Belmont Report and Ethics

[Anonymous]

I read somewhere or heard it that Straight was doing some kind of national testing as using it's patients as it's subjects.

Check out the Belmont Report and the IRB's requirements/laws on the ethical treatment of subjects in testing.

'nuff said.

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-11-06 23:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I read somewhere or heard it that Straight was doing some kind of national testing as using it's patients as it's subjects.

Can you or anyone else tell me what is written about Straight/gov testing using Straight patients as test subjects?

I keep hearing this, that we were some kind of govt experiement, but have come across nothing yet that mentions this.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-07 09:22:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:

"

On 2005-11-06 23:17:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I read somewhere or heard it that Straight was doing some kind of national testing as using it's patients as it's subjects.

Can you or anyone else tell me what is written about Straight/gov testing using Straight patients as test subjects?



I keep hearing this, that we were some kind of govt experiement, but have come across nothing yet that mentions this. "

NonConformist, I wrote the first post here last night and your reasons are the same reasons I was writing it to start. I am with you. I had read somewhere that some of the intake applications are all about free signature for testing of the patient.

See, the only problem with forced signatures is that under the Belmont Reports, now under civil laws, those types of unethical behaviour can get someone in trouble alot. But they did it from what I understand.

Now if I could only find this.

I really wish I could find a copy of the Application itself.

Hey Wes, you got any intake applications runnin around anywheres???

Under Ethical Treatment of Biological Test Patients the patient who is being tested on must be in full awareness of beginning to end of test, they must not be coerced, and also that patient being tested on MUST be allowed to leave at any time and the whole fucking test HAS to be Voluntary. And there's a whole bunch of other nifty stuff that was brought into laws like this around 1970 that involve pure informed consent and non force. Just look up the Belmont Report. I would really like to have a copy of the application to compare to the Belmont Report. I wonder if there would be some shit there that has no statute of limitations on it when it comes to testing on folks and forced signatures.

I know I've read somewhere that alot of what Straight was doing was testing on patients, don't quote me just yet - but that is why I brought all this up in the first place. What kind of sampling or controlled tests on dependent and independent groups and placebo crap they may have been doing I really couldn't tell you at all. But it boggles the mind. See, those kinds of things would have to be on file somewheres if there were lawsuits. Cos' in future there may be more lawsuits. I'm sure someone somewhere has some kind of application from intakes. I can't remember much of my intake at all, its still a blur.

I sure wish ol' Wes or someone with files could shed some light on this subject please. Please?

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-11-07 20:12:00, Anonymous wrote:

On 2005-11-07 09:22:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:

On 2005-11-06 23:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I read somewhere or heard it that Straight was doing some kind of national testing as using it's patients as it's subjects.

Can you or anyone else tell me what is written about Straight/gov testing using Straight patients as test subjects?
I keep hearing this, that we were some kind of govt experiement, but have come across nothing yet that mentions this."

NonConformist, I wrote the first post here last night and your reasons are the same reasons I was writing it to start. I am with you. I had read somewhere that some of the intake applications are all about free signature for testing of the patient.

See, the only problem with forced signatures is that under the Belmont Reports, now under civil laws, those types of unethical behaviour can get someone in trouble alot. But they did it from what I understand.

Now if I could only find this.

I really wish I could find a copy of the Application itself.

Hey Wes, you got any intake applications runnin around anywheres???

Under Ethical Treatment of Biological Test Patients the patient who is being tested on must be in full awareness of beginning to end of test, they must not be coerced, and also that patient being tested on MUST be allowed to leave at any time and the whole fucking test HAS to be Voluntary. And there's a whole bunch of other nifty stuff that was brought into laws like this around 1970 that involve pure informed consent and non force. Just look up the Belmont Report. I would really like to have a copy of the application to compare to the Belmont Report. I wonder if there would be some shit there that has no statute of limitations on it when it comes to testing on folks and forced signatures.

I know I've read somewhere that alot of what Straight was doing was testing on patients, don't quote me just yet - but that is why I brought all this up in the first place. What kind of sampling or controlled tests on dependent and independent groups and placebo crap they may have been doing I really couldn't tell you at all. But it boggles the mind. See, those kinds of things would have to be on file somewheres if there were lawsuits. Cos' in future there may be more lawsuits. I'm sure someone somewhere has some kind of application from intakes. I can't remember much of my intake at all, its still a blur.

I sure wish ol' Wes or someone with files could shed some light on this subject please. Please?"

If this turns out to be true then I think that will push me over the edge. But being govt. test subjects does not seem like a stretch to me at all.

Hmmmmm.....I think none of us were every allowed to give informed consent....it seems like all of us were deceived....the 14 day lie, you are a druggie lie, etc., the list of lies is endless.

Please post any relevant docs or articles that supports straight clients as govt test subjects if you come across it.

[Antigen]

Here's some info on Straight and medical research.

http://thestraights.com/people/medical- ... search.htm

If you want the backstory, why not call up Dr. Richard Schwartz and make an appointment to talk w/ him about it?

If I am of the opinion that it is inexpedient to assign to the government the task of operating railroads, hotels, or mines, I am not an "enemy of the state" any more than I can be called an enemy of sulfuric acid because I am of the opinion that, useful though it may be for many purposes, it is not suitable either for drinking, or for washing one's hands.
http://www.mises.org/liberal/ch1sec7.asp' target='_new'>Ludwig Von Mises

[Antigen]

Anybody know how to get ahold of Donald Ian MacDonald these days?

We are students of words; we are shut up in schools and colleges and recitation rooms for ten or fifteen years and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-11-09 10:09:00, Antigen wrote:

"Here's some info on Straight and medical research.



http://thestraights.com/people/medical- ... search.htm



If you want the backstory, why not call up Dr. Richard Schwartz and make an appointment to talk w/ him about it?"

Oh my God....I think I am gonna be sick...........

[Antigen]

Don't be sick. Just understand that this is the quality of medical research the drug warriors hawk to justify their cruelty and their hunger for coercive control.

Just look into any of it and you'll find the same reeking, putrid pile of rotting bullshit promoted by the same relatively small band of sadistic lunatics.

Stop paying them and stop obeying them.

I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious -- unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind and keep them shut by force.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[Anonymous]

NCL, you may have some resources at your library there to look up published research... using "straight, inc." as keyword...

I wonder what the oversight agency is for human research ethics, does that Belmont Report say or does anyone know?

This is a good thing to look into, thanks to whomever brought it up. If it isn't too much trouble, please contact straightincarchives (at) yahoo.com as I wish to ask you a couple things. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Reading all that and being faced with the fact I was unknowingly a "test subject" under extreme duress by all the other abuses I endured at the hands of Straight Inc. makes me feel Hollow, like I don't really exist. I feel like I just woke up and am inside "the matrix"

I remember those questioneers, but I never understood where they came from or why I was forced to fill them out. I clearly remember I had NO CHOICE , I either filled out the papers or was harshly punished in front of the entire group, often ending in other teens forcing me to the floor, sitting on me for hours. I remember being coerced by staff as to "how I should answer". I had no idea until today I was used in any "research", however how  henious or false it was. I had no idea, untill today, that "results" were published about me. Results that clearly were false and effected by physical coercement. The dates and places those studies were done, I was there! I was there when they passed out that suicide poll.


I feel hollow, non existant, used, decieved, ill, enslaved, abused, damaged, disgusted, confused, displaced, and so much more I can not even find words for.

Any person who let this happen to us deserve to live in great shame with horrifying nightmares of all whom they abused. These people who did this to us deserve to be liable for all damage we suffered to this very day and beyond. We as the teens who endured all and any portion of this deserve Justice. Any person involved from the community on up to our goverment should be held accountable for altering/destroying thousands of lives forever.

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-11-09 11:05:00, Antigen wrote:

"Don't be sick. Just understand that this is the quality of medical research the drug warriors hawk to justify their cruelty and their hunger for coercive control."

That is exactly why it literally makes me sick, and the fact that so many people buy their propoganda lies. Its also sickening that our mental and emotional well being was fucked with, without our consent or knowledge, for the sake of generating "research" to support govt propoganda/lies.

"Just look into any of it and you'll find the same reeking, putrid pile of rotting bullshit promoted by the same relatively small band of sadistic lunatics."

I think your statement here is one for the quotes....couldnt have said it better myself. And that sadistic band of lunatics are at the highest levels of our govt lying to this country every day for profit.......that's just evil in my book.....

"Stop paying them and stop obeying them."

Fortunately they have never gotten a dime from me personally and I happen to be very disobedient at times, especially when I disagree with self appointed "authorities."

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-09 13:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"NCL, you may have some resources at your library there to look up published research... using "straight, inc." as keyword...



I wonder what the oversight agency is for human research ethics, does that Belmont Report say or does anyone know?



This is a good thing to look into, thanks to whomever brought it up. If it isn't too much trouble, please contact straightincarchives (at) yahoo.com as I wish to ask you a couple things. Thanks."

IRB holds that title. They made the Belmont Report. As long as you are not offering biological testing then you don't have to submit IRB reports to the IRB. If you're a piggyback company like KHK or the like today, old sampling and testing speaks on your behalf but not as far as doing any further biological testing. Bush probably makes it easier to get around IRB with this Faith Based Inits. But yeah, when it comes to testing - there are ethics. A.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone/everyone written to the ACLU descibing their story about Straight and asking for any guidence/information they could provide regarding Straight Inc?
I did even if just to report my experience to them.

[Nonconformistlaw]

On 2005-11-09 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Reading all that and being faced with the fact I was unknowingly a "test subject" under extreme duress by all the other abuses I endured at the hands of Straight Inc. makes me feel Hollow, like I don't really exist. I feel like I just woke up and am inside "the matrix"

I remember those questioneers, but I never understood where they came from or why I was forced to fill them out. I clearly remember I had NO CHOICE , I either filled out the papers or was harshly punished in front of the entire group, often ending in other teens forcing me to the floor, sitting on me for hours. I remember being coerced by staff as to "how I should answer". I had no idea until today I was used in any "research", however how  henious or false it was. I had no idea, untill today, that "results" were published about me. Results that clearly were false and effected by physical coercement. The dates and places those studies were done, I was there! I was there when they passed out that suicide poll.

I feel hollow, non existant, used, decieved, ill, enslaved, abused, damaged, disgusted, confused, displaced, and so much more I can not even find words for.

Any person who let this happen to us deserve to live in great shame with horrifying nightmares of all whom they abused. These people who did this to us deserve to be liable for all damage we suffered to this very day and beyond. We as the teens who endured all and any portion of this deserve Justice. Any person involved from the community on up to our goverment should be held accountable for altering/destroying thousands of lives forever."

In my extreme state of shock, all I could manage to say was this makes me sick(literally, my gut has been in knots ever since)...But you described almost word for word what had raced through my mind since reading about the govt. experiement today. I have one thing to add....I cannot believe this is my reality, our reality. Straight was horrid enough, this however....its just too damn much to cope with. Unfuckingbelievable but yet real. Talk about the Twilight Zone...and then some.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-11-09 19:26:00, Nonconformistlaw wrote:

"

On 2005-11-09 13:33:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Reading all that and being faced with the fact I was unknowingly a "test subject" under extreme duress by all the other abuses I endured at the hands of Straight Inc. makes me feel Hollow, like I don't really exist. I feel like I just woke up and am inside "the matrix"


I remember those questioneers, but I never understood where they came from or why I was forced to fill them out. I clearly remember I had NO CHOICE , I either filled out the papers or was harshly punished in front of the entire group, often ending in other teens forcing me to the floor, sitting on me for hours. I remember being coerced by staff as to "how I should answer". I had no idea until today I was used in any "research", however how  henious or false it was. I had no idea, untill today, that "results" were published about me. Results that clearly were false and effected by physical coercement. The dates and places those studies were done, I was there! I was there when they passed out that suicide poll.


I feel hollow, non existant, used, decieved, ill, enslaved, abused, damaged, disgusted, confused, displaced, and so much more I can not even find words for.


Any person who let this happen to us deserve to live in great shame with horrifying nightmares of all whom they abused. These people who did this to us deserve to be liable for all damage we suffered to this very day and beyond. We as the teens who endured all and any portion of this deserve Justice. Any person involved from the community on up to our goverment should be held accountable for altering/destroying thousands of lives forever."

In my extreme state of shock, all I could manage to say was this makes me sick(literally, my gut has been in knots ever since)...But you described almost word for word what had raced through my mind since reading about the govt. experiement today. I have one thing to add....I cannot believe this is my reality, our reality. Straight was horrid enough, this however....its just too damn much to cope with. Unfuckingbelievable but yet real. Talk about the Twilight Zone...and then some."

Not to sound like an idiot but could you paraphrase that report from Wes. I understood it to mean that we were not literally test subjects at Straight, but that mainly the SEED was the one required to have consent forms. That is to say that the only "consent form" I definitively remember signing would have been my intake form and the intake. Was that what would have been a coerced signature as per Wes's report. Perhaps I didn't catch what I was supposed to.