why these kids are so fucked up

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-18 14:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

Antigen -- Anything constructive has to be discussed off line or we would be innundated with garbage.  Even if the program mentions that it has a "structured" curriculum it is considered abusive to some and sounds suspicious to most. Even if a school is working towards a good goal like getting accredited it is viewed as a negative.  There are many good schools, but like they say one bad apple brings them all down.  If someone gave me a list of bad schools I could go to their web site and make a list of some great things they are doing, but that wouldnt be constructive nor would it lay a foundation for any forward thinking discussions.

We need to focus more on the future of the kids and how we can turn some of these schools around thru standards and minimum requirements not by bashing and slinging dirt, its not helping the kids and I think we should hold that up a little higher than we have been around here.

okay I'll step down, I needed that."

O..... k.....

Uhm, well if you were to post the names of these good schools of yours, odds are pretty good that someone who may read your post might have firsthand experience w/ them and be willing to share. And we could all have a shot at looking around for whatever info we could find, such as the histories of the people involved, things like that. No one is forced to believe any of it. We don't tilt the field here; all opinions are welcome.

But if you don't think they can stand that kind of scrutiny, ok. That's fine. I don't know what you've got to hide, but ok. Would someone please PM this person and then post the names of these great schools so we can have a look?

During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
--James Madison, U.S. President

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-18 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

At any rate, from my own personal experience, here are some programs I know to be very good:

Spring Creek
Explorations
Montana Academy
Monarch
Mission Mountain


Anyone have some to add?

Yes! Ft. Lauderdale Christian School was a very good school when I attended. That was back in the dark ages, though, when we had rocks for pets and wore disco stuff for about 10 minutes. I can't say how they are now.

But I can add some context, though.


http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=Spring Creek&addterms=phrase&forum=all&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search'>Spring Creek

http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=Explorations &addterms=phrase&forum=all&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search'>Explorations

http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=Montana Academy &addterms=phrase&forum=all&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search'>Montana Academy

http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=Monarch&addterms=phrase&forum=all&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search'>Monarch

http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=Mission Mountain&addterms=phrase&forum=all&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search'>Mission Mountain

Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671877046/' target='_new'> Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.

[Antigen]

On 2005-10-18 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

At any rate, from my own personal experience, here are some programs I know to be very good:

Spring Creek
Explorations
Montana Academy
Monarch
Mission Mountain

Wow, you have personal experience at all those programs for troubled parents? My condolances! You must have had some thoroughly messed up parents.

That which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.



http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/5580/straight.html' target='_new'>Scott Wagner

[TheWho]

There is one in Conneticut which I forgot the name and in Massachusetts "Swift River Academy" is good.

[Antigen]

http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=Swift River&addterms=phrase&forum=all&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search'>Swift River

What's so good about it?

First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97

[Anonymous]

"Wow, you have personal experience at all those programs for troubled parents? My condolances! You must have had some thoroughly messed up parents."

 :rofl:

Thanks for the sympathy. My parents? Yeah, early on they were "non-working," to use program speak. Later, that changed. I graduated from a program many years ago, and I have had a child attend a wilderness program--very successfully--but I have also worked at programs and taught at a local high school attended by program kids.

[Antigen]

How much do you make for referals?

The Mann family was only one of a host of influential voices being raised against the traditional reading instructions in the most literate nation on earth.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/3n.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-18 16:02:00, Antigen wrote:

"http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=Swift River&addterms=phrase&forum=all&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search'>Swift River



What's so good about it?

First management had plans and then strategic plans. Now we have vision, and we're only one small step from hallucination.
-- Ansley Throckmorton upon assuming the presidency of Bangor Theological Seminary in Bangor, Main per Information World 8-4-`97

"

It works very well for kids who are struggling at home or at risk and will respond well to a structured environment.  If the child is having issues with drug dependence or violence this is not the place for him or her.  I believe each school has its strengths (and Weakness).  No fences, parents are involved on a weekly basis, and also in groups and one on one with counselors. They work on each childs individual needs.  Massachusetts is a tough state to jump into in the midst of high school, standards are a little tougher than most and diplomas are handed out based on standardized test scores MCAS.  So even though the teachers are accredited, once the school gets there (Accreditation) it will be twice as hard for out of state students to meet the requirements, although when they get get back to their own high school they will be way ahead in most cases and get their diploma with ease.
Uhm...open door policy for parents to visit.  Doesnt seem to be any abuse, food is okay, well sometimes..

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-18 16:15:00, Antigen wrote:

"How much do you make for referals?

The Mann family was only one of a host of influential voices being raised against the traditional reading instructions in the most literate nation on earth.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/3n.htm' target='_new'>John Taylor Gatto

"

Antigen -- Shame, not nice, remember you asked for the list.  The parents rarely ask what type of drugs the kids are on or how high they are when the tell their horror stories about each school.  Lets be fair.  Being openminded doesnt mean they are getting paid.

[Anonymous]

Open-minded is not an attribute found on this forum.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-18 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-18 14:01:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Swift River can not be placed on the "Good School List."  There are some basic standards that must be met to get on the GOOD LIST:





Accreditation


Certified Teachers


Adult Supervision: NOT supervision by PEERS


Realization that this is a "SCHOOL"--not a FAMILY...these kids already have a family.


Inclusion of all kids in all activities


Licensed by the State





So, sorry! Swift River will not do.





LIST the other schools you know that are "good."





"

I don't agree with your criteria. For instance, if all kids are included in all activities, there is nothing for others to work toward. Motivation is already a problem for most teens. Another problem: Some states don't have licensing. Does that preclude programs in those states doing a good job? And having accreditation and certified teachers: What about all the programs whose students attend public high schools?



I think your post does point up one problem: Because there are so many good ways to approach working with kids, coming up with criteria to apply across the board is tough. Maybe one question could be "Does this program do what it says it does," i.e. if it claims accreditation, it ought to have it.



Another problem that's illustrated by your post is the tendency of most of us to think we can define success for a particular kid or family. No wonder kids are confused.



For a lot of parents, success has been measured in accumulation of goods. The kids show that through their disregard for things like education, personal integrity, a commitment to good health, etc.



It might not hurt here to open your mind to other approaches, and identify things to agree on: basic safety and access to medical care; a good meds policy; close family participation and communication; clear and honest representation of program operations.



At any rate, from my own personal experience, here are some programs I know to be very good:



Spring Creek

Explorations

Montana Academy

Monarch

Mission Mountain





Anyone have some to add?



"

From someone who went to one of these 'good programs' you listed, here's a big FUCK YOU!  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::stab::  ::stab::

You are a fucking retard if you believe these are good programs. But that's a given I suppose...  :wink: Must be fun living in your delusional world.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-18 19:21:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-10-18 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-10-18 14:01:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Swift River can not be placed on the "Good School List."  There are some basic standards that must be met to get on the GOOD LIST:







Accreditation



Certified Teachers



Adult Supervision: NOT supervision by PEERS



Realization that this is a "SCHOOL"--not a FAMILY...these kids already have a family.



Inclusion of all kids in all activities



Licensed by the State







So, sorry! Swift River will not do.







LIST the other schools you know that are "good."







"

I don't agree with your criteria. For instance, if all kids are included in all activities, there is nothing for others to work toward. Motivation is already a problem for most teens. Another problem: Some states don't have licensing. Does that preclude programs in those states doing a good job? And having accreditation and certified teachers: What about all the programs whose students attend public high schools?





I think your post does point up one problem: Because there are so many good ways to approach working with kids, coming up with criteria to apply across the board is tough. Maybe one question could be "Does this program do what it says it does," i.e. if it claims accreditation, it ought to have it.





Another problem that's illustrated by your post is the tendency of most of us to think we can define success for a particular kid or family. No wonder kids are confused.





For a lot of parents, success has been measured in accumulation of goods. The kids show that through their disregard for things like education, personal integrity, a commitment to good health, etc.





It might not hurt here to open your mind to other approaches, and identify things to agree on: basic safety and access to medical care; a good meds policy; close family participation and communication; clear and honest representation of program operations.





At any rate, from my own personal experience, here are some programs I know to be very good:





Spring Creek


Explorations


Montana Academy


Monarch


Mission Mountain








Anyone have some to add?





"

From someone who went to one of these 'good programs' you listed, here's a big FUCK YOU!  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::fuckoff::  ::stab::  ::stab::



You are a fucking retard if you believe these are good programs. But that's a given I suppose...  :wink: Must be fun living in your delusional world."

Like I said- very open-minded and mature.

[Anonymous]

Oakley, Carlbrook, Montana Academy, Swift River- not perfect but good, solid programs.
No regular school is perfect- why do you think emotional growth schools are going to be?

[AtomicAnt]

So you expect the school to do all the work!!! Thats what is wrong with most families today, expecting the school system and day care to raise your kids for you. Sometimes the kids need to be removed from the family because the family is screwed up NOT THE KID, and the entire family needs to participate in order to effect any change.

Then make the whole family go through the required 15 months of incarceration.

Who says 15 months is the magic amount of time needed to fix a teenager?
 
If the family is that screwed up, (not the kid), why is the teenager the one to be punished? Incarcerate the parents in the program and put the teen in a theraputic foster home.

[Anonymous]

Real Simple.
Teens aren't 'perfect'. Why do parents and programs expect them to be?
If you're going to expect perfection from the teens, you should expect it of the program.

Regular schools don't charge $3-6,000 per month to 'fix' kids.
Regular schools don't assume the responsibility of parents 24/7/365.
Regular schools, while not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, have oversight and LIMITS ON THE ABUSE THEY CAN SUBJECT THE KIDS TO.

That's a good start.