Okay lets back up, You cant plead your case based on a "Large Group of People" You need a definitive number. If you say "Large Group" one guy may say "Uhm, I think he means 12 million" the guy sitting next to him may think "Uhm, probably talking about more than 5 people, because a small group at work is considered 4 people". That is a big discrepancy right there and you havent even started talking yet! So you see empirical data doesnt work here and isnt typically accepted.
I personally know many people who have benefited from some of the programs, they work it is a fact. I am sure you have met many people who have done poorly and I buy that. But short of a full study our opinions are based on who we have listened to and talked to. My sample was "Large".
First: What a program does depends on what the child needs. Some Children need to be removed from their home environment so they can grow, others need a safe place to advance their academics, others need to be in a place where they can grow with their peers, on and on.
Your second question is "How is this done?" Depends on the model, each school works to a different model. Some use behavior mod as a primary, others isolation from drugs or bad habits, others use wilderness as a piece to give the child a sense accomplishment, some are trained in rescue operations, but personally I think they work because they are removed from an unhealthy pattern and placed in a place where they can be who they want to be.
Just as an added note: I don?t see why you see a need to wear your I.Q. on your lapel. I wouldn?t mention this on a job interview, it can be a red flag. Just a little advice.
Ok, again, the IQ thing was because of the implication that Im uneducated or unintelligent. Why do YOU continue to bring that up, and then say Im the one wearing it on my lapel?
Ok, all that nonsense about a large group vs a random group... made no sense. You need a large population to work with, if its too small it might throw the numbers off. I do get your point about randomly selected people (a double blind would be ideal as well) but my point stands.
Ive talked to a LARGE group of people myself. There is no definitive study done on the programs themselves. Also, something that works via LGATs will definitely INFLUENCE those people who participate in them. Asking someone whose brainwashed isnt a good way to get a straight answer. There has to be a scientific study done, and it has to somehow get rid of the influence of LGATs and the other psychological nonsense the children and parents have placed upon them.
Now, you talk about what they do depends on the child. Fair enough, but IVe yet to get a straight answer of that from the parent of a child currently in a program. Should they not know that?
Also, HOW do they advance academics, or "grow" out of the "home environment", or "grow with their peers"? As far as I am aware MANY programs have the children teach themselves out of a book, and RE TAKE tests until they score at least a B.
Furthemore, about "how its done", again, fair that it should depend on the model, but Ive asked people who should know specifics and they werent able to give me a definitive answer.
What is "Behavior mod"?
Isolation form drugs or "Bad habits" seems straightforward, as you cant go drink or smoke up in a program, but how do you isolate a child from their 'had babits'?
Also, "using wilderness to give the child a sense of accomplishment" - you mean setting up circumstances the child has no choice but to endure and then say "hey see, you could do it!" at the end? Making them do shit and then saying YOU DID IT isnt really therapy. So, suffering and hardship, and if they survive they accomplished? Thats what "Bratcamp" sure looked like - and as a psychological carrier wave to break them down "breakthough :roll:".
Also, training in rescue operations? HOW is that therapy? More "sense of accomplishment" schtick? Or is it just a variant of the wilderness bullshit except they have to go rescue someone so the emotions run even higher for more regression?
personally I think they work because they are removed from an unhealthy pattern and placed in a place where they can be who they want to be.
Uh, everyone Ive spoken to said they cant be who they want to be, they have to do as they are told. If these places were warm embraces where they were free to develop, grow, and all the other bullshit happy-feel-good warm-fuzzy verbs and be free of worry, stress, and fear I wouldnt be having this arguement with you right now.
Theyre coersive, demand total obedience, and punish serverely. How are they free to do anything?
So yeah, you managed to clarify the question but you havent begun to answer. However, bratcamp + the testimony of people who have been through wilderness camps have given me an idea of what the "wilderness" experience is like. Physical stress that creates psychological stress, leading to a regression. HMMM. Whats that sound like
Oh, yeah, bootcamp!
It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
