My son is currently at Aspen Ranch

[Covergaard]

I can understand the drug issue, but not the anger issue.

We do not have laws about sexual harassment etc. and girls are expected to slap an offender in the face if he does not listen to a message. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_har ... isdictions

That difference in our cultures meant catastrophe for a fellow countrywoman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Andersen She had to undergo a rough and unnessesary treatment, that properly will destroy her life on long term and make it impossible to socialise in the Danish society. It is a punishment that did not suit the claimed crime and correspond to being ordered to wear a bandage when the leg is not broken.

In Denmark no court would address an anger issue. If that anger issue results in crime, its jail time. But we would never try to order someone to alter their behavior. And there is a very good reason for doing so, because when can you stop altering people personalities and maintain democracy.

And your statement only strengthen my position: A program should only be used as a result of a court order. No child should be sent to a program without a sentence. 2% in the wrong place is 2% whose life is at danger.

I am glad that the torment did turn out good for you but remember that they did not save your life. It is up to you.

[Deborah]

Perhaps it's time for all states to adopt regs similar to Utah's, specifically for TBSs. It would not allow violent kids in TBSs. They'd have to go to RTCs. Keep in mind a program owner and NATSAP helped create these regs.

i. A therapeutic [boarding] school shall not admit or provide services to an individual who:

A. has a recent history (within the past 2 years) of attempting suicide or making serious self-harm gestures (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

B. has a psychosis, schizophrenia, severe depression, mental retardation, or a severe mental illness (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

C. is violent, highly combative, or physically or sexually aggressive,

D. presents substantial security risks,

E. requires medical detoxification,

F. lacks the ability to engage in a rational decision-making process or exhibits severely impaired judgment, or

G. has a history of repeated runaway attempts or incidents;

ii. A therapeutic school shall expel a client who exhibits high risk behavior or conditions, including but not limited to a client who:

A. attempts suicide or makes serious self-harm gestures (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

B. has a psychosis, schizophrenia, severe depression, mental retardation, or a severe mental illness (requiring medical or therapeutic treatment),

C. is violent, highly combative, or physically or sexually aggressive,

D. presents substantial security risks,

E. requires medical detoxification,

F. lacks the ability to engage in a rational decision-making process or exhibits severely impaired judgment,

G. runs away or attempts to runaway more than two times,

H. uses or attempts to use illegal substances (including but not limited to drugs or alcohol) more than two times, or

I. exhibits any other behavioral or emotional conditions that require more intense supervision and treatment than that permitted in a therapeutic school;
~~

[Anonymous]

I'm the one with the daughter at Aspen.  Sorry for not following up more, I lost the link to this place.

The Milk Gargler's Bullshit sign is merely troll behavior.

Our daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents.   She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.

I almost (well, actually did) cry.  She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there.  Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD.  Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.

She's blowing thorough her high school studies, and to ensure it's "real" school her home district did some testing - she was beyond her normal Junior-year level.  I did some poking around with colleges, and most consider Aspen Ranch as a private school with high expectations, and it looks good on college applications.

Most interestingly, while she really want to be home to see her "normal" friends she LIKES it there.  It's a beautiful place, and she's fallen head-over-heels in love with the horses.  She's taking training classes so when she comes back she can work part-time at a stable (we have a connection through our oldest son's girlfriend, luckily), train and teach riding, and go to either a junior college of local State University.

She has goals, she's sober, she has finally opened up to others about her problems, and Aspen HAS SAVED HER LIFE.  She would be DEAD if we had not somehow gotten her there.

Put THAT in your bullshit meter and choke on it.

Yes, they have staff and director changes.  The whole county has 2700 people in it, and employees often find what they thought would be an idyllic lifestyle is too limiting.  Others just have not worked out, and they do have a limited amount of people looking to work in a remote area...plus their requirements are apparently pretty high for teachers AND staff, as except for a few marginally strict people everyone is caring, kind, and all, based on my observations, are well qualified.

I can't adress other places like Provo, Aspen Acheivement,  Swift River etc. - but I can tell you I sat in a 6-month review meeting yesterday with the state (where we live) department of mental health, our school district, my wife and I, and 6 Aspen education and therapeutic staff on the phone and when it was over our district folks and the state (who share much of the cost) were extremely happy about her progress and the overall attitude and intelligence of the Ranch people.  They agreed that it saved her life, is just tremendous, and ar working already with Aspen staff for continuing education and aftercare plans.

Since our daughter went there two other girls from the district have  also started there based on our daughter's success, and talking to them while I was there they had the same outlook as our daughter - it's not "fun" being sent away, but after the initial resentment is gone they all realize it's what they needed, are enjoying the accellerated and personal-attention school system, the equine therapy (which I have not spoken enough about - the equine therapists are truly some of the most amazing, caring, loving, and perceptive humans I've ever met) is not so much an "activity" as REAL therapy, and also have goals and dreams now.

I will continue to support Aspen Ranch somehow after our daughter graduates from the program, even though we will never be allowed to visit again for privacy reasons.  But we will remain in contact with people.   FWIW one of the part-time residential staffers left to simply work less hours and is working in a local restaurant owned by family.  She specifically asked to be allowed to come to our daughter's graduation and speak (which has been approved); she sat with us at breakfast and was continuing her care even though she doesn't even work there any longer.  THAT'S the type of people that work at Aspen Ranch.

So post all the meaningless, no-backup BS signs you want.  But I will be happy to answer any REAL questions at silverface@gmail.com.

Happy Holidays to all

[Anonymous]

Hmm, it's an old thread.. the actual person with a daughter at ASR... let me see if I can find it...

I thought is seemed like punishment for her problems.  The day we came home she got back on cocaine.

I'm sorry if I inadvertently offended... ah, wait, never mind. You're not her, you're that troll. And with a new song, too.

So do they pay you by the word for this, or what?

[Nihilanthic]

I'm the one with the daughter at Aspen.  Sorry for not following up more, I lost the link to this place.

The Milk Gargler's Bullshit sign is merely troll behavior.

Our daughter has now ben at Aspen for 7 months and has made the "Greenhorn" level, which allows her to go on overnight visits inside Utah with parents.   She had just made it when I recently visited, so she was limited to 12 hour visits for the first round.

I almost (well, actually did) cry.  She was back to her giggling, silly, snowball throwing, 16-year old self, rather than the withdrawn, drug-hazed, psychotic person who we first enrolled there.  Like many, she was a victim of (non-family) abuse and trauma, with depression and PTSD.  Her therapist is absolutely wonderful and treats her with respect and friendship, as does the residential staff.

She's blowing thorough her high school studies, and to ensure it's "real" school her home district did some testing - she was beyond her normal Junior-year level.  I did some poking around with colleges, and most consider Aspen Ranch as a private school with high expectations, and it looks good on college applications.

Most interestingly, while she really want to be home to see her "normal" friends she LIKES it there.  It's a beautiful place, and she's fallen head-over-heels in love with the horses.  She's taking training classes so when she comes back she can work part-time at a stable (we have a connection through our oldest son's girlfriend, luckily), train and teach riding, and go to either a junior college of local State University.

She has goals, she's sober, she has finally opened up to others about her problems, and Aspen HAS SAVED HER LIFE.  She would be DEAD if we had not somehow gotten her there.

Put THAT in your bullshit meter and choke on it.

Yes, they have staff and director changes.  The whole county has 2700 people in it, and employees often find what they thought would be an idyllic lifestyle is too limiting.  Others just have not worked out, and they do have a limited amount of people looking to work in a remote area...plus their requirements are apparently pretty high for teachers AND staff, as except for a few marginally strict people everyone is caring, kind, and all, based on my observations, are well qualified.

I can't adress other places like Provo, Aspen Acheivement,  Swift River etc. - but I can tell you I sat in a 6-month review meeting yesterday with the state (where we live) department of mental health, our school district, my wife and I, and 6 Aspen education and therapeutic staff on the phone and when it was over our district folks and the state (who share much of the cost) were extremely happy about her progress and the overall attitude and intelligence of the Ranch people.  They agreed that it saved her life, is just tremendous, and ar working already with Aspen staff for continuing education and aftercare plans.

Since our daughter went there two other girls from the district have  also started there based on our daughter's success, and talking to them while I was there they had the same outlook as our daughter - it's not "fun" being sent away, but after the initial resentment is gone they all realize it's what they needed, are enjoying the accellerated and personal-attention school system, the equine therapy (which I have not spoken enough about - the equine therapists are truly some of the most amazing, caring, loving, and perceptive humans I've ever met) is not so much an "activity" as REAL therapy, and also have goals and dreams now.

I will continue to support Aspen Ranch somehow after our daughter graduates from the program, even though we will never be allowed to visit again for privacy reasons.  But we will remain in contact with people.   FWIW one of the part-time residential staffers left to simply work less hours and is working in a local restaurant owned by family.  She specifically asked to be allowed to come to our daughter's graduation and speak (which has been approved); she sat with us at breakfast and was continuing her care even though she doesn't even work there any longer.  THAT'S the type of people that work at Aspen Ranch.

So post all the meaningless, no-backup BS signs you want.  But I will be happy to answer any REAL questions at silverface@gmail.com.

Happy Holidays to all

Hey, uh, you got any... verification of what it is you say?

Yanno, something to demonstrate that you're not just lying through your teeth?  :wink:

[Anonymous]

You guys are a riot.  someone posts a real experience and all you do is ridicule and insult, yet you have nothing to say regarding personal experience.

I stay at the Chuckwagon in Torrey or the Snuggle Inn in Loa.  The Snuggle Inn has a computer in the lobby and a wireless network-there are a couple of kid's bikes and a scooter in the driveway; the Chuckwagon also has wireless, and free coffee for guests in the gift shop/bakery.   The Ranch had frosted cinnamon rolls at breakfast last Sunday.  If you walk into the Loa Texaco station, the racks of snacks are directly in front of you and the coffee to the left, around the main counter.  By the way, it snowed a bit on Friday midday on the drive from Salt Lake City to Loa - down 15 to 50, down main St. in Aurora and on to highway 24.

Drove to Cedar City on Saturday - they were having a parade and the main drag was blocked off.

that'll have to do for now.

Now - what can you BS-claimers tell ME to prove that you have any clue about the ranch, the town....or anything else?

I'm offering real advice and a contact - what about you?

[Covergaard]

Even if there is no wall at the ranch, she can not leave the ranch of her own free will and that defines the place as a kind of prison.

A prison is a place where people which have broken the law are ordered to stay by the courtsystem.

I just totally lack understanding of why anyone wants to imprison once own child.

We only do have very few boarding schools in Denmark and none of them are treatment centres. Those we have are for people which have acknowledged their own limitations as parents. They have informed the local athorities of their lack or the athorities has intervened in their own, so the placement on a boarding school is done under supervision of the athorities, so no child is lost in the proces.

As a parent I know that the world in dangerous. Some parents teach their child of dangers, others tries to remove them. They are in Denmark called curling parents, because the sweap dangers away in front of the child like it is done in front the stone in curling.

Those children are at risk when they grow up and the parents are no longer present. Locking a child up is actually the most extreme a curling parent can do. I don't question your love for your child, but I fear the day when she is adult and can leave your home for good.

[Nihilanthic]

You guys are a riot.  someone posts a real experience and all you do is ridicule and insult, yet you have nothing to say regarding personal experience.

I stay at the Chuckwagon in Torrey or the Snuggle Inn in Loa.  The Snuggle Inn has a computer in the lobby and a wireless network-there are a couple of kid's bikes and a scooter in the driveway; the Chuckwagon also has wireless, and free coffee for guests in the gift shop/bakery.   The Ranch had frosted cinnamon rolls at breakfast last Sunday.  If you walk into the Loa Texaco station, the racks of snacks are directly in front of you and the coffee to the left, around the main counter.  By the way, it snowed a bit on Friday midday on the drive from Salt Lake City to Loa - down 15 to 50, down main St. in Aurora and on to highway 24.

Drove to Cedar City on Saturday - they were having a parade and the main drag was blocked off.

that'll have to do for now.

Now - what can you BS-claimers tell ME to prove that you have any clue about the ranch, the town....or anything else?

I'm offering real advice and a contact - what about you?

That's got nothing to do with the whole "isolation/brainwashing" part of the program or the "they cant leave" part of the program, aka the abusive non-consentual parts we care about?

Wow, you know the area. Congrats. Many people never bother to see where their children are located!

[Deborah]

As a parent I know that the world in dangerous. Some parents teach their child of dangers, others tries to remove them. They are in Denmark called curling parents, because the sweap dangers away in front of the child like it is done in front the stone in curling.

 :rofl: Love that analogy!!
Lots of curlers in America. Beginning from birth, and to the point that it interferes with the child physical, social, and emotional development.  
Repairing the damage these parents, unawarely, cause is good for segments of the economy- medical, mental health, pharmaceutical, rehabs, teen warehouses, and/or eventually prisons; originally called penitentiaries- designed to inspire penitence in the hearts of convicts.

Just heard a fascinating expose on NPR about the first penitentiary- Eastern State, which is now a Museum!!
http://www.easternstate.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_State_Penitentiary
The Penitentiary was intended not simply to punish, but to move the criminal toward spiritual reflection and change. The method was a Quaker-inspired system of isolation from other prisoners, with labor. The early system was strict. To prevent distraction, knowledge of the building, and even mild interaction with guards, inmates were hooded whenever they were outside their cells.
Eastern State was viewed as a progressive reform (Enlightenment Era)in that it eliminated many of the excesses of physical punishment in colonial America. Despite this, it was widely believed (then and now) to have caused significant mental illness among its prisoners due to its solitary confinement.

[Anonymous]

Curling?  Donuts?

You people are fools.

It's not a matter of "locking up" kids.  It's a matter of them getting well.

Our daughter knew she was in a bad situation, and left home because she didn't want to burden us.  She also sees this whole thing as a chance to survive and thrive - without it she would have been dead.  Like many others, she's there because of problems related to non-familial abuse.  In her case, an abdction and things I'd rather not think about.  It's wiped her out mentally.  She's in a solid therapeutic environment, has new goals....and I don't know where any of you get the "locked up" idea from, because they soon rise in levels and are alllowed extended time off-campus, much of it relatively unsupervised - because they have grown and earned it.

But to return to the important point...without the Ranch she'd be dead.  She knows this and is thankful for it.  She's not there as punishment.

You idiots have NO idea what you are even talking about - your criticizing a place and a program you are unfamiliar with, simply because you make incorrect assumptions.  I thought initially this was a semi-support forum.  Now I see what it is - a haven for people who know nothing and rabble rousers, plus people from foreign countries who know even LESS.  Curling?  Oh, please - spare me.

And BTW - I'm a guy, not "ma'am".

This is a simple case of you all taking the stance "my mind is made up - don't confuse me with the facts".

My daughter was horribly abused and traumatized, and is now recovering and growing.  I guess you all would just prefer she had died.  None of your logic works, you use BS meters in place of discussion, you've never been there - I can't believe how uncaring you all are - because you have NO idea of any of the REAL situations involved.

Goodbye.

[Anonymous]

[troll7]

[Nihilanthic]

[troll7]

Isn't "survive and thrive" so obvious it should be dropped a few points?

[Covergaard]

Curling?  Donuts?

You people are fools.

It's not a matter of "locking up" kids.  It's a matter of them getting well.

Our daughter knew she was in a bad situation, and left home because she didn't want to burden us.  She also sees this whole thing as a chance to survive and thrive - without it she would have been dead.  Like many others, she's there because of problems related to non-familial abuse.  In her case, an abdction and things I'd rather not think about.  It's wiped her out mentally.  She's in a solid therapeutic environment, has new goals....and I don't know where any of you get the "locked up" idea from, because they soon rise in levels and are alllowed extended time off-campus, much of it relatively unsupervised - because they have grown and earned it.

But to return to the important point...without the Ranch she'd be dead.  She knows this and is thankful for it.  She's not there as punishment.

You idiots have NO idea what you are even talking about - your criticizing a place and a program you are unfamiliar with, simply because you make incorrect assumptions.  I thought initially this was a semi-support forum.  Now I see what it is - a haven for people who know nothing and rabble rousers, plus people from foreign countries who know even LESS.  Curling?  Oh, please - spare me.

And BTW - I'm a guy, not "ma'am".

This is a simple case of you all taking the stance "my mind is made up - don't confuse me with the facts".

My daughter was horribly abused and traumatized, and is now recovering and growing.  I guess you all would just prefer she had died.  None of your logic works, you use BS meters in place of discussion, you've never been there - I can't believe how uncaring you all are - because you have NO idea of any of the REAL situations involved.

Goodbye.

Back when I started to post in here, it surprised me who different a country that we stands shoulder to shoulder with in the fight against terrorism, are.

Do you think, that we don't have drugs, drug-rape, crimes, DUI, even murder in my country too?

Of course we do.

But we don't lock people up that needs help. We help them at their homes instead. It is costly for our society, I agree to that. Every puplic school has backup system and our society also buys parents off their normal work for a period so they can be at school watching over their child so troubled children can avoid medication. It is called family classes.

A lot of efforts are done in order to prevent children from being removed from their homes. Some families are even ordered to move into observation homes, so their level of communication and emotional life can observed, analyzed and improved.

Yet, in the end some children ends up being removed from their homes. It is sad, but i some cases a child is better off at another place than the home. However, it is not done by a decision by the parents alone. It is done by members of the local town council based on reports from their employees and if the parents wants to appeal, we have a court system for that.

Removing a child from its home is a serious decision and it will in most cases only result in the second best outcome.

I am glad I am living in a place where a placement outside the home is done with a goal of achieveing the maximum result at shortest time possible because the employees at our facilities has a responsibility against our taxpayers too. They are not in business for the money and they are watched very carefully.

Also any problem is only then solved when the child or as it is the case with my lastest encounter with our psychiatric system - an adult familymember (depression) - when the person in question are able to leave the facility and exist at home without the shield of the lockup facility.

The lockup functions two ways. It also prevent the patient from the dangers of the outside world and can in fact be a sleep pillow so the condition of the patient does not improve. A cure can be called a cure or life-saver in the second the patient is back home and can function as before the time of lockup. Not a second before!

And it is scary to return home. I have spent the last two weeks talking to my familymember and repeatly asked her to slow her pace down and look out for her self. There have been crisis, but we are on the track for better.

No we don't wish your daughter dead. We just want to point out, that she is not cured or saved yet. The treatment starts for real, when she return home. The treatment is just delayed at the ranch.

[Nihilanthic]

Programs dont treat or fix anything, they make people act a certain way through breakdowns and torement of various types.

Even if it WAS therapy, 'thriving' (UGH) in an institution has nothing to do with real life!

I'm glad you brought that up, covergaard, but the bottom line is programs don't even give therapy at all, anyway.

[Anonymous]

"our society also buys parents off their normal work for a period so they can be at school watching over their child"

That's a wonderful system.  However, it's completely irrelevant here as we do not have that option, unfortunately.

I can speak pretty well for my child - I just spent another 5 days with her, mostly off-campus on a "Utah visit".  She could say whatever she wanted, go shopping, go to movies...and her main topic was how she wants to get back home, but would never have been able to without the Ranch.  We spent a couple hours on the computer looking at horse boarding, since she's planning on buying a horse when she leaves (one of the ranch equine therapists came in for several hours on an off-day just so we could ride with our daughter).

She's in an accelerated high school program that's (check it out yourself) highly rated by public and private colleges, ranking with high-dollar prep schools...and is again pulling almost straight-A's.  One residential staff person - one of the supposedly "abusive" people if you look at other sites - asked us to come by her new job to say hi - and she wants to come to our daughter's graduation.  Another staff person brought some puppies to the team for them to play with for a couple days; another bought a Christmas tree and decorations, and took the whole team out for dinner and to a non-denominational church Christmas eve.

Sure, there are a couple staff people she doesn't like, but that's life.  All her teachers she adores, and she's getting great reports.  Her home district did some testing and found her to be far above her "normal" level - about a grade ahead when she SHOULD be a grade behind because of her trauma and troubles.

So play with your BS meters and other ignorant crap all you want - it's not a prison, it's not abusive, and it's saved at least ONE life for sure.  We have parents with problems coming to us, and we recommend they check it out along with other programs, as the "ranch" might not be a good fit for some kids.  But we do not hesitate to recommend it, or even to talk to the other kids about it and answer question straight-up.

We are lucky to have her there under a state/school district sponsored program...we could never afford it out-of-pocket, but if I HAD to, I'd find a way...and when she graduates, I willl  find some way to support it afterwards - you have NO idea what it means to a parent when you watch your daughter go from a broken shell to a growing teenager.  She has a long way to go yet, but knows it and is handling it fine.  The telling comment to me was "I like it here - I don't want to LIVE here forever - but I like it."  That and the fact she's alive.

It certainly would be nice if we had programs as they apparently do in some countries where parents can take time off and work with their kids in need, but I'm not sure that's enough in the therapeutic sense - parents are NOT therapists...we sure aren't.

Anyway, we're thankful and so is she.  And in all the "meters" and sarcastic "donut" lines, I haven't read a single fact...or educated, knowledgable opinion...that is counter to anything I've related.

So if you have hard facts...or even an intelligent opinion...I'd be willing to listen and discuss it.  But the bullshit meters and other 8th-grade crap just makes the naysayers look exceedingly incapable of expressing anything intelligent.  You think anyone with an ounce of brains forms an opinion about a program on the basis of a graphic swiped from another site?

I'm not saying to take everything I say as gospel...but I AM giving some examples and opinions with actual content.

And I wonder how many of the goofballs are even parents?  Or kids who have been through a program?

My guess?  Zero.

I respect the European poster who lives with a different system.. That at least has some basis in reality.  But the hit-and-run trolls have said nothing at all so far.