated by his college professor at Yale 30 years ago and a few guys say the same thing happened to him last year.  Should we all conclude that since this happened over a period of several decades we can fill in the gap and assume Yale is abusive?  I am sure there are people who have attended Yale that had a great experience and moved on to a successful life.  Who is right?  Ans: I depends on who we talk to, then we form an opinion

[Anonymous]

You are comparing Yale to programs? MY GOD- you obviously have never been to one.  :roll: Some of you protrolls are unbeliveable. Think before you type....

[Nihilanthic]

Yes but you could make the same argument about anything, A guy said he was humiliated by his college professor at Yale 30 years ago and a few guys say the same thing happened to him last year. Should we all conclude that since this happened over a period of several decades we can fill in the gap and assume Yale is abusive? I am sure there are people who have attended Yale that had a great experience and moved on to a successful life. Who is right? Ans: I depends on who we talk to, then we form an opinion

Uhhh... did we ever say that? No.

What DID we say? Lots and lots of people are all saying the same thing about the same places that dont know eachother, and have said it over the course of several years. Not ONE person ONE time!

Heeeeres your sign.

P.S. - Dont break the quote tags.

You should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own person and property, as long as you don't physically harm the person or property of a nonconsenting other.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0931580587/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Peter McWilliams - Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-11 10:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You are comparing Yale to programs? MY GOD- you obviously have never been to one.  :roll: Some of you protrolls are unbeliveable. Think before you type...."

Nobody compared Yale to Programs, we were talking about weighing opinions.

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-11 10:46:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"

Yes but you could make the same argument about anything, A guy said he was humiliated by his college professor at Yale 30 years ago and a few guys say the same thing happened to him last year. Should we all conclude that since this happened over a period of several decades we can fill in the gap and assume Yale is abusive? I am sure there are people who have attended Yale that had a great experience and moved on to a successful life. Who is right? Ans: I depends on who we talk to, then we form an opinion

Uhhh... did we ever say that? No.



What DID we say? Lots and lots of people are all saying the same thing about the same places that dont know eachother, and have said it over the course of several years. Not ONE person ONE time!



Heeeeres your sign.



P.S. - Dont break the quote tags.

You should be allowed to do whatever you want with your own person and property, as long as you don't physically harm the person or property of a nonconsenting other.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0931580587/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Peter McWilliams - Ain't Nobody's Business If I Do

"

So, okay , we have gone full circle.  We are back to talking about "many" people, or "lots" of people on both sides.

Thanks, I hate when I do that with the quote

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-11 10:11:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"

I agree and that was my point a "Large group" doesn?t mean anything, its none comparative. I personally know a few people who went to and sent kids to RTC and they did fine. Does that mean all RTCs are good , not at all. But as I read some posts on this forum, if a person gets abused or dies or has a bad experience then all RTCs are no good and my response has been we cant make that conclusion based on a few occurrences. We need to compare it to other facilities, public schools, private schools etc. in order to make those assumptions. Absolutes have no place in forming conclusions, like all kids are bad, all parents are bad, all schools are bad etc. but there seems to be more of this thinking than not.

Time solving the individual problems would be better spent.

The problem is how hard it is to get the facts out of these places. Theyre too secretive and too insular. Theres no way to enforce anything and no way to see whats up as of yet, as everyone is told the children will lie and make up bad things to get out, and communication is cut off in the first place!



Youd need to put in people posing as kids, or hide wires, or bug the facilities to see whats going on IN them.



The only thing that would be feasable without the fucking CIA getting involved (as far as I know) would be finding a brave kid and putting him or her in, or seeing if edcons would put a good kid in the program (that is KNOWN to not have any issues) but not actually doing so, or simply talking to those who have been through the programs.



My point with how many people are saying bad things happened, and how over the years and spread out through all that distance in all those different programs, they're ALL saying the same thing. They're NOT lying if what they have to say all matches up!!! Thats very compelling evidence for suspicion.



The facilities are too closed up, isolated, and insular. Theres no way to find out whats going on IN them. The only way you can find out without breaking "THE RULES" is to talk to those who have been there, or resort to bugging, espionage, etc.



Surely you dont suggest I start up a program spy ring  ::eek3::

[Anonymous]

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 150#136161

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-12 08:49:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-11 10:11:00, Nihilanthic wrote:


"

I agree and that was my point a "Large group" doesn?t mean anything, its none comparative. I personally know a few people who went to and sent kids to RTC and they did fine. Does that mean all RTCs are good , not at all. But as I read some posts on this forum, if a person gets abused or dies or has a bad experience then all RTCs are no good and my response has been we cant make that conclusion based on a few occurrences. We need to compare it to other facilities, public schools, private schools etc. in order to make those assumptions. Absolutes have no place in forming conclusions, like all kids are bad, all parents are bad, all schools are bad etc. but there seems to be more of this thinking than not.


Time solving the individual problems would be better spent.

The problem is how hard it is to get the facts out of these places. Theyre too secretive and too insular. Theres no way to enforce anything and no way to see whats up as of yet, as everyone is told the children will lie and make up bad things to get out, and communication is cut off in the first place!





Youd need to put in people posing as kids, or hide wires, or bug the facilities to see whats going on IN them.





The only thing that would be feasable without the fucking CIA getting involved (as far as I know) would be finding a brave kid and putting him or her in, or seeing if edcons would put a good kid in the program (that is KNOWN to not have any issues) but not actually doing so, or simply talking to those who have been through the programs.





My point with how many people are saying bad things happened, and how over the years and spread out through all that distance in all those different programs, they're ALL saying the same thing. They're NOT lying if what they have to say all matches up!!! Thats very compelling evidence for suspicion.





The facilities are too closed up, isolated, and insular. Theres no way to find out whats going on IN them. The only way you can find out without breaking "THE RULES" is to talk to those who have been there, or resort to bugging, espionage, etc.





Surely you dont suggest I start up a program spy ring  ::eek3::

"

Now... why did you have to go and perpetrate an ad hominem attack like that?

[Anonymous]

I am sure you have met many people who have done poorly and I buy that.  But short of a full study our opinions are based on who we have listened to and talked to.  My sample was "Large".  
 

Where can I see this sample? Where is the undisputable proof that the program works? It does'nt exist. The majority of the students I was in wwasp facilities with did relapse, some into darker and even heavier places than they were previous to their incarceration. Some have rebounded and straightened out while others continue on in their lifestyle.  There is no conclusive evidence of the wwasp ideologies being effective. I believe that of those who do leave the program and are " successful" are by products of maturing and growing up. This phenomenon occurred long before wwasp existed however they know that they can cash in on it and do so.  In fact if you do a long term survey I'm fairly certain that most 5yr plus graduates will not be supporters of the program, they will simply try to repress all memories of it. I can't speak for all grads but I have noticed this as a reoccurring trend amongst the other "students" I have come in contact with post-program.

 Others never get a chance to relapse though isn't that right proudgrad? See proudgrad went from one system of mind control where you do what you are told to another one after the program he immersed himself in religion so as to avoid ever thinking for himself. I guess it's just different strokes for different folks.

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-12 11:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

 I am sure you have met many people who have done poorly and I buy that.  But short of a full study our opinions are based on who we have listened to and talked to.  My sample was "Large".  

 



Where can I see this sample? Where is the undisputable proof that the program works? It does'nt exist. The majority of the students I was in wwasp facilities with did relapse, some into darker and even heavier places than they were previous to their incarceration. Some have rebounded and straightened out while others continue on in their lifestyle.  There is no conclusive evidence of the wwasp ideologies being effective. I believe that of those who do leave the program and are " successful" are by products of maturing and growing up. This phenomenon occurred long before wwasp existed however they know that they can cash in on it and do so.  In fact if you do a long term survey I'm fairly certain that most 5yr plus graduates will not be supporters of the program, they will simply try to repress all memories of it. I can't speak for all grads but I have noticed this as a reoccurring trend amongst the other "students" I have come in contact with post-program.



 Others never get a chance to relapse though isn't that right proudgrad? See proudgrad went from one system of mind control where you do what you are told to another one after the program he immersed himself in religion so as to avoid ever thinking for himself. I guess it's just different strokes for different folks."

I cant speak to WWASP programs, but I know of many graduates and parents who did well in the programs they went to.  Not proclaiming all did well or all faired poorly.  As you stated and heared before as some of these graduates reach the 5 year mark, may start to realize the programs helped them more than they originally thought.  I dont know this to be true, about the 5 year thing, but I heard it somewhere here.  So I guess what we concluded is there is no undisputed proof that all kids do poorly or all kids do well.

[Anonymous]

My I.Q. is only 132 I suck!

[TheWho]

132 isnt that low, the vast majority is below you, plus it is only a measurement of you potential.  Most highly successful people have slightly higher I.Q.s than the rest.  The truly brilliant people are in research, mental institutions, or making $6/ hour because they can deal with other people.
Once you hit your 20's the I.Q. means nothing, one must start performing and that is what you are measured on for the rest of your life, so smile, you have a good start.

[TheWho]

Most companies would rather hire a kid who busted his butt studying for 4 years trying to maintain a B average than a straight A student who hardly studied.  The B student will work twice as hard, come up with more ideas and will not be as likely to cave in when things go wrong because he has been living with obsticles his whole life, where The Straight A student who hardly studied may never have been challenged and may cave easily.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-11 10:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You are comparing Yale to programs? MY GOD- you obviously have never been to one.  :roll: Some of you protrolls are unbeliveable. Think before you type...."

No, Yale is where some kids go after they graduate the programs. Then there's Stanford, Georgetown, Gonzaga . . .

[Anonymous]

No, Yale is where some kids go after they graduate the programs.

Got to finish polishing off that trophy kid, eh?! Freak.