why these kids are so fucked up

[Anonymous]

"Many parents WOULD put themselves in a program if it would help. We would lay down and die for our kids if it would help."

It's no big secret, the majority of the reason kids are fucked up is because of the parents. So, yes, go enter some kind of fucking program. As far as laying down and dying??? Well, I don't know you so I cannot say whether or not you laying down, and dying would help.

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-19 10:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

""Many parents WOULD put themselves in a program if it would help. We would lay down and die for our kids if it would help."



It's no big secret, the majority of the reason kids are fucked up is because of the parents. So, yes, go enter some kind of fucking program. As far as laying down and dying??? Well, I don't know you so I cannot say whether or not you laying down, and dying would help."

Cant say I agree with the entire post or why the kids are fucked up, but atleast you admit that they ARE so we agree on that level and thats a start.  So the next step is to seek help for the kid, right?  Either inside the home or outside and if the parents are totally screwed up than the right choice would be outside the home, seems to be logical.  Then prior to the child coming back into the home the parents should have seeked help, if needed, to straighten any problems there, before the family becomes reunited.  There seems to be some common ground.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-19 10:16:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"http://www.wimp.com/hypnotized/





If this can't explain why they are so fucked up I don't know what will.

You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
easier.
--GW Büsh, Governor of Texas. Governing Magazine, 7/98

"

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

So has anyone been hypnotized on stage like that before? I have a hard time believing it's not staged. One time at a magic show an assistant took me behind back and showed me the entire trick, then told me to sit in the audience and play along. I did. Everyone was fooled, but it kind of ruined the fun of magic shows for me now. They are all in on it!!

So tell me, is hypnotism different? That was some seriously funny shit man.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-19 10:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-19 10:01:00, Anonymous wrote:


""Many parents WOULD put themselves in a program if it would help. We would lay down and die for our kids if it would help."





It's no big secret, the majority of the reason kids are fucked up is because of the parents. So, yes, go enter some kind of fucking program. As far as laying down and dying??? Well, I don't know you so I cannot say whether or not you laying down, and dying would help."

Cant say I agree with the entire post or why the kids are fucked up, but atleast you admit that they ARE so we agree on that level and thats a start.  So the next step is to seek help for the kid, right?  Either inside the home or outside and if the parents are totally screwed up than the right choice would be outside the home, seems to be logical.  Then prior to the child coming back into the home the parents should have seeked help, if needed, to straighten any problems there, before the family becomes reunited.  There seems to be some common ground."

Depends on your definition of fucked up. I was at a wwasp program, and very few kids there had what I'd consider serious issues. Mostly parent over reacting to finding a small bag of pot. How does being locked up for 2 years solve that problem? What will be different when the child returns home? In my opinion it makes things worse in many cases. I agree, there are good programs out there, I went to one before I was transfered to a WWASP gulag. The program I went to was local, and accredited by the state. It was SO different than WWASP, it's not even worth comparing. Most of the programs discussed here are the bad ones, that's why the topic is limited to certain programs. Can we not criticize the bad programs just because there are good ones out there?

PS: it's not the job of anyone here to find a good program for parents, that is there job. If you can't visit a facility when you like, don't you wonder why not? There are too many red flags that cannot be ignored with WWASP programs. I also was at Provo very briefly, but my parent decided to not place me there because of the mandatory 7 days of isolation upon entry. (weird huh?) Instead I was placed at WWASP because they do a better job at fooling parents with brochures and stuff. After a few months my parent had no problem with them putting me in isolation there for not being 'real' enough in seminars. (maybe I didn't cry enough for gilcrase? I dunno.) Either way, it's been an interesting experience and I never knew these places existed before. I feel for the teens locked up in bad places, I know what it's like. You spend your days just trying to survive mentally, rather than 'getting better'. Good programs are out there, yes, but so are the bad ones. I came out of the program shell shocked. The real world was difficult to deal with, and I ended up doing worse things after than I ever did before. I can honestly say the program made things worse. Believe me, I wish I had ended up in a good program and stayed there. Why they chose to send me out of state to a WWASP program is beyond me. I think it had to due with insurance not covering me and WWASP being the most affordable program out there. I think this is a problem. INsurance needs to cover teen help in accredited facilities because all the good ones cost too much for most parents. Anyways, my 2 cents for the day.

[Anonymous]

That had to be the stupidest shit I have ever seen!!! What was the point of having us check that out? Let me guess, you love watching WWF, and going to monter truck shows on the weekend too, right?!!!!!! :silly:

[Anonymous]

Oh yeah, I wanted to add..

The 'good' facilities I got to stay at before being sent to WWASP shit-hole weren't called 'programs'. That is why I tend to say all programs are bad... it's a semantics argument I guess. The good places I was at called themselves RTC's (residential treatement centers). The reason WWASP can't call itself an RTC is because they say very plainly THEY ARE NOT TREATMENT. They are behavior modification, a very different can of worms. VERY different. I can't even explain how big a difference this is. If a teen is 'fucked up' most likely they need treatment and help instead of emotional torture, ridicule and jail time. Just a thought...

[Anonymous]

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-19 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-19 04:55:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-10-17 13:29:00, Anonymous wrote:



 but kids now are dealing with meth--a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it.

If you would quit lying and spouting misleading propaganda about drugs, maybe your kids would listen to you when you warn them about the potential dangers.  When you lie about drugs, your credibility on other issues goes down the drain, too.  

*** When you lie about drugs, your credibility on other issues goes down the drain, too. ***



This is too classic, to be actually used in the context of defending drug use. Do you mind if I steal this Quote for a piece I am doing?  

Obviously, you don't know the facts to which this person refers.

You obliqued this line
"If meth was "a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it", most US armed forces veterans would be drooling speedfreaks.  Get your facts right before spouting off your inane scare stories."

Why? Do you find it troubling or maybe just plain confusing? Here, let me help you out a bit.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... click=true

Never bring a knife to a gun fight.

Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... miamithem' target='_new'>H. G. Wells

[Anonymous]

"Mostly parent over reacting to finding a small bag of pot."

Yeah, I'm sure that is exactly why the parents decided to spend $60K or so- because they were overreacting to a small bag of pot.
Have you killed so many brain cells that you don't remember exactly what it is that most of these kids were doing?  Just the things they would ADMIT to went way beyond civility and legality. I know kids in my peer group had stolen cars, stolen money and jewelry from their parents, stolen and sold prescription drugs, got kicked out of school, had promiscuous sex (girls), eating disorders, alcohol addictions, robbed garages, stole bikes....
Get real.  Whether or not you think these programs are all bad, and maybe some of them are, don't mislead yourself and others by pretending that the kids didn't need help desperately.  I know I did.

[Antigen]

No, you don't know that. All you know is that they said they did. Confessions derived under duress are not credible. Most of us caved in to the pressure to exagerate or even make up out of whole cloth our druggie histories. That was just the only way to get the pressure off. Given enough mental and emotional pressure, exhaustion and general disorientation, a surprising number of people come to actually believe their own lies. Fascinating stuff!

For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.  
-- Johnny Carson

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-19 10:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

The good places I was at called themselves RTC's (residential treatement centers).

Please explain; which places and what was good about them?

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

[Anonymous]

Sorry, Ginger. Wrong again.  I know what I did, and I know what the friends I made did, and their stories jive with what their parents and siblings disclosed in family groups.  We were not coerced at all into confessing things. We didn't wind up at this school because we were leading Habitat for Humanity groups every weekend.  
Admitting what we did was really not that big of a deal.  In the beginning of wilderness, everyone would minimize what they had done. But it didn't take us long to get past the, "I only smoked 1 joint" stage.  Being honest just wasn't that painful.  Wonder why it is for you?

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-19 11:47:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2005-10-19 09:19:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-10-19 04:55:00, Anonymous wrote:



"

On 2005-10-17 13:29:00, Anonymous wrote:




 but kids now are dealing with meth--a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it.

If you would quit lying and spouting misleading propaganda about drugs, maybe your kids would listen to you when you warn them about the potential dangers.  When you lie about drugs, your credibility on other issues goes down the drain, too.  

*** When you lie about drugs, your credibility on other issues goes down the drain, too. ***





This is too classic, to be actually used in the context of defending drug use. Do you mind if I steal this Quote for a piece I am doing?  

Obviously, you don't know the facts to which this person refers.



You obliqued this line

"If meth was "a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it", most US armed forces veterans would be drooling speedfreaks.  Get your facts right before spouting off your inane scare stories."



Why? Do you find it troubling or maybe just plain confusing? Here, let me help you out a bit.



http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... click=true



Never bring a knife to a gun fight.

Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... miamithem' target='_new'>H. G. Wells

"

Antigen -- Do you realize what you are quoting?  Bush's men under fire for the use of drugs during warfare.  Do you expect the military to rollover and say yeah sorry we screwed up, we will support every military guy and their families for the rest of their lives because we drugged them?  You dont remember the hearings on the use of agent orange in vietnam?  I am just surprised you find any of that credible.  These guys could come home full fledged addicts and it would be denied for generations before they would allow anyone access to records from any Veterans hospital.

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-19 14:39:00, Antigen wrote:

"No, you don't know that. All you know is that they said they did. Confessions derived under duress are not credible. Most of us caved in to the pressure to exagerate or even make up out of whole cloth our druggie histories. That was just the only way to get the pressure off. Given enough mental and emotional pressure, exhaustion and general disorientation, a surprising number of people come to actually believe their own lies. Fascinating stuff!

For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.  
-- Johnny Carson

"

I was in group with the kids and talked to the parents, some kids inflated their stories a bit but that all came out over the course of the program i.e. tons of writting, life stories, talking to parents in group, confronting each other etc. it all boils off eventually exposing the truth or as close as possible to it.

[Anonymous]

This is just too crazy.
The program apologist states:

I know kids in my peer group had stolen cars, stolen money and jewelry from their parents, stolen and sold prescription drugs, got kicked out of school, had promiscuous sex (girls), eating disorders, alcohol addictions, robbed garages, stole bikes....

And every program out there (with the exception of those the courts favor for placement) will tell parents that they don't take 'really bad' kids, 'criminals'.

The programs' story changes with the wind.