Spring Creek Lodge

[Aunt Shelly]

In addendum to my earlier post, there are also people that work there that genuinely want to help the kids sent there.  Not everyone there is in it for the money.  The highups are the ones getting rich.  Also, from what Alex said about 80% of the kids there are from California.

[Antigen]

On 2006-03-25 10:13:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:

"Sorry I misunderstood.  Are you saying the lies are coming from the schools?  

Yeah. Some of them. A lot of people affiliated with WWASP and other industry members read these forums. And a fair many of the edcons and others post pretty frequently too.

This particular thread was, for obvious reasons, of great interest to them for awhile. And so one or more of these folks dropped in and did their usual song and dance, talking about Alex asif they knew all about him. I'd have to dig those out, but it's just the sort of comment that's apt to set off an angry response and a cascade effect ensues. So you got the brunt of a lot of that from ppl who may have assumed you said it or one of your family, not some total stranger who's probably never laid eyes on any of you.

This is one definition of the term 'trolling'. Just don't anybody fall for it.

The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.


--Thomas Sowell

[Antigen]

On 2006-03-25 14:25:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:

"In addendum to my earlier post, there are also people that work there that genuinely want to help the kids sent there.  Not everyone there is in it for the money.  The highups are the ones getting rich.  Also, from what Alex said about 80% of the kids there are from California."

Well, yeah. And even the higher ups who are getting incredibly wealthy probably believe that they're doing the right thing. That's what makes them so dangerous and so convincing. This is how witch hunts and inquisitions gain and keep momentum.

At the end of the day, though, the very basic methods they use are harmful and ineffective. No amount of good intentions will ever make that any better. The only thing I know of to remedy this is education and dialog on the issue. Whenever that happens, it makes the true believers very uncomfortable and, well, they act like this.

If life were fair, Dan Quayle would be making a living asking 'Do you want fries with that?'
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6302294274/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>John Cleese

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-25 14:25:00, Aunt Shelly wrote:

"In addendum to my earlier post, there are also people that work there that genuinely want to help the kids sent there.  Not everyone there is in it for the money.  The highups are the ones getting rich.  Also, from what Alex said about 80% of the kids there are from California."

Trust me when I say that I, for one, wasn't working there for the money.  If you knew what they paid you'd know that was a definite...lol.

[Antigen]

Ah, yeah, you got took, friend. Don't feel too badly, though, so did all of our parents and, to one degree or another, each of us.

What matters is what you do with it from here.

Religion is comparable to a childhood neurosis.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist

[CCM girl 1989]

[/quote]
Trust me when I say that I, for one, wasn't working there for the money.  If you knew what they paid you'd know that was a definite...lol."
[/quote]

Maybe you weren't there for the money. But in the middle of goddamned nowhere what else are your options........chopping down trees? So, whatever....it was probably an easier alternative for you. What did you think it would pay twice as much because the head honchos are raking it in? NOT!!!!

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-28 10:43:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:

Trust me when I say that I, for one, wasn't working there for the money.  If you knew what they paid you'd know that was a definite...lol."

Maybe you weren't there for the money. But in the middle of goddamned nowhere what else are your options........chopping down trees? So, whatever....it was probably an easier alternative for you. What did you think it would pay twice as much because the head honchos are raking it in? NOT!!!!"

When I went to work out there I went with the intentions of maybe doing some good, but after over a year I couldn't stand being there anymore.  It had nothing to do with money.  I didn't need to work, but I wanted to.  I had plenty of other options, so maybe you should just cut the attitude.  I wasn't standing up for the program at all I was just pointing out that it's funny to say someone was there for the money when they obviously don't pay well.  To some this may be really good money, but where I come from it's not.

I left because I didn't agree with a lot that was going on and after I started reading a lot more about WWASP I knew it wasn't the place I wanted to work.  Yeah a lot of people in this town work there because it's the only "semi-decent" paying job around...I just didn't happen to be one of them.  It wasn't an easy alternative for me.  I had to be away from my son for shifts of 48 and 72 hours straight.  That was another reason I left, so please don't pretend to know anything about my life just because I made the mistake of working for a WWASP organization.

Let me guess, you've never made the mistake of taking a job then finding out it was the wrong move???  Yeah, right.[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-28 17:59 ]

[Anonymous]

If it took you a year to figure out that WWASPs methods are abusive, you really must be a Montana inbred.  One glance at the Hobbit pictures and the rest of the world feels their stomach churn with disgust at the thought of what children inside must have felt.  No wonder CCM girl is calling you out.  You saw abuses and kept that job for an entire year until the long shifts finally wore on you.  Shame on you.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-28 16:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If it took you a year to figure out that WWASPs methods are abusive, you really must be a Montana inbred.  One glance at the Hobbit pictures and the rest of the world feels their stomach churn with disgust at the thought of what children inside must have felt.  No wonder CCM girl is calling you out.  You saw abuses and kept that job for an entire year until the long shifts finally wore on you.  Shame on you."

Of course that's the whole point, isn't it? The "hobbit" pictures create such a great opportunity for dramatics, but the reality is that there isn't anything abusive going on. The photos posted are probably around seven or eight years old, and I doubt that anyone who works at SCL would even recognize them. (BTW, why does anyone call it that? Aren't hobbit homes warm and inviting?)

SCL may use an approach you don't agree with, but abuse is an entirely different thing, and this person doesn't claim that's what s/he saw. You've never been there, and neither has CCM girl, but you're both posing as authorities on the whole thing. Shame on YOU.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-28 16:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"If it took you a year to figure out that WWASPs methods are abusive, you really must be a Montana inbred.  One glance at the Hobbit pictures and the rest of the world feels their stomach churn with disgust at the thought of what children inside must have felt.  No wonder CCM girl is calling you out.  You saw abuses and kept that job for an entire year until the long shifts finally wore on you.  Shame on you."

God, you people are unbelievable!  I never said I was proWWASP or anything like that, in fact, I feel just the opposite.  I was just making a comment about the poor wages there and then I get comments like I must be a "Montana inbred"?  Come on, that was totally uncalled for.

I stayed there because I thought maybe if there were enough people that felt like me( and there are people working there that do), maybe we could do something to help instead of just posting our dislike of the system on here.  I tried to get changes made by keeping records and hounding the Administration to make changes.  At least I was out there trying to make a difference instead of just talking about it and coming on here and making fun of people.

I loved the kids that were there.  I loved being there and if I left then who knows what type of person would take my place.  Would you rather I had quit and just sat at my computer making "I hate WWASP" posts?  It didn't take me a year to see that it was abusive.  I stayed longer to try to do something positive.

Unfortunately, or maybe it's fortunately, I never saw anyone being physically abused. That doesn't mean it did or didn't happen, it only means "I" never saw it. I even talked to some of the kids I worked closely with and none of them ever said anything about being abused.  They complained about the food and such, but then what teenager doesn't complain about food? In case you haven't heard the Hobbitt no longer exists. Get your facts straight before you go mouthing off.  I have been working with CPS and unfortunately I can't go into what was reported because, as you know, they do troll this site and I don't want to cause trouble for other people that are still there and still working with CPS.  

There is no "shame" in what I did.  I started working out there with the desire to help these kids.  I had no idea what was actually going on until I had been there a while and started asking a lot of questions.  I had never heard of this website or WWASP until I went to work out there.  I just thought it was a school for troubled kids and that's the area I wanted to work in.  After hooking up with some other people out there that told me about this site I decided to check it out, and I'm glad I did.  The only thing I do regret is wasting time to explain myself to someone that doesn't know anything about me or my reasons for what I did.  

Let me ask you when the last time you actually did something to put a stop to these programs besides just mouthing off about nothing?

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-28 17:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-03-28 16:41:00, Anonymous wrote:


"If it took you a year to figure out that WWASPs methods are abusive, you really must be a Montana inbred.  One glance at the Hobbit pictures and the rest of the world feels their stomach churn with disgust at the thought of what children inside must have felt.  No wonder CCM girl is calling you out.  You saw abuses and kept that job for an entire year until the long shifts finally wore on you.  Shame on you."

Of course that's the whole point, isn't it? The "hobbit" pictures create such a great opportunity for dramatics, but the reality is that there isn't anything abusive going on. The photos posted are probably around seven or eight years old, and I doubt that anyone who works at SCL would even recognize them. (BTW, why does anyone call it that? Aren't hobbit homes warm and inviting?)



SCL may use an approach you don't agree with, but abuse is an entirely different thing, and this person doesn't claim that's what s/he saw. You've never been there, and neither has CCM girl, but you're both posing as authorities on the whole thing. Shame on YOU."

Agreed!  Until you've even gone there and checked it out for yourself, keep your mouth shut about things you don't know are true or not.  All you have to go by is hearsay

[Antigen]

Some years ago, from his remote jungle hideout, Jim Jones wrote:



Agreed!  Until you've even gone there and checked it out for yourself, keep your mouth shut about things you don't know are true or not.  All you have to go by is hearsay"

Government operates best when it allows all messengers to offer their views, allowing the American people to decide which take root and which wither away.
--Harold Furchtgott-Roth, member of the Federal Communications Commission

[Anonymous]

On 2006-03-28 17:37:00, Eudora wrote:

"

Some years ago, from his remote jungle hideout, Jim Jones wrote:

Agreed!  Until you've even gone there and checked it out for yourself, keep your mouth shut about things you don't know are true or not.  All you have to go by is hearsay"

Government operates best when it allows all messengers to offer their views, allowing the American people to decide which take root and which wither away.
--Harold Furchtgott-Roth, member of the Federal Communications Commission

I'm done with trying.  All you do on here is twist things to suit yourselves.  No one can have an opinion different from yours or then they are wrong.  I was just pointing out that you shouldn't take things just on what you hear, but maybe take the time to actually check it out yourself.  I had always thought that even in a court of law, hearsay isn't allowed...maybe I'm wrong.  The funny thing is that I agree with you in regards to stopping WWASP programs, but I guess it's more fun to mock people for using the wrong words...must make you feel important.[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-28 18:41 ]

[Antigen]

Ok, and how do you suggest we find out? Should we all take jobs there? Should we just drop in and offer to take a couple of first levels out fishing one weekend so we can speak candidly? Maybe we should find some very youthful looking and brave PI and sign them up as a troubled kid?

How, exactly, do you suppose one would go about getting firsthand experience w/ a program that employs total isolation in the way WWASP programs do?

And what did I twist? I only commented that, like it or not, that sure does sound like what every cult leader down through history has ever said.

There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy.
--George Washington

[69]

On 2006-03-28 17:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2006-03-28 17:08:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2006-03-28 16:41:00, Anonymous wrote:



"If it took you a year to figure out that WWASPs methods are abusive, you really must be a Montana inbred.  One glance at the Hobbit pictures and the rest of the world feels their stomach churn with disgust at the thought of what children inside must have felt.  No wonder CCM girl is calling you out.  You saw abuses and kept that job for an entire year until the long shifts finally wore on you.  Shame on you."

Of course that's the whole point, isn't it? The "hobbit" pictures create such a great opportunity for dramatics, but the reality is that there isn't anything abusive going on. The photos posted are probably around seven or eight years old, and I doubt that anyone who works at SCL would even recognize them. (BTW, why does anyone call it that? Aren't hobbit homes warm and inviting?)





SCL may use an approach you don't agree with, but abuse is an entirely different thing, and this person doesn't claim that's what s/he saw. You've never been there, and neither has CCM girl, but you're both posing as authorities on the whole thing. Shame on YOU."

Agreed!  Until you've even gone there and checked it out for yourself, keep your mouth shut about things you don't know are true or not.  All you have to go by is hearsay"

I spent close to a month in the hobbit, and know it well. I'd say I have thoroughly 'checked out' the hobbit. Have you spent a week straight locked up like an animal? It's not fun. Yes, abuse occured at SCL while I was there, I was on the recieving end on many occasions.

The burden of proof is on you Spring Creek Lodge. You have abused enough of us that it isn't just 'hearsay' anymore. Nobody has pity for the employees of SCL, good intentions or not. What we care about is innocent children being locked away by crazy parents with money who think they are doing a good thing too. Everyone thinks they are doing such a great deed, but you are not, do not fool yourselves.

This is from an earlier post of mine, because I've had this conversation too many times before on this forum and don't feel like typing it all again. Everytime the pro-wwaspies get in a bind, they say 'you dont know nothing you haven't been there', etc. I spent almost a month locked up in the shitty isolation cell. SCL destroys children, all while thinking they are doing good. It's fucking pathetic, sadistic and needs to be stopped.

If a parent were to treat their child the way WWASP staff do, they would be imprisoned. Yet, it occurs continuously at WWASP and similar programs. What gives them the right to hold a child in isolation, submission and humiliation with absolutely no oversight?

There are strict rules and guidelines in our country's correctional system when an inmate is being placed in isolation. It is a relatively rare, and heavily documented event, and the inmate has rights and access to an advocate. Why not at SCL? SCL is at the same level as the recently reported CIA secret prisons. Out of sight, out of mind.

The hobbit was almost always occupied while I was there. Kids were placed in the hobbit for things as inconsequencial as 'choosing out' of a seminar. (if you don't know what that means, click on the piano finders link below and read about seminars) They throw kids in the beginning of Discovery when they get kicked out, and let them sit 'till the end- three days. Do you think not participating in a psycho cry fest- as many newspapers have referred to it- is reason to be kept in isolation with limited meals in conditions so utterly deplorable? I sure don't.

Do they limit your food for punishment? Yes.

For breakfast we received one peeled banana, and a plain bagel served with a bathroom toiletry cup full of water. For dinner - yes we only got two meals - was a tortilla filled with black beans, and lettuce on the side. No utensils. That's it.

Why would they limit food like this... for treatment purposes? No, I say to punish. So yes, I call this food deprivation. For what other purpose would it serve to limit portions like this and give such plain food with very little/no nutritional value? Prisoners eat better than the kids in the hobbit. Murderers on death row have more rights than the kids in the hobbit.

So yes, you are correct, they don't refuse you food completely, instead they give you the absolute bottom of the barrel definition of what a meal actually is. Just enough to keep from getting arrested.

Were we allowed to shower? No.

We were allowed a thin sleeping bag from the time 9pm-5am. We slept on hardwood in the bag with no pillow. It was cold and extremely uncomfortable.

The staff would sleep outside the doors of the individual cells in the staff part of the hobbit. They would place two or three mattresses on top of each other, and block both doors to the cells, and sleep on that. The staff would obviously feel if either cell door was opening, as they opened outwards. They would bring a ton of blankets and pillows, quite a comfortable bed they had.

We were only allowed to wear one layer of clothes. They say to protect from anyone trying to run, but with a staff posted outside your closed door, this was close to impossible not to mention we had no shoes. It's obvious this was also for punishment (it gets frigidly cold).

The bathroom was a port-a-potty located about 50 yards down in the direction of the 'hungry horse', the cafeteria, a common place for others to be. They had full view of the portapotty. So when you had to go to the bathroom, you had to ask the staff, because they have to escort you down. The staff were always in a bad mood, their job absolutely sucked! They were in the hobbit all day too, and commonly they would pull double shifts because they received a lot of extra pay up at the hobbit. One staff would tell me how much he'd make if he spent two days straight working the hobbit, and it was several hundred dollars. It's pretty stressful after that long, and who do you think they take that out on?

Back to the portapotty though. So, once you managed to convince the staff to let you go to the bathroom, they'd let you out of your room, or cell or whatever you want to call it, to put on your shoelace-less shoes out in the staff area of the hobbit. Then they would parade you down to the portapotty, and of course there would be families walking by, perfect timing for humiliation. Staff sure would get a laugh at the steam coming from the portapotty in the cold winter months. I heard from another student one kid locked himself and wouldn't let himself out. They pushed it over and one can only imagine that mess. Overall, the best situation was to hold it as long as possible. It was freezing, humiliating and gross to go to the bathroom. Again, all part of the punishment.

It's disgusting. Three days straight in sweats a t-shirt and socks, and you can't change any of those items for the entire time. We spent the entire day sitting on the dirty linoleum flooring, which was stained with piss and reeked like ... you get the picture.

There were kids who spent weeks, and months up there. Some kids just can't handle being institutionalized and went crazy. Or as you might put it, 'escalating', except these kids never stopped until they lost it. Why they weren't sent to a psych hospital I will never know. These were the kids who would deficate in the hobbit and smear it on the wall. These were the kids who would carve up their arm like a bloody halloween movie and spread the words 'FREEDOM' across the wall with their own blood.

How is this for reality. I saw these things with my own eyes. I hope this is 'relative and applicable' enough for you to take me seriously.

So, anon wwasp supporter who thinks 'the hobbit' sounds homely :roll:  ...  perhaps you should take your own advice and not comment on something you nothing about. Or did you spend time locked up in special needs?

How did you put it?

Agreed!  Until you've even gone there and checked it out for yourself, keep your mouth shut about things you don't know are true or not.

Ah, that's the stuff.

The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060007761/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Alexander Solzhenitsyn