ABDUCTIONS

[Anonymous]

As I sit here reflecting on the past year and on all that I have learned, I find myself disheartened and basically bummed out.

I remember when I learned that Elizabeth Smart had been abducted from her bed and how unsettling that was. I followed that story on a daily basis, as I did the story of Polly Klass in California. She was taken from her bedroom when two friends were there during a sleepover.

Those two girls had very different outcomes. One was killed by her abductor and the other was spared because a consciencious police officer looked into Elizabeth's eyes, though her face was covered, and decided to investigate further. Even when she denied being Elizabeth Smart, he kept her there until her father arrived. It was her and she is back home, safe and sound.

I remember how helpless I felt, how horrible I thought it was that men would enter children's bedrooms to abduct them.

And then I learned something that would rock my world. Children and teenagers all over the country were being abducted from their beds in the middle of the night. The difference was that these children and teens were abducted at the direction of their parents.

Can you just imagine being in junior high school, or in high school, and to find a strange man in your bedroom in the middle of the night telling you to get up and to get dressed, you were going with him. And you knew you had to because you were warned if you did not you would be handcuffed, or worse, pepper sprayed. You saw the cuffs, you knew he was serious. You had no choice but to go.

Then, you get in the car and you are handed a note. You open it and there's a letter from mom and dad telling you that this is hurting them more than you, but that they feel they need to send you away to get help. That they are doing it because it is for your own good, because they love you.

I'm sorry. I just don't see the love in that scenario. And if anyone tells me it does not go down that way, then fine, but I know differently. I have heard it plenty from not only parents who have sent their kids, but from kids themselves. I've even called the "escort" companies and been told they do this.

I find this very disturbing and I believe that if more people were aware of these abductions they too would be disturbed and that perhaps we could get some attention.

It's just a thought.

[Antigen]

On 2005-11-01 18:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

I find this very disturbing and I believe that if more people were aware of these abductions they too would be disturbed and that perhaps we could get some attention.

 :nworthy:  

Thank you for not joining in the turning away.

I quite agree. The way it works out now, parents just brag about having sent their kid to private boarding school. Who in their right mind would think to ask if they'd been abducted by thugs in the process? It's just largely unknown. But the more we chatter (as us chattering pigs are so wont to do), and the more this extraordinary story creeps into the mainstream, the more likely that Program parents will meet w/ some well deserved criticizm from their own peers.

It takes a thousand voices to tell just one story.

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0807059099/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446

[Anonymous]

You're right, it does take a thousand voices to tell the story. I'm one of those voices and I make sure that people hear me loud and clear. There is no excuse that kids are being abducted from their homes. None at all. I can only imagine the damage that does to them emotionally. Especially the ones who have no idea what is going on.

I have talked to a child who this happened to. He told me that now, after the abduction, he has trouble trusting anyone in his life. He is now 21 and was in a program from 16-18. An abusive program in Western Samoa. He has a wonderful girlfriend who comes from a wonderful family. He has absolutely no reason to distrust her, he even admits it to me. But deep inside of him he cannot trust and he pushes her away. He loves her and is very conflicted. We talked at length and he is coming to realize that he needs to trust those who are trustworthy. He trusts me, so that's a good start.

As for his parents, the ones who hired his abductors? He has no relationship with them anymore. He cannot trust them, they have hurt him too many times. Once he returned from the program, he continued to live with them for a year because he believed them that they would have him abducted again if he got out of line or if he contacted any of his friends from his past. They told him age of majority over there was 22 so it was legal. Lie, again. When he realized they were lying he felt like a fool, he said, for believing them, again.

The damage this does is unbelievable. I don't know how parents can think that doing this can be healthy. Parents buy into what they are told. They believe it's the only way to get the child to the program.

I think they should ask themselves this question. If you have to go behind your child's back, hire someone to barge into their rooms while they are sleeping, and to take them to a place hundreds or thousands of miles from home, a place where they won't talk to mom or dad for months on end, parents, how can this be healthy? Oh, some of you won't know about that, that you won't get to talk to your kid for months. I think they spring that on you AFTER they have your kid. And, those of you who are told they can "fix" your kid in three months, and then they keep them for a couple of years, well, I doubt they told you about that either. They get the child in the program and then once they have your child, they conveniently find tons of things wrong with him or her. And of course, the child is manipulative and a liar. Never mind how manipulative it was to have him or her abducted. Some of these kids are not bad, horrible kids as some people would like to think. Most come from homes with problems, homes where something within the family unit has gone wrong. And if parents were to be honest with themselves, often it's not the kid who is at the root of the problems. But it is the kids who pay the very high price tag of being sent away.

Read the many pages on this website to see what kids are saying is happening to them. And believe it, because sadly, it's true.

Parents, please wake up and please see that having children abducted is not the answer. It is only the beginning of a whole host of new problems, ones you certainly won't be able to resolve. But, the ones you have now, the ones that are making you consider sending your child away, many of those problems could be resolved at home with some help. I hold onto the fact that kids need love and respect and with that they will thrive. Without it they will seek comfort in other things. Usually those other things are never in their best interest.

[Nihilanthic]

Sounds like he was in Paradice Cove. Those two words explain it all, to those who know what they mean.

I came into this around april '04, so I too have been aware of this for about a year (and a half) myself.

Theres nothing for me to say that you dont already know, by now, Im sure... not about the programs, the industry, the palpable EVIL of it all, or the varying emotions taht rollercoaster from highs to lows.. hope and joy, to despair and hate.

One thing I can say, is that you shouldn't let those little demons of depression, hatred (no matter how well deserved) get to you. You already proved that youre above apathy and fear by reading, thinking, feeling, and even posting about it.

Everyone has their own demons to fight. Everyone has something that keeps them up at night or troubles their mind during idle moments of the day. And well, for people like the two of us, thinking its hopeless or getting depressed about the situation, and the constant thought that this very moment there are tens of thousands of children in little torture camps around the USA and a handful (that still remain) overseas. But you know what? Feeling hopeless or giving in to depression is what the people running it all want. Its how they break the children, they make them feel powerless and feel hopeless so they give in. And if we do, then they win, because we wont even try to change anything.

You also cant let hatred or anger get the best of you. I did myself for a long time and Im finally realizing that I got to just let it flow through me like the muadib lets fear flow through him... well, if youve seen or read "Dune" youd know what I meant. There was a time that I so passionately wanted a bloody death to everyone even remotly involved in this that Id just as soon snap my fingers and see them turned into hamburger before my eyes, or pull the trigger myself if they were lined up before a wall and I had enough ammunition or enough stamina to beat the butt of a rifle through their temple. But, well, not only is that illegal, thats also playing into their game. Their seminars are just the most distilled version of their manipulation game. You turn up the emotions and the intellect is moved to the back burner.

So what do we do? Well, after I hit my low from thinking and dealing with and trying to help with all this mess, I finally realized I cant let myself be personally hurt or screwed up by this, as selfish as it sounds. I dont mean that im putting myself before that kid in O.P. right now or the kids still awake (or just woken up) for a marathon rap/propheet/seminar/workshop and ignoring them. Im meaning I wont let them hurt someone else or make them give in to all the bullshit and stop trying. If you keep positive and keep moving forwards while still keeping the goal in mind, not focusing on whats been done and giving into the negativity of it, you and everyone else will eventually get the word out, and force everyone whose supposed to be protecting these children to do so, and just maybe get some of those assholes thrown in jail for their crimes against these children, this country, humanity, and whatever divinity exists in this universe.

I realize Im sounding a lot different from my usual self, but its becuase I finally turned my eyes to something spiritual. Hope and love is something that can be in short supply if you absorb yourself in this too much, and everyone needs something to look towards in awe and to feel hopeful in. For me, its the future, and the potential of humanity, and that something is there. You can call it 'nature', or 'God', or 'AhuraMazdah', or the 'Great Noodly One'. I dont care. Im just sick of having a bitter outlook tainted by the worst in humanity, and I think its time to look at whats good in it and pay attention to what some of our more 'primitive', but more cultured ancient socieites might have to say about it. We're all stretching to the same end, trying to reach the same goal, and bathe in the same fountain of hope and joy here. The only problem with Religion to me is the 'middle men' who take what someone who had a moment of insight and enligthement said, stick their fingers in it to make a buck and get some power, and fuck it all up!

When I first found out about all this shit I literally did nothing but sob and stare at what I had found in a near catatonic stupor, but I eventually turned that into a rage. Now, I finally got rid of that rage and that depressed low that came from realizing that I wont see the end of it tomorrow. I realized I had done a lot, I had made a lot of people I had met about this feel better, and that I couldnt just fall into the little trap these people are so damned good at setting.

So dont do that to yourself. Im not saying forget what they've done, but I am saying to focus instead of the end of all this torment and the justice for everyone responsible. Its no matter of if, but it IS a matter of when! What goes up must come down, and the one constant is that everything changes. The day will come when this is over, a memory, a horror story of the system failing and parents giving into fear and the manipulators saying that everyone else is, when a few people take the fall and most likely the bigwigs in this run with their tail between their legs and hide in seclusion, fearing the media and those they harmed.

And you know what? Its going to happen that must sooner becuase of people like you and me, and because of some brave individuals like Ginger there who didnt run from her own past, and gave us a place to talk about all this, and stood up to those stupid lawsuits and threats of various sorts from various assholes, and even the occasional troll speaking afoul of her or her family!

And well, in closing, heres that poem:

I will not fear
Fear is the mindkiller,
Fear is the little death
That brings total Oblivion
I will permit my fear to pass
Over me and through me
And where it has gone
I will turn the inner eye
Nothing will be there
Only I will remain. - Mua'Dib

Jails and prisons are the complement of schools; so many less as you have of the latter, so many more you must have of the former

--Horace Mann

[Anonymous]

Wow, Nihil, doesn't sound like your usual posts. I'm glad to see you are coming to grips with some things. I am too. It's taken a while but things are becoming more clear to me. I'm not depressed, I'm not feeling helpless. I'm taking a step back to regroup.

I think that the idea any one of us or any organization is single-handedly going to make things better is a joke. I wish we could but it's just not that simple.

I also think that we all have something to give, those of us who truly care and want this nightmare to stop for the kids. One thing I am convinced that we can do is to be vocal and speak out even in our own communities. There's no reason we can't go to high school principals and ask if we can speak to a group of parents. Why the hell not? And why not ask pastors for a little time on Sunday morning to educate the people who attend their churches. Why not? And why not tell someone about this hideous industry when you're waiting in line at the grocery store? Give them an informational flier that will lead them to do their own research on the internet. j

I think making people aware that this is out there is a very good start. Then, when they see programs on TV they can then remember that they have already heard about this. It will reinforce what you told them, and before you know it, they'll be telling others, and so on. Why the hell not?

[songweaver]

I just wanted say thank you for posting this. I have been reading about all of this lately and it is all very horrible. Survivors like you who are fighting against this evil are heroes.

The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled.
-- Plutarch

[nuiloa]

I had a few variations on the theme happen to me; one night, my mom knocked on my door and said 'someone wanted to see me'.  Since I was already asleep, I had a nasty suspicion who that 'someone' might be.  I heard the sounds of a walkie-talkie in the hallway.  My mom had the door open and wouldn't let me get dressed with it closed; the cop had to tell her to close the door.  So I had to leave with the cop, and he was quite nasty about my attempt to sit in the front seat with him, which I stood my ground and did anyway.  He had the gall to ask what radio station I wanted to listen to.  He took me to the mental hospital without even questioning me or my mother.  I guess cops do as parents command.

Another fun trick my parents played on me was to ask if I wanted to go out to dinner.  Since that was a relative rarity, I was very excited to go...and was shocked when, again, they dropped me off at the mental hospital for reasons of their own, which they did not share with me.

I'm writing a book about all this right now.  I have columns in several newspapers and published my own historical fiction books, so I have something of a following.  Hopefully it's enough to attract attention to the book I've needed to write for years, and maybe we'll finally be able to effect change.  I believe it was Nellie Bly, a journalist who faked insanity to be admitted to a mental institution, who exposed those places for what they used to be and brought many changes about. However, I also read that it was difficult for such 'placed' people to keep their sanity on the inside, and so had to be pulled out, which should tell you what institutions really do to people. This is a time in history for another Nellie Bly- maybe not someone placed there on purpose, but someone whose history could tell the tale best.

-nuiloa

[Antigen]

Can I have an advance copy, please? I'll definitely list it either way. But if I read it I can sell it better.

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
--Anonymous

[nuiloa]

Absolutely.  I've only begun the preliminary work at this point, but when it's finished, you can have a look.  I might even post it on my website.  The more people who can access it, the better.  We'll see.

-nuiloa

[Antigen]

Cool beans! Thanks

Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle

[Anonymous]

I was kidnapped out of my room nearly 8 years ago and I still have issues with that today. These programs are not worth it! I unfortunately can say many years from now that I was part of the teen warehousing trend of the 90?s and early 2000?s.

[nuiloa]

It's interesting that your sig is 'Drug war POW'; for a college paper I've been studying Scottish POWs in Japanese camps, and it's uncanny how I feel that my experience parallels theirs.  I'm sure that would sound insulting to a POW, but I think it makes me more sympathetic to them.  Other people will never understand either the plight of the POWs, or our own plight.

-nuiloa

[Anonymous]

Please don't underestimate just how much some of us understand, even if we were not in a program ourselves. I, for one, never stepped foot in a program as a "student" (we all know it's a joke to call you students, but that's what they would like us to believe you are.) But I know many kids who have been victims of these programs and just how much damage they have caused, not only to the kids, but to their entire families. The abductions, the lies, the mental reprogramming - all of it.

We're all here talking, listening, and hopefully learning more about the industry and the damage it's caused. I believe it is each of our civil duties to go out and spread the word about what we know and about our personal experiences. Me, well my experience comes from a child I know, a child I love, who was sent to one of these hell-holes. I personally experienced this child being abducted from my home, against my wishes.

I understand what you are saying when people just don't understand. Most don't, but luckily many people here do. I wonder how many people can really feel the pain of a child being taken away from you at the hands of complete strangers, a child you took in as your own, a child you loved when his own parents were not there to love him, yet they were there to make such a horrible decision to have him taken from you and sent to another country. Not knowing where he was and what had happened to him were almost more than we could bear. But we had to bear it because we were not his parents and we didn't have the legal standing that his parents had.

I guess my point is that parents, though I am one myself, have too many rights when it comes to these sorts of things. Parents are not allowed to abuse their children and could go to jail for doing so, yet they can hire a third-party to do so? And they can hire an "escort" service to kidnap kids in the middle of the night from their beds. Parents should not be allowed to get away with this, it's just wrong.

[Antigen]

Here! Here, Anon!

I firmly believe that we can all understand each other, at least enough to come to consensus on some important issues. The trouble is not that the Program or POW camps or wars are so alien to "normal" human experience. It's that they are extreme examples of "normal" power and control techniques based on, mostly involuntary, but very normal social reflexes.

In other words, most people have a huge blind spot wrt their own experience w/ being manipulated and controled in these ways.

Nuiloa, there are a couple of reasons why I use the POW reference. Honestly, the main reason is shock value. It's a reducto absurdium strategy just to get people to talk about the issue. Go ahead, dare me to line out the similarities. There are extremely significant difference, of course. I was forced to wittness and, to some degree, participate in tormenting others in the name of some high holy cause. And I was a conscript. So I was a prisoner and this is a war. It's a war on users of certain unpatentable drugs. And people are dying behind it and being held captive for their dissent. I do not, in any wise, say or even THINK that having been in a program is anywhere close to the horrors of military combat. I'm just trying to make the point that the mechanism is the same, and so are some of the psyche casualties. And, more than that, the people who held us captive (for our own good, of course) are actually sending real live soldiers to kill and die from Bolivia to Afghanistan to the Bronx, all in the name of fighting their high holy war on unauthorized euphorea.

No, I don't mean to insult a war POW or any other soldier. But I do think that my bizarre childhood experience has given me insight into how all that works.

But I didn't come up w/ the comparison all on my own. I read about it from Senator Sam Ervin (of Watergate fame)

Here's a page out of his book making a direct comparison between The Seed and Korean POW camps:

http://thestraights.com/images/seed-Ervin-brainwash.htm

Here's some context:
http://thestraights.com/people/medical- ... search.htm

God is inconceivable, immortality is unbelievable, but duty is peremptory and absolute.
--George Eliot, author

_________________
Drug war POW
Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82

[Anonymous]

Good points, Ginger.

I guesss simply put - what these programs are doing to kids is wrong - very wrong - and hopefully people will begin to understand what is truly going on. It will be then, and only then, that things will begin to turn around and children will be protected from these sick bastards.