The Things Parents Do

[Anonymous]

Here ya go. Parent implimenting her own 'program'.
Parental humiliation appears to work 'just' as well as program.

Mom Makes Daughter Stand on Street Corner By SEAN MURPHY, Associated Press Writer
Wed Nov 16, 2:14 PM ET

EDMOND, Okla. - Tasha Henderson got tired of her 14-year-old daughter's poor grades, her chronic lateness to class and her talking back to her teachers, so she decided to teach the girl a lesson.
 
She made Coretha stand at a busy Oklahoma City intersection Nov. 4 with a cardboard sign that read: "I don't do my homework and I act up in school, so my parents are preparing me for my future. Will work for food."

"This may not work. I'm not a professional," said Henderson, a 34-year-old mother of three. "But I felt I owed it to my child to at least try."

In fact, Henderson has seen a turnaround in her daughter's behavior in the past week and a half. But the punishment prompted letters and calls to talk radio from people either praising the woman or blasting her for publicly humiliating her daughter.

"The parents of that girl need more education than she does if they can't see that the worst scenario in this case is to kill their daughter psychologically," Suzanne Ball said in a letter to The Oklahoman.

Marvin Lyle, 52, said in an interview: "I don't see anything wrong with it. I see the other extreme where parents don't care what the kids do, and at least she wants to help her kid."

Coretha has been getting C's and D's as a freshman at Edmond Memorial High in this well-to-do Oklahoma City suburb. Edmond Memorial is considered one of the top high schools in the state in academics.

While Henderson stood next to her daughter at the intersection, a passing motorist called police with a report of psychological abuse, and an Oklahoma City police officer took a report. Mother and daughter were asked to leave after about an hour, and no citation was issued. But the report was forwarded to the state Department of Human Services.

"There wasn't any criminal act involved that the officer could see that would require any criminal investigation," Master Sgt. Charles Phillips said. "DHS may follow up."

DHS spokesman Doug Doe would not comment on whether an investigation was opened, but suggested such a case would probably not be a high priority.

Tasha Henderson said her daughter's attendance has been perfect and her behavior has been better since the incident.

Coretha, a soft-spoken girl, acknowledged the punishment was humiliating but said it got her attention. "I won't talk back," she said quietly, hanging her head.

She already has been forced by her parents to give up basketball and track because of slipping grades, and said she hopes to improve in school so she can play next year.

Donald Wertlieb, a professor of child development at the Eliot-Pearson Department of Child Development at Tufts University, warned that such punishment could do extreme emotional damage. He said rewarding positive behavior is more effective.

"The trick is to catch them being good," he said. "It sounds like this mother has not had a chance to catch her child being good or is so upset over seeing her be bad, that's where the focus is."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051116/ap_ ... _on_corner

[Anonymous]

thats something my dad would have done and he was pretty fucked up. that shit is sick. public humiliation is abuse.

[Anonymous]

What the Hell is wrong with these people. I raised 5 kids through their teen years, and believe me, none of them were easy, some worse than others. I read these posts and absolutely cannot imagine what goes through these parent's minds. This may be over-simplifying things, but kids learn how to treat others by the way their parents treat them...this lesson goes on from birth. If parents show respect for their child's feelings, ideas and opinions, the child will more than likely enter his or her terrible teens with enough self esteem and pleasant memories to want to avoid permanently alienating their parents. This doesn't mean that they won't talk back, argue about everything, try drugs, sex, alcohol, etc., just as their parents did, but most of them will avoid becoming addicts, pregnant or delinquents...just as their parents did. Perhaps it comes down to the obsession with being perfect, and having imperfect kids is just not acceptable. I think it would be awesome if all the perfect parents who were perfect kids would post their names on this forum and let us know which perfect program their child was sent to. If you are wondering why I am even here, I have a close relative in a program, and have learned enough through surfing the subject, visiting this forum and others, to be terrified for the poor child.

[Anonymous]

Welcome! Thanks for the words of wisdom, which are shared by many regulars here.
Hope your relative comes out unscathed. Perhaps you'll have the opportunity to share some wisdom with him/her at some point. It seems to be helpful for them to hear that someone understands and sees it for what it is/was. The acknowledgment and validation seem to be very useful things to offer. Gives them hope that there are still some sane adults in the world- it's not totally hopeless yet. Are we the minority?

[Anonymous]

I don't necessarily think we are a minority, the average sane person has maybe heard of these programs, but knows nothing about what really goes on behind the closed doors. They visualize a bunch of unwashed, drug addicted, gang affiliated delinquents who need to be kept away from society. What they don't realize is that most of the kids who get sent away are from upper middle class homes, many of them are gifted intellectually and have never been anywhere near a gang. Some have experimented with drugs and others have done little more than talk back to their parents and teachers. I personally believe that it's the parents who need a program. They have fed and clothed the child since birth, but have never taken the time to get to know him or her. They are strangers living under the same roof, and then all of a sudden their baby is bigger than they are, has opinions, passions and dreams they disagree with. The baby is now a thinking person, not just a cute little possession to be shuttled off to the nanny or babysitter. Most of these parents are used to getting their own way in life, they are successful financially and have been able to control others to get where they are. Suddenly they have met their match, the child been observing their behavior since birth, and learned all of their tricks. He or she has become a master at manipulating others, can be completely deceptive, self centered and stubborn. The parents are scared, helpless, clueless and ripe for program propaganda. They are told everything they want to hear, they are good parents with a bad kid. Amazingly, no one ever seems to question how the kid got so bad, or where they were for the past 13 or 14 years while this terrible transition was taking place!

[CCM girl 1989]

I happened to read this article earlier this morning before I read this post. I was appalled that a parent would do this to a child! I am thankful that a passing motorist called authorities.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-17 08:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I don't necessarily think we are a minority, the average sane person has maybe heard of these programs, but knows nothing about what really goes on behind the closed doors. They visualize a bunch of unwashed, drug addicted, gang affiliated delinquents who need to be kept away from society. What they don't realize is that most of the kids who get sent away are from upper middle class homes, many of them are gifted intellectually and have never been anywhere near a gang. Some have experimented with drugs and others have done little more than talk back to their parents and teachers. I personally believe that it's the parents who need a program. They have fed and clothed the child since birth, but have never taken the time to get to know him or her. They are strangers living under the same roof, and then all of a sudden their baby is bigger than they are, has opinions, passions and dreams they disagree with. The baby is now a thinking person, not just a cute little possession to be shuttled off to the nanny or babysitter. Most of these parents are used to getting their own way in life, they are successful financially and have been able to control others to get where they are. Suddenly they have met their match, the child been observing their behavior since birth, and learned all of their tricks. He or she has become a master at manipulating others, can be completely deceptive, self centered and stubborn. The parents are scared, helpless, clueless and ripe for program propaganda. They are told everything they want to hear, they are good parents with a bad kid. Amazingly, no one ever seems to question how the kid got so bad, or where they were for the past 13 or 14 years while this terrible transition was taking place! "

I guess it's hard to see clearly when your head is up your ass. So you get it right that these kids might come from upper middle class--although many are middle class-- and that most aren't into gang activity (although realistically, most kids in America could find a gang to join if they wanted). But you are pretty ignorant about what the parents are thinking, and how the programs work.

You swallow the notion that, if you're financially successful, you must be bad--not to mention controlling and stupid. If you have created success in your life, then you obviously consider kids possessions, and went through things like labor and those joyous years of diapers, nursing, etc., just so you could show them off.

Making middle class parents the villains goes hand in hand with the ridiculous idea that genuine social problems are always a product of poverty. So these kids couldn't possibly need real intervention because hey, they have money, what the fuck are they complaining about?

It's a fashionable but destructive social engineering position. It also perpetuates problems in order to keep funding ineffective educational and social approaches, playing the heartstrings of nitwits like you.

But your true idiocy is in your assumption that programs tell parents they're wonderful and the kids are bad, and your idea that no one looks at how the family got where it is. I'd suggest pulling your head out of your ass and gathering some facts.

 :silly:

[Anonymous]

You are mighty defensive, maybe you are one of those people anon is talking about. In any case, you missed the point, which is kids don't get screwed up by themselves. No one is implying that middle class kids don't need help, the point is that they, along with their parents,   need help from trained professionals, not from abusive, uneducated guards. They do not need to be rejected by their families and warehoused in kiddie penal colonies out in the middle of nowhere. Maybe you are the one who needs to do some research and find out what the experts have to say about the subject. Might I suggest you google ASTART, an organization composed of mental health experts who are researching the long term effects of residential programs and trying to come up with safe alternatives.

[Antigen]

You're right, no one's implying it. I'm stating it outright. Not that there are not kids who could benefit from the good council of a well educated, compassionate profrssional. Obviously, there are.

But MOST kids are not abnormal. You get that, don't you? Most of the kids who land up in these places would be FAR better off w/o any intervention at all. They just need to grow up and their parents need to come to grips w/ the reality that parenting is not for the faint of heart.

May your days be joyously challenging and your words artfully true.
--Ginger Warbis

[Anonymous]

Look at this... uh, 'gem' I found on freenet on the whole idea of humiliation to make a kid do what you want:

------------------- How To Punish And Humiliate Your child ------------------
When it comes to child punishment, there are many schools of thought. I have
found that humiliating punishments hit the right spot in the child mind and are
very effective at fighting bad behaviour. This particular punishment relies on
enema retention.
Mix 4 or 5 tablespoons of baking soda into about 1 quart of warm water (about
105 degrees), then slowly administer it to your child, massaging his abdomen
and remembering him what he has done wrong. Don't be harsh, in this phase you
want to be gentle and make your child relax. Warm baking soda enema isn't
painful or too discomforting in the first minutes.
Then make your child stand and tell him to keep his hands over his head, while
retaining the enema. Tell him that the procedure cannot be interrupted and if
he leaks water from his anus he will be spanked and the procedure repeated.
Keep him in this position for at least 10/15 minutes.
Meanwhile, get another enema bulb ready, filled with 1 glass of cold white
vinegar. You will need an enema syringe or an enema bulb for this to work. The
classic enema bag isn't fast enough for this purpose. You may want to prepare
the bulb before the whole procedure and keep it in the refrigerator for about
an hour. 40 degrees is an optimal temperature.
When your child is ready, tell him he will get another enema and that if he is
able to keep it inside for another 10 minutes his punishment will be over. Have
him get on all fours with the chest to the floor and his butt raised in the
air. Insert the tip of the bulb in his butt and make him ask for forgiveness.
He must use a rather long sentence, just "I'm sorry" won't do. In the middle of
the sentence, quickly squeeze the bulb and empty it in his rectum. You must be
really quick.
He will feel immediate cramping and he may not be able to retain the water. If
he isn't, spank him, telling him he isn't even able to control his bowels and
repeat the procedure the following day until he is able to. He must retain it
for another 10 minutes, then you will allow him to sit on the toilet to empty
himself.
This procedure will definitely teach your child how to behave, don't use it too
often though, for it is quite irritating to the colon. He will be constantly
farting for the following 2 or 3 days.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wish I was kidding.  :roll:

[Anonymous]

A link please

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-17 17:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You are mighty defensive, maybe you are one of those people anon is talking about. In any case, you missed the point, which is kids don't get screwed up by themselves. No one is implying that middle class kids don't need help, the point is that they, along with their parents,   need help from trained professionals, not from abusive, uneducated guards. They do not need to be rejected by their families and warehoused in kiddie penal colonies out in the middle of nowhere. Maybe you are the one who needs to do some research and find out what the experts have to say about the subject. Might I suggest you google ASTART, an organization composed of mental health experts who are researching the long term effects of residential programs and trying to come up with safe alternatives.  "

Assuming again. Give me numbers here and show documentation. I can tell you that I know personally most of the programs in the state of Montana use trained professionals: licensed and certified therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, and social workers.

And while programs have a vested interest in serving families, ASTART has a vested interest in spreading misinformation. They're there specifically to network all the goofballs who think programs are the devil. They aren't going to tell the truth about how effective progreams are for all those kids that the states have failed to serve. ASTART is not researching; they are collecting and dissemintating propaganda.

[The Liger]

Holy...crap. ::jawdrop::

[Anonymous]

***Give me numbers here and show documentation.

Like the numbers of 'success' stories? There is no documentation because the industry knows it wouldn't be in their financial interest to let those statistics out publicly.

However, a few 'studies/polls' have been conducted.
Here's one conducted inside the industry. Bottomline, programs leave alot to be desired and appear to 'work' primarily because they hold kids incommunicado from the rest of the world until they mature, or not.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#50807

And significant research indicating that the aggregation of distressed teens and the use of BM are not only undesirable but could be detrimental.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#87186

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-21 16:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"***Give me numbers here and show documentation.



Like the numbers of 'success' stories? There is no documentation because the industry knows it wouldn't be in their financial interest to let those statistics out publicly.



However, a few 'studies/polls' have been conducted.

Here's one conducted inside the industry. Bottomline, programs leave alot to be desired and appear to 'work' primarily because they hold kids incommunicado from the rest of the world until they mature, or not.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#50807



And significant research indicating that the aggregation of distressed teens and the use of BM are not only undesirable but could be detrimental.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#87186

"

Masterful avoidance of the issue. You claimed the programs are run by guards, and not by professionals. Focus, here. Cite your sources for your claims about who does what.

Much of the available research is shaky for a lot of reasons---not the least of which is the fact that many "researchers" make the same false assumptions you do. For instance, I could conduct a study of the benefits of ballet companies, but if I just assume they make dancers wear tap shoes, I'm going to come up with correspondingly weird results.

In a real life example, listen as everyone crows about the NIH claiming programs don't work. Then read the real report (NOT "STUDY") and catch how it assumes the programs are treating kids for violence--not the case for most programs--and it assumes most of the kids are not drug users. It also assumes all kinds of smaller issues about how kids are housed and treated.

Many of the "studies" were conducted only through self-reporting--seldom considered reliable. Others were conducted by players like "Woodbury Reports," or other parties that stand to profit directly from skewed results. Overall, there are wildly divergent claims about results.

Add to that the fact that in the end, the results depend entirely on the choices of the person involved, and it's a little tough to support claims about results either way. The only good test is to determine if the program really offers what it promises, whether that's  a certain structure, therapy, or approach. Nothing works for everyone.

We can prove or disprove FACTS--who runs them, who serves the kids, what the behavior plan consists of, etc.  So have at it. Do you have any real facts about any of this?