Author Topic: Spring Creek Lodge  (Read 336640 times)

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Offline 69

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« Reply #1170 on: March 28, 2006, 10:32:00 PM »
And just in case you're bored and feel like reading more about the 'homely' hobbit, here's another post I made a while back:

On that note, here's something I left out of the blog, among countless other anecdotes.

While I was in one cell of the hobbit, and another kid in the other, we were informed there was a tour coming through, and it was insinuated to us if we did anything other than smile and praise SCL, we would regret it. They gave us some paper towels to clean the rooms up, and a book (the bible ). I sat down on the 'bed' (lower wooden bunk you see in the hobbit picture) and pretended I was politely reading my book. Even I, someone who passively resisted the program, didn't want to piss off the director himself - who knows what would of happened. The other kid obviously concurred with my line of reasoning, because I didn't hear a peep out of him, and normally he never shut up.

Sure enough, the parents roll through with their entourage of escorts. Not only the facility director, and another staff - but also a couple high level kids - you know, the ones who are just about to get out and will sing praise to the program no matter what to avoid being dropped.

I watched out my window as they brought the parents from the office towards the hobbit. The parents are typical looking, what you would expect. They were white, middle age, graying hair on the man - light dusty blond shoulder length hair on the woman. He was wearing slacks and a button up shirt. She was dressed in typical middle-class woman attire, and must of been ten years or more younger than the man. The reason I remember this is because I thought it was so inappropriate for the environment we were in- there was several feet of snow and very cold- yet it looked like these people just got off a flight from Los Angeles. They looked, well, very out of place. Not just their clothes though. When all you see everyday is the faces of caged teenagers, and authoritative staff for months on end, simple things such as a normal looking middle class white couple stand out. Their faces didn't belong, they were too innocent.

The parents peered through the small barred window of the door, as if they were looking at a caged animal. I looked back at them briefly, enough time to make eye contact, but it was too odd, I just went back to staring at my book uncomfortably. The look on their faces was of curious approval. The 'oh that's not so bad' kind of look on their face. The eyebrows up, slow tempo nod of the head, as if they were fit to judge me needing to be in there. I felt truly pathetic at the moment. I know how the animals at the zoo must feel.

They were in and out, very briefly. Nobody asked us anything, or talked to us, completing our dehumanization process. As they approached, came in and left the director kept up his sales pitch, because that's all it was. He had to keep talking- like an infomercial salesman - desperately attempting to alleviate the parents obvious negative intuition about leaving their son. Well -heck, they took the extraordinary step to arrange a tour. Most parents don't even do that. Some hire a kidnapper to do the job for them.

They certainly paid for a good show. SCL is a nice and tidy facility at first glance. Yes, we spent a LOT of time cleaning. We learned how to pretend to be GREAT kids too. The parents seemed convinced with this superficial view of the program. It's not what you can see that is so disturbing about this program. The problem lies where you cannot peer.

So, they were conned. Not only did SCL fool them, they fooled themselves. As many before them, and many after them will be. And you know what; they are just the type of people who get conned everyday. They belong to the class of people who are the targets of con-artists, desperate, in search of quick answers to complicated problems and willing to listen to anybody who will offer to help. Parents, beware!

Fear believes--courage doubts. Fear falls up the earth and prays--- courage stands erect and thinks. Fear is barbarism---courage is civilization. Fear believes in witchcraft, devils and ghosts. Fear is religion, courage is science.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

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Offline 69

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« Reply #1171 on: March 28, 2006, 10:40:00 PM »
Quote
The "hobbit" pictures create such a great opportunity for dramatics, but the reality is that there isn't anything abusive going on.


BULLSHIT! That is a lie.



For some of us, this was our entire reality. 24/7 For anywhere from 3 days to weeks on end. I spent 28 days there total. Think about spending that much time in that tiny cell. You cannot even begin to imagine what kind of torturous hell it is. I know what those carvings feel like under my fingertips as I ran my hand over them. I know the kids who made many of those markings. I know what it looks like staring from the other end of the room. I know exactly what you see when you peer out the window. I know what that room tastes like, smells like and everything in between. I know what it looks like when blood smears that wall.

This picture is very real to a lot of us. For you to say nothing abusive happened is an outright lie. A complete and utter misrepresntation of truth. I WAS ABUSED IN THE HOBBIT. SO WERE A LOT OF OTHER KIDS. I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES.

Patient memoirs are a kind of protest literature like slave narratives or witness testimonies.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=us&q=G.A.Hornstein&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web' target='_new'>G.A.Hornstein

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Offline 001010

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« Reply #1172 on: March 28, 2006, 10:40:00 PM »
Thank you, Exit Plan. We know you speak the truth. Ignore these program apologists who have nothing better to do but defend crimes committed against children. All of us who have been victims of the program know abuse, neglect and yes, torture, when we see or hear about it. Ignore them, and don't ever let them silence you. Your words have power, and we know what you speak is the truth.

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Offline 001010

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« Reply #1173 on: March 28, 2006, 10:48:00 PM »
Quote
On 2006-03-28 19:40:00, Exit Plan wrote:








Yes, that looks like a prison cell to me. In Straight we had "Time-out rooms" which was our version of a "Hobbit." There were carvings and blood on those walls too. No matter how many years pass, abuse is abuse, false imprisonment is just that, and solitary confinement for no reason and against one?s free will is torture.
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Offline 69

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« Reply #1174 on: March 28, 2006, 10:50:00 PM »
Thanks, 001010. I am overwhelmed by emotion and hurt and horrible memories when I read that anon's post saying 'shame on you' to someone pointing out the abuses of SCL. Who are they to shame anyone here? Shame on us? For telling our stories that we wished never happened to us? I don't usually get upset, but I am literally shaking. How can they be so disconnected from reality? We all know WWASPS puts on a great show for parents, and hides the true nature of the program. I just posted about this, the parents touring the hobbit even. To suggest people cannot comment on this topic without visiting SCL is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

The abuse didn't occur in the middle of the facility during a parents tour. It happened up in the hobbit or worksheets when a staff pulling a double shift to get extra money to go elk hunting gets cranky after spending 4 days up in the hobbit babysitting kids who need professional attention. It happened late at night when the families arranged fights and the nerdy kid got his ass beat. It occured when the 12 year old wouldn't stand up for himself and acted, well, like a kid. It happened in worksheets when the 20 year old program graduate worker got tired of sitting in a cabin all day listening to books on tape.

Yes, abuse happens. It might not be policy, it might not be the majority of staff committing it, but it does occur. The very strucutre of the unregulated program encourages it. Employing unskilled, cheap labor promotes it. Giving a staff complete and utter control over another human being promotes abuse. Believing you can 'beat the devil' out of a teen, guess what, promotes abuse.

I am still shaking, it's a disconcerting feeling to have someone tell you, you were not abused in the very place you were. The hobbit is the location of my nightmares, and many other kids I'm sure. Hopefully I'll stop shaking soon.

...to disarm the people (is) the best and most effective way to enslave them...
-- George Mason

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Offline 001010

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« Reply #1175 on: March 28, 2006, 11:00:00 PM »
Trust me, Exit Plan, I know, and most likely they are people who have worked or do work in one of these shameful facilities and the only way for them to deal with their own guilt for what they've done is to live in complete denial. Otherwise, they'd have to face the fact that they are monsters devoid of human compassion. Don't (as hard as I realize it is) let them get to you.

You have friends. Unfortunately, we all have enemies too.

May peace be with you as you read these words, and find comfort in knowing that you are not alone.


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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1176 on: March 29, 2006, 12:36:00 AM »
I have tried and tried to tell you all that I am NOT a WWASP supporter.  Yes, I worked there, but no I don't support, believe in or agree with what they do there.  I was just being honest when I said that I hadn't seen the abuse with "my own eyes", so I couldn't testify to it happening. I never said I doubted that it happened.  Why is it so hard for you people to believe that just because someone worked there they can't be trying to make things right?  There are more people still working there that are trying to make a difference by staying there and doing the best to help these kids.  If you go to the Spring Creekers site on Myspace and look at the topic titled "favorite staff" you'll see that even the kids have found a few staff that are working to make changes by being there for the kids.

After I started working there I started hearing rumours about this website, so I checked it out.  I was trying to find answers to questions I had about things that were going on in the program.  Like I said before I never saw any PHYSICAL abuse, so I concentrated on the verbal and mental abuse I saw going on. I wanted to put an end to that, but I wasn't sure how to do it.  I called CPS, but all they said was they were watching the situation closely.

The part that got to me was the person that said I should be ashamed for staying on there after I knew what was going on, but you tell me a better way to watch and get evidence of what was happening. Why are you all so quick to judge my intentions when you don't even know me.  I don't know any of you, but when I read your stories about the things that happened to you while in these places I didn't immediately assume you were a liar.  I listened and I learned.  That's exactly what I did while working there.  I talked to the girls in my care and tried to be there for them when they needed me.  I did try to get something done by contacting the proper authorities and will continue to do so if they need me to.

 "Everyone thinks they are doing such a great deed, but you are not, do not fool yourselves."

So do I just quit what I'm doing because you  think I'm fooling myself?  I don't think I'm doing a great deed, but I feel like I'm trying to do "something" instead of just sitting around making posts to this website about it.

I tried to get the girls in my family to give me any little bit of info about what was happening at SCL that they could, so I could take that to CPS with proof.  I didn't want to go there and then have SCL tell them I was just a disgruntled employee.  I wanted something to back up what I had to say.  Fortunately for the girls in my care, none of them had experienced any abuse while there.  Granted, they could have been witholding information for fear of some sort of retaliation against them.  I do know for a fact that that shit does happen, not only to the kids but to the staff that dare to cross managment.  That, I've seen with my own eyes.

To those that suffered while there, I am so very sorry for what you went through.  I don't say that to calm my own "guilt" like someone had said I was doing.  I say that with sincere sadness for what happened to you.  That's the reason I'm still trying to help anyway possible to get these programs shut down, but I don't know what else to do besides what I've already tried.  That's why I started coming here so that I could maybe find a way to do more, but I see that you will never believe in my sincerity no matter what I say. I guess I'm back to trying it on my own again.
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Offline 001010

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« Reply #1177 on: March 29, 2006, 12:43:00 AM »
If those are truly your intentions, then go for it.  

Register and PM me, and we'll talk more.
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Offline 69

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« Reply #1178 on: March 29, 2006, 01:04:00 AM »
Okay, so we agree that WWASPS is bad.  

I was responding specifically to these quotes:

Quote
The "hobbit" pictures create such a great opportunity for dramatics, but the reality is that there isn't anything abusive going on.

Reality is abuse was commonplace in the hobbit.

Quote
Agreed! Until you've even gone there and checked it out for yourself, keep your mouth shut about things you don't know are true or not. All you have to go by is hearsay"

I am telling them, they are right to criticize the program. The most articulate posters here and the most informed about the WWASPS empire did not attend the program. How do you expect people to check it out for themselves? Is SCL giving guided tours now? This is a ridiculous statment. Nice touch with the program word, "agreed".

Quote
SCL may use an approach you don't agree with, but abuse is an entirely different thing, and this person doesn't claim that's what s/he saw. You've never been there, and neither has CCM girl, but you're both posing as authorities on the whole thing. Shame on YOU."

The approach WWASPS uses IS abuse and causes many children to be abused, while their parents pay good money for it. CCM girl was horribly abused at another WWASPS program... shame on her? Every criticism I've read of SCL is SPOT on, I'd say they make pretty good authorities on the topic. Shame?

I don't know who made these posts I quote above, it's hard to keep track of anons, and I don't try. Whoever made them is beyond hypocritical, claiming other posters don't have authority to post on subjects such as the hobbit, when they go on to LIE themselves about the treatment children receive while being locked up in isolation, no matter what the cage is called.

I am trying to clear up the lies I see for anyone who comes and reads this thread in the future. These lies were too over the top for me not to comment. SCL is abusive. WWASPS is abusive. This is fact.

If you are serious about making change, get together with one of the half dozen organizations formed. Take the bag off your head and put up an email. Write your story out for others to see, here and on other forums. Join forces with others at myspace or other forums. Talk to the people in your town about the truth about SCL. Write letters, come to protests, etc. These are all the things we are doing now. Work to inform parents. They still don't like to believe young people, call us program dropouts, etc.. maybe they would take ex-staff more seriously than 'us'.

Quote
but I don't know what else to do besides what I've already tried.


What did you try?

Pray: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
--Ambrose Bierce

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1179 on: March 29, 2006, 10:28:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-03-28 21:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I have tried and tried to tell you all that I am NOT a WWASP supporter.  Yes, I worked there, but no I don't support, believe in or agree with what they do there.  I was just being honest when I said that I hadn't seen the abuse with "my own eyes", so I couldn't testify to it happening. I never said I doubted that it happened.  Why is it so hard for you people to believe that just because someone worked there they can't be trying to make things right?  There are more people still working there that are trying to make a difference by staying there and doing the best to help these kids.  If you go to the Spring Creekers site on Myspace and look at the topic titled "favorite staff" you'll see that even the kids have found a few staff that are working to make changes by being there for the kids.



After I started working there I started hearing rumours about this website, so I checked it out.  I was trying to find answers to questions I had about things that were going on in the program.  Like I said before I never saw any PHYSICAL abuse, so I concentrated on the verbal and mental abuse I saw going on. I wanted to put an end to that, but I wasn't sure how to do it.  I called CPS, but all they said was they were watching the situation closely.



The part that got to me was the person that said I should be ashamed for staying on there after I knew what was going on, but you tell me a better way to watch and get evidence of what was happening. Why are you all so quick to judge my intentions when you don't even know me.  I don't know any of you, but when I read your stories about the things that happened to you while in these places I didn't immediately assume you were a liar.  I listened and I learned.  That's exactly what I did while working there.  I talked to the girls in my care and tried to be there for them when they needed me.  I did try to get something done by contacting the proper authorities and will continue to do so if they need me to.



 "Everyone thinks they are doing such a great deed, but you are not, do not fool yourselves."



So do I just quit what I'm doing because you  think I'm fooling myself?  I don't think I'm doing a great deed, but I feel like I'm trying to do "something" instead of just sitting around making posts to this website about it.



I tried to get the girls in my family to give me any little bit of info about what was happening at SCL that they could, so I could take that to CPS with proof.  I didn't want to go there and then have SCL tell them I was just a disgruntled employee.  I wanted something to back up what I had to say.  Fortunately for the girls in my care, none of them had experienced any abuse while there.  Granted, they could have been witholding information for fear of some sort of retaliation against them.  I do know for a fact that that shit does happen, not only to the kids but to the staff that dare to cross managment.  That, I've seen with my own eyes.



To those that suffered while there, I am so very sorry for what you went through.  I don't say that to calm my own "guilt" like someone had said I was doing.  I say that with sincere sadness for what happened to you.  That's the reason I'm still trying to help anyway possible to get these programs shut down, but I don't know what else to do besides what I've already tried.  That's why I started coming here so that I could maybe find a way to do more, but I see that you will never believe in my sincerity no matter what I say. I guess I'm back to trying it on my own again.

"


Are you kidding me?  You expected abused kids to confide in *you*?  One of (to them) the enemy?

Suuuuure you're "the nice guard."  You're their old friend old buddy old pal who is going to blunder around in your hopeless naivete and get *their* asses beat into the ground and worse.

When *your* naivete gets somebody horribly, horribly retaliated against *it won't be you*.  They know that.  They know that full well.

That you have to ask them or prod them to see *if* abuse is going on tells them everything they need to know about you----that you're a naive effing fool who is going to blunder around and get *them* hurt worse and then let yourself off the hook for it (or, more likely, not even notice it happened) because of your "good intentions."

The only right thing to do is to quit being complicit in their abuse by stopping working there.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

When you work for bad people who do bad things, they *use* you---they use your well meaning, innocent naivete as a front, they make sure that people checking them out either encounter the really slick liars or you.  People encountering you will feel that you're honest and well meaning and will, on the basis of meeting you, come to the completely false conclusion that it's a safe place to leave their kid.

People like you working for them is the only thing that makes it possible for them to stay in business.  Without people like you in it, their whole con would fall apart.

You think people here just post on Fornits and that's all we do?

I'm an author.  I pass the truth along to my readers---the truth that behavior modification facilities are terrible places to put children and are terribly unsafe---particularly for children with mental health problems like cutting, depression, bipolar disorder, or borderline personality disorder.

This week, I also passed the truth along to my pshrink, who has a local radio show.  I gave him the name of the book _Help At Any Cost_ and went over the highlights of the red flags against these places.

A lot of people on Fornits are often surprised by my insistence that the blanket stopping of the kids' mail is horrible, dangerous, ominous, and highly unethical.  For a licensed clinical psychologist or licensed psychiatrist, it's one of the biggest red flags I can say about these places, and one of the easiest to verify.

One of the first things they teach about ethics in the beginning abnormal psychology classes is that inpatient hospitals, facilities, whatever, must not and may not ethically stop patients' mail *except* when a patient's own personal doctor decides, for a very limited time, that getting or sending certain letters would hurt the patient.  The usual examples are where the patient is threatening or stalking someone, or some of the patient's obnoxious relatives are sending horrible, abusive letters haranguing him, or are sending him martyred guilt trips and playing destructive head games on him.

When I tell any psychology or psychiatry professional that these places stop the patients' mail across the board, as a blanket policy, while the patient is on "level 1" or the equivalent---that is, until the patient begins to be compliant about saying what the facility wants them to say....  When I tell licensed professionals in the field about that, every red flag they have goes off immediately.

So my doctor immediately knew exactly what these places were like. Just from knowing about the mail, he could pretty much infer the rest.  Messing with the patients' mail outside those very narrow and specific guidelines is such an ethics no-no.  

How can I explain it so that you'll understand?  Okay, put it like this.  If you told me a lawyer got drunk at lunch with you and told you all the private business of one of his clients, that's all you'd have to tell me about that lawyer.  If you told me a Catholic Priest went and told a husband his wife had said in confession that she was having an affair, that's all you'd have to tell me about that Priest.  I'd know that lawyer and priest were shamelessly unethical SOBs.

Screwing around with an institutionalized person's mail, outside of those very narrow and specific guidelines, or stretching those guidelines a lot but saying you're still within them------that is so taboo that when you hear a place is doing it, that is absolutely all a decent professional needs to know about a place to know they're shamelessly unethical SOBs.

You're like the law clerk for the lawyer who drunkenly shares his clients' privileged information all over town.  When people think ill of you for working for "that guy" if you could get another job, they're right.  Whether you see it or not, they're right.

When you continue to work for someone once you know they have serious ethics problems, you taint yourself with their lack of ethics, because they're getting their money unethically, and you're feeding at that trough.  Whether you get paid well or a pittance doesn't matter----your bills are getting paid off of that unethical behavior.

Exit Plan has told us many of the horrible things SCL does.  Taking the tainted money they take in is how you pay your bills.

You can tell yourself it's a pittance, you can tell yourself your intentions are good, you can ask what else can you do and rationalize it all you want.

People who do horrible things *usually* manage to rationalize it away and come up with a bazillion empty "reasons" why what they're doing is only what they have to do, from the best of intentions.

So anyway, I told a psychiatrist with a mental health radio show about the "troubled teen" scam and how dangerous it is, and gave him the title of Help at Any Cost---which is a good starting place for someone first learning about this horror.

His listenership is exactly the target market for this industry.  Middle-class, mostly white, middle aged parents who are worried about their teenagers.

He'll be able to do a far better job than I would at warning parents away from the scam, and drawing the distinction between the Behavior Modification Program scams versus the real, ethical, medical model, inpatient care for the few patients who are are imminently dangerous to themselves or others and are in dire need of a short term hospitalization to get stabilized.

Sending your child to a facility that routinely stops the mail for all of the incoming kids, for *any* length of time, is like sending your best friend to a divorce attorney who sleeps with his clients.

The scum you see floating on the top merely hints at the corruption underneath those waters.

When you work for viral scum, you get infected.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1180 on: March 29, 2006, 10:52:00 AM »
I didn't make it clear----I get that you don't work there now.

We get this line of "at least I'm doing something" from staff at these facilities so frequently that my commentary on why it's bad to work for one of the Programs is general and not just you.

You certainly sound sincere.  What you don't appear to realize is that the system jaded you by presenting what you were seeing done there as "not abuse."

A lot of the things they routinely do, like making people walk "nut to butt" everywhere and punishing them if they fall out, depriving them of weather-appropriate attire, blanket interference with their mail-----those are all abusive, and the mail thing is incredibly unethical.

Laymen seem to be not that fussed by it, but as a professional matter it is incredibly unethical and is the scum on the surface that tells the tale of the corruption beneath.

I ended up making it sound like all that was "at you" because I lost track, halfway through the post, of the fact that you don't work there anymore.  Sorry, I got distracted.

That really is my *general* response to people working at Programs and rationalizing.

I know *you* don't (or rather, I now remember), and I don't mean to blast *you*.

My whole thing with you is that it would be good if you could come to realize where many of the things you routinely saw *were* abuse---the system just conditioned you not to consider them abuse.

Good lord, if I lived in Pennsylvania or Montana and *deliberately* took my kid's shoelaces away in wintertime, for *any* reason, they'd take my kid out of my home and prosecute me.  If I deliberately kept my kid out of climate-appropriate winter footwear (read: snow boots), same thing.

It's neglect when you can't afford it (and don't ask for social services help) or you're just careless.  It's abuse when you *deliberately* withhold the necessities.

I know what's setting me off about you saying you didn't see abuse is that so much of the routine stuff is abuse.  For you to say you didn't see abuse has to mean that you got so accustomed to seeing certain very shocking things that they didn't register with you as abusive.

Julie
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1181 on: March 29, 2006, 11:04:00 AM »
Quote
On 2006-03-29 07:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2006-03-28 21:36:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I have tried and tried to tell you all that I am NOT a WWASP supporter.  Yes, I worked there, but no I don't support, believe in or agree with what they do there.  I was just being honest when I said that I hadn't seen the abuse with "my own eyes", so I couldn't testify to it happening. I never said I doubted that it happened.  Why is it so hard for you people to believe that just because someone worked there they can't be trying to make things right?  There are more people still working there that are trying to make a difference by staying there and doing the best to help these kids.  If you go to the Spring Creekers site on Myspace and look at the topic titled "favorite staff" you'll see that even the kids have found a few staff that are working to make changes by being there for the kids.





After I started working there I started hearing rumours about this website, so I checked it out.  I was trying to find answers to questions I had about things that were going on in the program.  Like I said before I never saw any PHYSICAL abuse, so I concentrated on the verbal and mental abuse I saw going on. I wanted to put an end to that, but I wasn't sure how to do it.  I called CPS, but all they said was they were watching the situation closely.





The part that got to me was the person that said I should be ashamed for staying on there after I knew what was going on, but you tell me a better way to watch and get evidence of what was happening. Why are you all so quick to judge my intentions when you don't even know me.  I don't know any of you, but when I read your stories about the things that happened to you while in these places I didn't immediately assume you were a liar.  I listened and I learned.  That's exactly what I did while working there.  I talked to the girls in my care and tried to be there for them when they needed me.  I did try to get something done by contacting the proper authorities and will continue to do so if they need me to.





 "Everyone thinks they are doing such a great deed, but you are not, do not fool yourselves."





So do I just quit what I'm doing because you  think I'm fooling myself?  I don't think I'm doing a great deed, but I feel like I'm trying to do "something" instead of just sitting around making posts to this website about it.





I tried to get the girls in my family to give me any little bit of info about what was happening at SCL that they could, so I could take that to CPS with proof.  I didn't want to go there and then have SCL tell them I was just a disgruntled employee.  I wanted something to back up what I had to say.  Fortunately for the girls in my care, none of them had experienced any abuse while there.  Granted, they could have been witholding information for fear of some sort of retaliation against them.  I do know for a fact that that shit does happen, not only to the kids but to the staff that dare to cross managment.  That, I've seen with my own eyes.





To those that suffered while there, I am so very sorry for what you went through.  I don't say that to calm my own "guilt" like someone had said I was doing.  I say that with sincere sadness for what happened to you.  That's the reason I'm still trying to help anyway possible to get these programs shut down, but I don't know what else to do besides what I've already tried.  That's why I started coming here so that I could maybe find a way to do more, but I see that you will never believe in my sincerity no matter what I say. I guess I'm back to trying it on my own again.


"




Are you kidding me?  You expected abused kids to confide in *you*?  One of (to them) the enemy?



Suuuuure you're "the nice guard."  You're their old friend old buddy old pal who is going to blunder around in your hopeless naivete and get *their* asses beat into the ground and worse.



When *your* naivete gets somebody horribly, horribly retaliated against *it won't be you*.  They know that.  They know that full well.



That you have to ask them or prod them to see *if* abuse is going on tells them everything they need to know about you----that you're a naive effing fool who is going to blunder around and get *them* hurt worse and then let yourself off the hook for it (or, more likely, not even notice it happened) because of your "good intentions."



The only right thing to do is to quit being complicit in their abuse by stopping working there.



The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.



When you work for bad people who do bad things, they *use* you---they use your well meaning, innocent naivete as a front, they make sure that people checking them out either encounter the really slick liars or you.  People encountering you will feel that you're honest and well meaning and will, on the basis of meeting you, come to the completely false conclusion that it's a safe place to leave their kid.



People like you working for them is the only thing that makes it possible for them to stay in business.  Without people like you in it, their whole con would fall apart.



You think people here just post on Fornits and that's all we do?



I'm an author.  I pass the truth along to my readers---the truth that behavior modification facilities are terrible places to put children and are terribly unsafe---particularly for children with mental health problems like cutting, depression, bipolar disorder, or borderline personality disorder.



This week, I also passed the truth along to my pshrink, who has a local radio show.  I gave him the name of the book _Help At Any Cost_ and went over the highlights of the red flags against these places.



A lot of people on Fornits are often surprised by my insistence that the blanket stopping of the kids' mail is horrible, dangerous, ominous, and highly unethical.  For a licensed clinical psychologist or licensed psychiatrist, it's one of the biggest red flags I can say about these places, and one of the easiest to verify.



One of the first things they teach about ethics in the beginning abnormal psychology classes is that inpatient hospitals, facilities, whatever, must not and may not ethically stop patients' mail *except* when a patient's own personal doctor decides, for a very limited time, that getting or sending certain letters would hurt the patient.  The usual examples are where the patient is threatening or stalking someone, or some of the patient's obnoxious relatives are sending horrible, abusive letters haranguing him, or are sending him martyred guilt trips and playing destructive head games on him.



When I tell any psychology or psychiatry professional that these places stop the patients' mail across the board, as a blanket policy, while the patient is on "level 1" or the equivalent---that is, until the patient begins to be compliant about saying what the facility wants them to say....  When I tell licensed professionals in the field about that, every red flag they have goes off immediately.



So my doctor immediately knew exactly what these places were like. Just from knowing about the mail, he could pretty much infer the rest.  Messing with the patients' mail outside those very narrow and specific guidelines is such an ethics no-no.  



How can I explain it so that you'll understand?  Okay, put it like this.  If you told me a lawyer got drunk at lunch with you and told you all the private business of one of his clients, that's all you'd have to tell me about that lawyer.  If you told me a Catholic Priest went and told a husband his wife had said in confession that she was having an affair, that's all you'd have to tell me about that Priest.  I'd know that lawyer and priest were shamelessly unethical SOBs.



Screwing around with an institutionalized person's mail, outside of those very narrow and specific guidelines, or stretching those guidelines a lot but saying you're still within them------that is so taboo that when you hear a place is doing it, that is absolutely all a decent professional needs to know about a place to know they're shamelessly unethical SOBs.



You're like the law clerk for the lawyer who drunkenly shares his clients' privileged information all over town.  When people think ill of you for working for "that guy" if you could get another job, they're right.  Whether you see it or not, they're right.



When you continue to work for someone once you know they have serious ethics problems, you taint yourself with their lack of ethics, because they're getting their money unethically, and you're feeding at that trough.  Whether you get paid well or a pittance doesn't matter----your bills are getting paid off of that unethical behavior.



Exit Plan has told us many of the horrible things SCL does.  Taking the tainted money they take in is how you pay your bills.



You can tell yourself it's a pittance, you can tell yourself your intentions are good, you can ask what else can you do and rationalize it all you want.



People who do horrible things *usually* manage to rationalize it away and come up with a bazillion empty "reasons" why what they're doing is only what they have to do, from the best of intentions.



So anyway, I told a psychiatrist with a mental health radio show about the "troubled teen" scam and how dangerous it is, and gave him the title of Help at Any Cost---which is a good starting place for someone first learning about this horror.



His listenership is exactly the target market for this industry.  Middle-class, mostly white, middle aged parents who are worried about their teenagers.



He'll be able to do a far better job than I would at warning parents away from the scam, and drawing the distinction between the Behavior Modification Program scams versus the real, ethical, medical model, inpatient care for the few patients who are are imminently dangerous to themselves or others and are in dire need of a short term hospitalization to get stabilized.



Sending your child to a facility that routinely stops the mail for all of the incoming kids, for *any* length of time, is like sending your best friend to a divorce attorney who sleeps with his clients.



The scum you see floating on the top merely hints at the corruption underneath those waters.



When you work for viral scum, you get infected.



Julie"


Lucid argument, but unfortunately based on the incorrect premise that all these schools stop the mail. SCL doesn't. Only the parents can determine who sends to or receives mail from their kids. And with very few exceptions, no one reads the students' mail, either.

So what if I lied to you about the lawyer breaking confidence? What if I didn't have a clue whether or not that priest really said anything about the affair?  If six people said they did, and six said they didn't, would you have the good sense to go ask them yourself?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1182 on: March 29, 2006, 11:04:00 AM »
"
Quote

On 2006-03-28 21:36:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I have tried and tried to tell you all that I am NOT a WWASP supporter.  Yes, I worked there, but no I don't support, believe in or agree with what they do there.  I was just being honest when I said that I hadn't seen the abuse with "my own eyes", so I couldn't testify to it happening. I never said I doubted that it happened.  Why is it so hard for you people to believe that just because someone worked there they can't be trying to make things right?  There are more people still working there that are trying to make a difference by staying there and doing the best to help these kids.  If you go to the Spring Creekers site on Myspace and look at the topic titled "favorite staff" you'll see that even the kids have found a few staff that are working to make changes by being there for the kids.





After I started working there I started hearing rumours about this website, so I checked it out.  I was trying to find answers to questions I had about things that were going on in the program.  Like I said before I never saw any PHYSICAL abuse, so I concentrated on the verbal and mental abuse I saw going on. I wanted to put an end to that, but I wasn't sure how to do it.  I called CPS, but all they said was they were watching the situation closely.





The part that got to me was the person that said I should be ashamed for staying on there after I knew what was going on, but you tell me a better way to watch and get evidence of what was happening. Why are you all so quick to judge my intentions when you don't even know me.  I don't know any of you, but when I read your stories about the things that happened to you while in these places I didn't immediately assume you were a liar.  I listened and I learned.  That's exactly what I did while working there.  I talked to the girls in my care and tried to be there for them when they needed me.  I did try to get something done by contacting the proper authorities and will continue to do so if they need me to.





 "Everyone thinks they are doing such a great deed, but you are not, do not fool yourselves."





So do I just quit what I'm doing because you  think I'm fooling myself?  I don't think I'm doing a great deed, but I feel like I'm trying to do "something" instead of just sitting around making posts to this website about it.





I tried to get the girls in my family to give me any little bit of info about what was happening at SCL that they could, so I could take that to CPS with proof.  I didn't want to go there and then have SCL tell them I was just a disgruntled employee.  I wanted something to back up what I had to say.  Fortunately for the girls in my care, none of them had experienced any abuse while there.  Granted, they could have been witholding information for fear of some sort of retaliation against them.  I do know for a fact that that shit does happen, not only to the kids but to the staff that dare to cross managment.  That, I've seen with my own eyes.





To those that suffered while there, I am so very sorry for what you went through.  I don't say that to calm my own "guilt" like someone had said I was doing.  I say that with sincere sadness for what happened to you.  That's the reason I'm still trying to help anyway possible to get these programs shut down, but I don't know what else to do besides what I've already tried.  That's why I started coming here so that I could maybe find a way to do more, but I see that you will never believe in my sincerity no matter what I say. I guess I'm back to trying it on my own again.


"





Are you kidding me?  You expected abused kids to confide in *you*?  One of (to them) the enemy?



Suuuuure you're "the nice guard."  You're their old friend old buddy old pal who is going to blunder around in your hopeless naivete and get *their* asses beat into the ground and worse.



When *your* naivete gets somebody horribly, horribly retaliated against *it won't be you*.  They know that.  They know that full well.



That you have to ask them or prod them to see *if* abuse is going on tells them everything they need to know about you----that you're a naive effing fool who is going to blunder around and get *them* hurt worse and then let yourself off the hook for it (or, more likely, not even notice it happened) because of your "good intentions."



The only right thing to do is to quit being complicit in their abuse by stopping working there.



The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.



When you work for bad people who do bad things, they *use* you---they use your well meaning, innocent naivete as a front, they make sure that people checking them out either encounter the really slick liars or you.  People encountering you will feel that you're honest and well meaning and will, on the basis of meeting you, come to the completely false conclusion that it's a safe place to leave their kid.



People like you working for them is the only thing that makes it possible for them to stay in business.  Without people like you in it, their whole con would fall apart.



You think people here just post on Fornits and that's all we do?



I'm an author.  I pass the truth along to my readers---the truth that behavior modification facilities are terrible places to put children and are terribly unsafe---particularly for children with mental health problems like cutting, depression, bipolar disorder, or borderline personality disorder.



This week, I also passed the truth along to my pshrink, who has a local radio show.  I gave him the name of the book _Help At Any Cost_ and went over the highlights of the red flags against these places.



A lot of people on Fornits are often surprised by my insistence that the blanket stopping of the kids' mail is horrible, dangerous, ominous, and highly unethical.  For a licensed clinical psychologist or licensed psychiatrist, it's one of the biggest red flags I can say about these places, and one of the easiest to verify.



One of the first things they teach about ethics in the beginning abnormal psychology classes is that inpatient hospitals, facilities, whatever, must not and may not ethically stop patients' mail *except* when a patient's own personal doctor decides, for a very limited time, that getting or sending certain letters would hurt the patient.  The usual examples are where the patient is threatening or stalking someone, or some of the patient's obnoxious relatives are sending horrible, abusive letters haranguing him, or are sending him martyred guilt trips and playing destructive head games on him.



When I tell any psychology or psychiatry professional that these places stop the patients' mail across the board, as a blanket policy, while the patient is on "level 1" or the equivalent---that is, until the patient begins to be compliant about saying what the facility wants them to say....  When I tell licensed professionals in the field about that, every red flag they have goes off immediately.



So my doctor immediately knew exactly what these places were like. Just from knowing about the mail, he could pretty much infer the rest.  Messing with the patients' mail outside those very narrow and specific guidelines is such an ethics no-no.  



How can I explain it so that you'll understand?  Okay, put it like this.  If you told me a lawyer got drunk at lunch with you and told you all the private business of one of his clients, that's all you'd have to tell me about that lawyer.  If you told me a Catholic Priest went and told a husband his wife had said in confession that she was having an affair, that's all you'd have to tell me about that Priest.  I'd know that lawyer and priest were shamelessly unethical SOBs.



Screwing around with an institutionalized person's mail, outside of those very narrow and specific guidelines, or stretching those guidelines a lot but saying you're still within them------that is so taboo that when you hear a place is doing it, that is absolutely all a decent professional needs to know about a place to know they're shamelessly unethical SOBs.



You're like the law clerk for the lawyer who drunkenly shares his clients' privileged information all over town.  When people think ill of you for working for "that guy" if you could get another job, they're right.  Whether you see it or not, they're right.



When you continue to work for someone once you know they have serious ethics problems, you taint yourself with their lack of ethics, because they're getting their money unethically, and you're feeding at that trough.  Whether you get paid well or a pittance doesn't matter----your bills are getting paid off of that unethical behavior.



Exit Plan has told us many of the horrible things SCL does.  Taking the tainted money they take in is how you pay your bills.



You can tell yourself it's a pittance, you can tell yourself your intentions are good, you can ask what else can you do and rationalize it all you want.



People who do horrible things *usually* manage to rationalize it away and come up with a bazillion empty "reasons" why what they're doing is only what they have to do, from the best of intentions.



So anyway, I told a psychiatrist with a mental health radio show about the "troubled teen" scam and how dangerous it is, and gave him the title of Help at Any Cost---which is a good starting place for someone first learning about this horror.



His listenership is exactly the target market for this industry.  Middle-class, mostly white, middle aged parents who are worried about their teenagers.



He'll be able to do a far better job than I would at warning parents away from the scam, and drawing the distinction between the Behavior Modification Program scams versus the real, ethical, medical model, inpatient care for the few patients who are are imminently dangerous to themselves or others and are in dire need of a short term hospitalization to get stabilized.



Sending your child to a facility that routinely stops the mail for all of the incoming kids, for *any* length of time, is like sending your best friend to a divorce attorney who sleeps with his clients.



The scum you see floating on the top merely hints at the corruption underneath those waters.



When you work for viral scum, you get infected.



Julie"

You spout off like you're so intelligent, but you didn't bother to read that I NO LONGER WORK THERE you dumb ass!  It must be so exciting for you to go on and on calling me a naive because I was trying to do something I thought was good.  Wow, maybe I'm not a big time "author" like you Julie, but I was trying to do something to help.  Maybe it was the right thing and then again maybe it wasn't, but that's not for you to decide.

As for the girls in my family not saying anything because they were afraid they'd get in trouble, some of them have actually gotten a hold of me to tell me stuff.  Since I NO LONGER WORK THERE they are keeping in contact with me other ways and I've been able to get some info, with their permission, to give to CPS.

Again, if you actually bothered to read my post, you'd see that I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT PLACE ACTUALLY WAS UNTIL I WENT TO WORK THERE. When I realized what was happening I was going to quit immediately.  I didn't need the job to "pay my bills" as you put it.  I was contacted by another staff person out there who was already working with CPS and she asked me to help out.  Was I wrong to stay working out there as you said I was...NO!  Why is it so hard for you to understand that I was trying to help the only way I could.  According to you I should have quit and started writing letters and attending protest, but don't you think that having a better insite into the workings of the place and getting as much info as possible was better?

Because the other staff person and myself stayed on longer we were able to get information for a parent that was going to file a lawsuit against SCL, so even though you think I'm an idiot and naieve for staying, it actually helped someone, so you can go to hell if you don't like the way I handled it Ms. Author.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

You post this quote and then you damn me for trying to do something, make up your mind!  I may not be an "author" who can pass info on to a radio shrink, but I was doing the best with the info and resources I had.  I was able to contact a few parents at different times and encourage them to check things out further.  I had to be careful what I said because I had heard they listen in on the phones.

You try to make me out to be some evil person out to hurt the kids there because I might get them "retaliated" against.  Do you actually think I would have done that on purpose?  I never tried to trick them or coerce them in anyway to tell me what was going on.  I just asked questions and if they wanted to tell me anything then they would.  I would also not screen their mail like I was told to do, because I disagreed with the whole withholding mail shit.  

Why is it that your way of handling things is the only right way to do it?  What makes you so much better at it than me?  Like I said I WAS TRYING TO HELP AND DO SOMETHING TO STOP WHAT I SAW.  If you don't like the way I handled it then that's your problem.  Maybe I'm not as well versed as you and maybe I haven't expressed myself as well, but we all can't be big time authors.  Some of us are just normal people trying to help in whatever way they can.


[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-30 11:26 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #1183 on: March 29, 2006, 11:23:00 AM »
Dang, I need to get a log on so I can edit.

I'm just too outraged at these facilities and what they do to say anything (to anybody) off the cuff without letting it sit for a few minutes and reading it again.

The image of lines of kids trudging along in shoelace-less sneakers, in the cold, just tears me up so much I have trouble not going ballistic every time the subject comes up.

The daily living conditions are abusive in and of themselves.  That's why I can't read "staff" and "didn't personally see abuse" in the same post without just losing it.

I get that you're sincere, anon.  I do.  I just wish that you could get that what you saw every day is abuse.

Julie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

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« Reply #1184 on: March 29, 2006, 11:46:00 AM »
I for one, would like you to stick around ANON. I will try not to give you too hard of a time! It's hard sometimes because HELLO didn't you think it was a little odd how they were running things in general? Didn't you think it was a little harsh? I mean, maybe you didn't see students getting beat, those were always things that I am sure were done more privately because they are not stupid. But, the emotional abuse is pretty obvious. As a staff member, I know you could see that. From day 1, not day 2, 3, 1 week, 1 month, etc. from the very start. So, naturally I can't help but wonder what kind of person are you?

As for Exit Plan, if I were closer to you in distance, I would give you a big hug. It pains me to read that you're shaking out there somewhere. Just know I am sending you a long distance hug.

I am thankful we have a place we can all talk. We are learning from one another. I just wish we could do something more about it, so we can make it stop. I don't want to be on here 5 years from now, and have the next generation coming on here posting the same types of things we are posting. That would be a shame.

Gotta go!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
f you were never in a program, or a parent of a child in a program, then you have no business posting here.