why these kids are so fucked up

[Withdraw]

On 2005-10-18 17:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Open-minded is not an attribute found on this forum."

I think what you mean is.. If someone isn't agreeing with you they must not have an "open" mind.

When in fact the reality of having an "open" mind is simply accepting that we won't all agree. Knowing that and still speaking your truth are the actions of someone with an "open" mind. Shutting off because people don't agree are the actions of a "closed" mind.

Debate and discussion allow us all to grow and learn. The debates here often lead to discovery of truths not previously known or accounted for.

Many of us have seen first hand what kind of potential for long term damage many types of programs will cause. Any one place with that much potetial/power to harm another can't be a good thing for anyone involved. I am proof.

my 2c

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: At any rate, from my own personal experience, here are some programs I know to be very good:



Spring Creek

Explorations

Montana Academy

Monarch

Mission Mountain

End Quote.

I just don't think so. Do a search here and on Google and you'll find plenty of reasons to doubt that these are good healthy wholesome programs for kids. The whole concept of kids being sent far from home for years at a time isn't good in my book. I think the better option is programs that are close to home where the child goes home each night and the entire family is involved in the therapy, not the child only. That makes everyone responsible for the problem.

Just my 2c

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-17 13:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

 but kids now are dealing with meth--a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it.

If you would quit lying and spouting misleading propaganda about drugs, maybe your kids would listen to you when you warn them about the potential dangers.  When you lie about drugs, your credibility on other issues goes down the drain, too.  If meth was "a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it", most US armed forces veterans would be drooling speedfreaks.  Get your facts right before spouting off your inane scare stories.

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-18 21:06:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

"

So you expect the school to do all the work!!! Thats what is wrong with most families today, expecting the school system and day care to raise your kids for you. Sometimes the kids need to be removed from the family because the family is screwed up NOT THE KID, and the entire family needs to participate in order to effect any change.

Then make the whole family go through the required 15 months of incarceration.



Who says 15 months is the magic amount of time needed to fix a teenager?

 

If the family is that screwed up, (not the kid), why is the teenager the one to be punished? Incarcerate the parents in the program and put the teen in a theraputic foster home. "

***Then make the whole family go through the required 15 months of incarceration.***

Some do make the whole family participate,  If you had to separate one member from the others it makes sense for it to be the child.  If the parents went away for 15 months who would pay the bills, oversee the house other kids in the family etc.  most companies wouldnt allow a leave of absence for that long.  Also in some states the laws prohibits a child living alone under a certain age.

***Who says 15 months is the magic amount of time needed to fix a teenager?***

Some vary because they really dont know, each child is different, some stay over 2 years.

***If the family is that screwed up, (not the kid), why is the teenager the one to be punished? Incarcerate the parents in the program and put the teen in a theraputic foster home. ***

Its more difficult to uproot the parents like I mentioned above, I cant speak to theraputic foster homes because I am not aware of them as an option.  This isnt a form of punishment, its just the opposite, I think most parents agree that it isnt one member of the family that needs help but the entire family, if someone offered a better solution then separating the family most parents would jump at it.

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-18 21:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Real Simple.

Teens aren't 'perfect'. Why do parents and programs expect them to be?

If you're going to expect perfection from the teens, you should expect it of the program.



Regular schools don't charge $3-6,000 per month to 'fix' kids.

Regular schools don't assume the responsibility of parents 24/7/365.

Regular schools, while not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, have oversight and LIMITS ON THE ABUSE THEY CAN SUBJECT THE KIDS TO.



That's a good start.

"

***If you're going to expect perfection from the teens, you should expect it of the program. ***

I check the previous posts and did not see any expectations of perfection.

***Regular schools don't charge $3-6,000 per month to 'fix' kids. ***

So what, who cares about the money, they dont make the kids earn it, would everyone be happy if it were free, dont understand that one.

***Regular schools don't assume the responsibility of parents 24/7/365.***

And they should not, a system will never work unless everyone is involved.  A parent should check each program for parent involvement.  If they are not involved it is a red flag.

***Regular schools, while not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, have oversight and LIMITS ON THE ABUSE THEY CAN SUBJECT THE KIDS TO.***

I cant speak for every state but the one I am from does not allow any abuse of kids, public or private.  If your school advertises "LIMITED ABUSE" you should pull your kids, thats just nuts.  Of all the stories I have read about not one school in the private sector have limited abuse rules.  If a teacher abuses a student he/she is usually gone the next day.  So I cant respond to that comment.

[Anonymous]

'Abuse' is a relative term dear.
Both are abusive by their very nature- they don't address kids real needs. Warehouses are just far worse, with no oversight.

[Anonymous]

There is no reason to argue with a program supporter. Have you ever tried debating with a religious zelout? This is about as productive as that is. They base their facts on 'belief' and faith the programs are good. They have no first hand knowledge, so why even talk to them? Especially if you yourself went to one of these programs. No reason at all... they simply enjoy fucking with teens even more than they had. Most likely because their own kid left them in the dust when they realize what an abusive fucktard their parent is.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-19 06:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"There is no reason to argue with a program supporter. Have you ever tried debating with a religious zelout? This is about as productive as that is. They base their facts on 'belief' and faith the programs are good. They have no first hand knowledge, so why even talk to them? Especially if you yourself went to one of these programs. No reason at all... they simply enjoy fucking with teens even more than they had. Most likely because their own kid left them in the dust when they realize what an abusive fucktard their parent is. "

Now-THAT was brilliant! I think YOU are the fucktard, whatever that may be.  Parents who support programs do so because the program with which they  have experience has been helpful to their teen and family.  You just can't stand to hear that, can you?  Their relationship with their teen was salvaged and, in many cases, the teen is back home and happy with his or her life.  Why would a parent "enjoy fucking with teens"? The pain and heartache of having a broken family and a teen who is in danger is beyond what you can imagine.  A teen-help program is an absolute last resort. Many parents WOULD put themselves in a program if it would help. We would lay down and die for our kids if it would help. What part of this do you not get?  The reason the teens who have been helped are not heard from much on this board is because they HAVE been helped and have moved on with their lives and have better things to do than wallow in their own self-pity because whatever program they went to didn't work and they are still fucked-up little shits like you guys here on the forum.

[Anonymous]

We would lay down and die for our kids if it would help.

You know, had you done this while your child was still young, it might have helped.  :skull:  :wave:

[Anonymous]

You just can't stand to hear that, can you?

No, it doesn't bother me. I've heard much worse from you program freaks, believe me. I've seen much worse too, that is why I laugh at what you say. As they say, ignorance is bliss...  :wink:

[Anonymous]

Many parents WOULD put themselves in a program if it would help. We would lay down and die for our kids if it would help.

 ::boohoo::

 :lol:

[Anonymous]

they are still fucked-up little shits like you guys here on the forum.

Say, you would make a great staff member, ANON. I hear WWASP is hiring. Minimum wage or less sound good? Sleeping in a shack with other staff okay? I thought it would, send me your resume ASAP. Let's get this going. You will fit in very well.

Frank A. Beans
WWASP Human Resource Director

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-19 04:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-17 13:29:00, Anonymous wrote:


 but kids now are dealing with meth--a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it.

If you would quit lying and spouting misleading propaganda about drugs, maybe your kids would listen to you when you warn them about the potential dangers.  When you lie about drugs, your credibility on other issues goes down the drain, too.  If meth was "a drug you can get addicted to the first time you use it", most US armed forces veterans would be drooling speedfreaks.  Get your facts right before spouting off your inane scare stories."

*** When you lie about drugs, your credibility on other issues goes down the drain, too. ***

This is too classic, to be actually used in the context of defending drug use. Do you mind if I steal this Quote for a piece I am doing?  
Most people reading this quote would assume it was the parent speaking to the child (after coming home from a party or something).  
But to realize this is coming from the kid (who is probably high at the time) (the camera slowly bringing the speaker into focus) speaking to his or her parent(s) is right on target with what is going on today, I love this forum.

[Anonymous]

I'm high.  :smokin:


:wave:



and lovin' it!  :tup:

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-19 06:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"There is no reason to argue with a program supporter. Have you ever tried debating with a religious zelout? This is about as productive as that is. They base their facts on 'belief' and faith the programs are good. They have no first hand knowledge, so why even talk to them? Especially if you yourself went to one of these programs. No reason at all... they simply enjoy fucking with teens even more than they had. Most likely because their own kid left them in the dust when they realize what an abusive fucktard their parent is. "

Sorry, it sounds like you had a horrorable home life, abusive parents and all.  Your anger is understandable and I dont mean to minimalize your position but not all kids had to live that way.  Some had great home lives other were not so great.  I do agree that not all programs are good and that every kid is suited for every program, but they do exist and they do work for a great number of kids.