Losers!

[Anonymous]

Why send them to a 'facility' at all? Unless they are being sent to a psychiatric hospital with trained staff, what's the point other than paying someone to babysit your kid away from your home and away from temptation? If that is the goal, why not send them to study abroad for a semester? Or how about a volunteer vacation of some sort, building houses in Africa, helping Guetamalan orphan's read English, whatever. I think more out of the box solutions are needed. I think the kid's age and behavior show us usually they want independence, challenges and something new. You can't treat a teen like a baby until they reach 18 like WWASP does. If I was spending that kind of cash, I'd find a GREAT volunteer situation, or something like that. But most importantly, something the teen agrees on. With the amount of money these program's cost, this would be a ready option. And shit, this might actually HELP your teen in the future instead of putting them farther and farther behind their peers when it comes to culture, knowledge and wisdom.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-06 07:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-06 06:24:00, Anonymous wrote:


"************"And for the record, those who are saying that jail would have been better than an RTC, for some I believe that is true. However, I think that you all should take a long hard look at the statistics of folks who are incarcerated."








For the record, data from RTC patients shows higher recidivism than jail, as well as long-lasting psychological problems.  So, just for the record, your kid is better off in juvie than an RTC.





Do your research FIRST, then cite statistics..."

Not sure I believe you,  I have been looking for supportive data from RTC's, Number Graduated, number returned, gone onto college etc. Could you tell me where you got your information?

Thanks

"

What you're seeing isn't "data."  That's the problem.  Your "data" is survey statistics released by programs.  That's hardly any kind of study.  It's an opinion poll given to a choice sample hand picked by the institution.  That's how thet arrive at numbers like "98% Success Rate!"  

I challenge you to cite one SINGLE longitudinal scientific study of RTC populations.  I'd like to see a real, unbiased study that supports "programs."

[Anotherscaredmom]

I love that idea but I don't have the money.  I am trying to get the school district to pay for an RTC and that's a fight in itself.  Trying to get them to pay for him to study abroad is a no go.

[Anonymous]

Send them abroad for a semester? Brilliant. So he can get fucked up with his buddies in Madrid and end up in Spanish jail.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-12-06 09:36:00, famjaztique wrote:

"I love that idea but I don't have the money.  I am trying to get the school district to pay for an RTC and that's a fight in itself.  Trying to get them to pay for him to study abroad is a no go.

"

Concerns about residential care primarily relate to criteria for admission; inconsistency of community-based treatment established in the 1980s; the costliness of such services (Friedman & Street, 1985); the risks of treatment, including failure to learn behavior needed in the community; the possibility of trauma associated with the separation from the family; difficulty reentering the family or even abandonment by the family; victimization by RTC staff; and learning of antisocial or bizarre behavior from intensive exposure to other disturbed children (Barker, 1998). These concerns are discussed below.

In the past, admission to an RTC has been justified on the basis of community protection, child protection, and benefits of residential treatment per se (Barker, 1982). However, none of these justifications have stood up to research scrutiny. In particular, youth who display seriously violent and aggressive behavior do not appear to improve in such settings, according to limited evidence (Joshi & Rosenberg, 1997).

http://www.enterthefreudianslip.com/sur ... ential.htm

_________________________________________________
Ok, I'm ready.  Show me your "positive research" on RTC's.  I hope it's some real research and not just more pro-program bias that ruins so many people's credibility in these discussions...

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-06 06:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"************"And for the record, those who are saying that jail would have been better than an RTC, for some I believe that is true. However, I think that you all should take a long hard look at the statistics of folks who are incarcerated."





For the record, data from RTC patients shows higher recidivism than jail, as well as long-lasting psychological problems.  So, just for the record, your kid is better off in juvie than an RTC.



Do your research FIRST, then cite statistics..."

What you're seeing isn't "data." That's the problem. Your "data" is survey statistics released by programs. That's hardly any kind of study. It's an opinion poll given to a choice sample hand picked by the institution. That's how thet arrive at numbers like "98% Success Rate!"

I challenge you to cite one SINGLE longitudinal scientific study of RTC populations. I'd like to see a real, unbiased study that supports "programs."

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-06 09:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-06 09:36:00, famjaztique wrote:


"I love that idea but I don't have the money.  I am trying to get the school district to pay for an RTC and that's a fight in itself.  Trying to get them to pay for him to study abroad is a no go.


"

Concerns about residential care primarily relate to criteria for admission; inconsistency of community-based treatment established in the 1980s; the costliness of such services (Friedman & Street, 1985); the risks of treatment, including failure to learn behavior needed in the community; the possibility of trauma associated with the separation from the family; difficulty reentering the family or even abandonment by the family; victimization by RTC staff; and learning of antisocial or bizarre behavior from intensive exposure to other disturbed children (Barker, 1998). These concerns are discussed below.



In the past, admission to an RTC has been justified on the basis of community protection, child protection, and benefits of residential treatment per se (Barker, 1982). However, none of these justifications have stood up to research scrutiny. In particular, youth who display seriously violent and aggressive behavior do not appear to improve in such settings, according to limited evidence (Joshi & Rosenberg, 1997).



http://www.enterthefreudianslip.com/sur ... ential.htm



_________________________________________________

Ok, I'm ready.  Show me your "positive research" on RTC's.  I hope it's some real research and not just more pro-program bias that ruins so many people's credibility in these discussions...



"

What you sited here are data from Treatment centers for children with "severe mental disorders".  I dont think the majority of the people here are dealing wiht kids at that level.  The kids you speak of are under the custody of the state for mental disorders.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-12-06 09:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Send them abroad for a semester? Brilliant. So he can get fucked up with his buddies in Madrid and end up in Spanish jail. "

If you have or ever have kids, I pity them.  :cry:

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-06 09:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-12-06 09:36:00, famjaztique wrote:


"I love that idea but I don't have the money.  I am trying to get the school district to pay for an RTC and that's a fight in itself.  Trying to get them to pay for him to study abroad is a no go.


"

Concerns about residential care primarily relate to criteria for admission; inconsistency of community-based treatment established in the 1980s; the costliness of such services (Friedman & Street, 1985); the risks of treatment, including failure to learn behavior needed in the community; the possibility of trauma associated with the separation from the family; difficulty reentering the family or even abandonment by the family; victimization by RTC staff; and learning of antisocial or bizarre behavior from intensive exposure to other disturbed children (Barker, 1998). These concerns are discussed below.



In the past, admission to an RTC has been justified on the basis of community protection, child protection, and benefits of residential treatment per se (Barker, 1982). However, none of these justifications have stood up to research scrutiny. In particular, youth who display seriously violent and aggressive behavior do not appear to improve in such settings, according to limited evidence (Joshi & Rosenberg, 1997).



http://www.enterthefreudianslip.com/sur ... ential.htm



_________________________________________________

Ok, I'm ready.  Show me your "positive research" on RTC's.  I hope it's some real research and not just more pro-program bias that ruins so many people's credibility in these discussions...



"

Yes, I read that long ago.  It really doesnt apply to the facilities we are talking about here.  I can give you a link to someone who spent a few years at an RTC in Massachusetts interviewing and living with the kids thru their journey from beginning to end.  It is a fascinating study on the treatment centers strengths and weaknesses.
Its a good read for those who are interested in a journalists point of view.

http://www.davemarcus.com/

[Anonymous]

WWASP is not an RTC, they will tell you this. They are a 'behavior modification' facility. They can't advertise they are treatment (RTC) but for some reason parents still think they will receive treatment. (or don't care???)

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-06 09:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Why send them to a 'facility' at all? Unless they are being sent to a psychiatric hospital with trained staff, what's the point other than paying someone to babysit your kid away from your home and away from temptation? If that is the goal, why not send them to study abroad for a semester? Or how about a volunteer vacation of some sort, building houses in Africa, helping Guetamalan orphan's read English, whatever. I think more out of the box solutions are needed. I think the kid's age and behavior show us usually they want independence, challenges and something new. You can't treat a teen like a baby until they reach 18 like WWASP does. If I was spending that kind of cash, I'd find a GREAT volunteer situation, or something like that. But most importantly, something the teen agrees on. With the amount of money these program's cost, this would be a ready option. And shit, this might actually HELP your teen in the future instead of putting them farther and farther behind their peers when it comes to culture, knowledge and wisdom.   "

I agree, that is why the RTC is a last resort.  I checked into other programs like outreach and building houses in Africa,teaching orphans how to read.  But most of the programs want letters from the school they are attending (teachers) stating the child is a student in "good standing", is independent and capable of self study during his time abroad etc.  Most of the kids who are entering RTC are not doing well academically and dont function well independently.  They typically benefit from more structure vs less (which is what most of the overseas programs have)

[CCM girl 1989]

I don't agree on sending your child abroad for a semester. Not smart. I think whatever facility is chosen for him, needs to be close to home. That's if it needs to happen at all!!!! I think in only extreme cases that it does. A lot of parents overreact, they just need to relax a little, and let teenagers be teenagers. Just go get yourselves a great therapist, and work it out! We can only do so much here, but we always want to be here for those of you parents who are looking for insight on what these programs are actually like, because we have experienced them first hand. Also, there are a lot of you parents out there who had there kids sent to WWASP facilities, or others like them, and can offer insight about your experiences. We don't offer any kind of incentives here, we just do it out of the goodness in our hearts, because WE CARE!!!!  :smile:

[TheWho]

On 2005-12-06 10:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"WWASP is not an RTC, they will tell you this. They are a 'behavior modification' facility. They can't advertise they are treatment (RTC) but for some reason parents still think they will receive treatment. (or don't care???)"

Sure, but parents dont need to choose WWASP, there are plenty of others to choose from depending on their childs needs.

[Anotherscaredmom]

Ok, so I get it.  RTC's are evil.  And they don't work, especially for violent or aggressive kids.  It would be really great if there was something that DID work.

[Anotherscaredmom]

Also, I know that none of you can give me a magic solution.  This, in a round about way, is what is getting me through the days right now.  This is what parents do when they love their children.  They keep looking for solutions.  My son's case is getting to the point of extreme.  And I'm trying to weigh very carefully what the next steps are.