Rudy's new job

[Anonymous]

This lady sounds like a young Ottawa in the making...

She won't get it. Everything staff fed to her to keep her son at that school is fact to her. She'll never figure it out, and she's not open at all to hearing the truth.

She really just defines sheep.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-10-06 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:

"This lady sounds like a young Ottawa in the making...



She won't get it. Everything staff fed to her to keep her son at that school is fact to her. She'll never figure it out, and she's not open at all to hearing the truth.



She really just defines sheep. "

Yeah, you got that right.

I said it in another thread today: StrugglingParents live in a world of suspended reality.  They create a "new world" that conforms to their beliefs instead of shaping their world view around objective reality.

These type of folks live in a carefully crafted alternate reality designed solely to reinforce what they've been fed by "the program."  To view the world as it really is is to admit they spend tens of thousands of dollars to have their children abused by strangers because they weren't up to the task of parenting.  To break with program logic is to admit to total failure as a parent.

So, yeah, Rudy Bentz is a great, compassionate saver of children.   You keep on thinking that, lady.  And have another Kool-Aid.  Be sure to drink it with a Krazy Straw...

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-06 16:19:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"

On 2005-10-06 15:52:00, Anonymous wrote:


"This lady sounds like a young Ottawa in the making...





She won't get it. Everything staff fed to her to keep her son at that school is fact to her. She'll never figure it out, and she's not open at all to hearing the truth.





She really just defines sheep. "

Yeah, you got that right.



I said it in another thread today: StrugglingParents live in a world of suspended reality.  They create a "new world" that conforms to their beliefs instead of shaping their world view around objective reality.



These type of folks live in a carefully crafted alternate reality designed solely to reinforce what they've been fed by "the program."  To view the world as it really is is to admit they spend tens of thousands of dollars to have their children abused by strangers because they weren't up to the task of parenting.  To break with program logic is to admit to total failure as a parent.



So, yeah, Rudy Bentz is a great, compassionate saver of children.   You keep on thinking that, lady.  And have another Kool-Aid.  Be sure to drink it with a Krazy Straw...
"

I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view.  After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs,  but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone.

[Anonymous]

And let's not forget the "stockholm syndrome" issue, as well. Your kids might not even tell you how assholey the staff are, because they might even think they like them at the time. Caroline Wolf was incredibly popular at RMA, for example. (I hated her.) And I myself admired Sharon Kreider and considered her a "friend", even though she had a reputation for being quite brutal and tore me a new one in several raps. (She also did my containment in the Values.) Anyone who has been in a Sharon rap can back me up on this. She can cut to the quick. I mean, she wasn't irresponsible or as abusive as Rudy was, but my point was that I admired and respected someone I probably shouldn't have.

[Anonymous]

Look lady, just because your kid is doing "well" since graduating ASR DOESN'T mean he didn't get mentally abused by staff like Rudy Bentz. If not him, than there were plenty of other staff there to do it for him.

I graduated one of these programs, and by society's standards I'm doing very well! I get very good grades at an excellent school, my parents and I have decent relationships, blah blah, what else do you want me to say? It doesn't change the fact that those schools were a terrible place, and some of the people working there were just digusting people. And no, I won't pretend to know those staff 1/1000th as well as someone like Dysfunction.

Mentally, I'll never get over that place. And you know what? As well as I get along with my Mom these days (and believe me, that was an ugly relationship back in the day), I still can't tell her the truth about that place. Because she won't hear it. She bought into the BS so badly that she'll never accept anything different. And silently, every day, I go on not able to forgive her for that. Sounds like you just don't have a clue.

[Anonymous]

The immortal words of our favorite Ottawa...

I am the parent of a young man who graduated from RMA in 1999.

What shocks me is the "Hate CEDU" sites that I find on the internet--unbelievable to me that others have had such different experiences---are they wrong, dishonest, confused, I ask myself? I have no answer.
ottawa5@aol.com


And then this new lady...

I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view. After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs, but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone.


Boy, the similarities are striking....

[Troll Control]

****"I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view. After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs, but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone."***


This is typical faulty logic employed by "programmies."  This particular logical fallacy is called "Post Hoc," or "post hoc ergo propter hoc" (after this therefore because of
this).

For every program "success story" this philosophical fallacy is employed:  The problem was gone after the program, so the program fixed the problem.  

Interestingly, this logic is strictly avoided in cases of program "failures": He/she "just didn't get it," or "didn't work the program."

To reiterate, program supporters/apologists will say anything to support their view/dogma regardless of how it is contraindicative to objective reality.

This lady is just another example of this fallacious reasoning.

_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."

-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-07 05:36 ]

[Troll Control]

Rudy's new job: Abusive Animal. :skull:

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-07 05:34:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"****"I guess I'll take that as a Compromise and if it helps I understand it is hard to see my point of view. After seeing how well my kid is doing after attending ASR it is hard to believe some of the things I hear about the programs, but just because I cant convince you I wont belittle you, but I am just as frustrated sometimes when I post here so your not alone."***





This is typical faulty logic employed by "programmies."  This particular logical fallacy is called "Post Hoc," or "post hoc ergo propter hoc" (after this therefore because of

this).



For every program "success story" this philosophical fallacy is employed:  The problem was gone after the program, so the program fixed the problem.  



Interestingly, this logic is strictly avoided in cases of program "failures": He/she "just didn't get it," or "didn't work the program."



To reiterate, program supporters/apologists will say anything to support their view/dogma regardless of how it is contraindicative to objective reality.



This lady is just another example of this fallacious reasoning.



_________________

"Compassion is the basis of morality."



-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2005-10-07 05:36 ]"

***To reiterate, program supporters/apologists will say anything to support their view/dogma regardless of how it is contraindicative to objective reality.****
Of all people to say that!!  This site is loaded with people who turn a deaf ear to "anyone" who did well after attending one of the schools and dismiss them as stepford kids, or brain washed.  You should step back a few paces and look at what is going on here, you are not looking for objective reality, you are chasing it away.  I could log on and say "I never have heard of TBS but I support you 100%, I hate them"  And I would get 100 cheers and supporters.

[Anonymous]

That post hoc fallacy is a two edged sword, you know. You point out how "programmies" falsely think that because they/their children are doing well post-CEDU, that it must be because CEDU helped them.

Well I think it is an overwhelming theme around here for people whose lives are not as stellar as they had hoped, or who are fucked up in the head, to employ that exact same fallacy and say that it is because of CEDU.

No one is going to get anywhere around here arguing so deafly to one another. There is no debating on these forums...just a bunch of anti-CEDU kids and adults alike with their views solidly in place bashing on a bunch of kids and adults who saw the programs as beneficial. No one accepts each others arguments, and weightless, hypocritical comments are being flung back and forth from both sides.

Doesn't anyone have something real to debate about?

[Anonymous]

How about evolution vs.intelligent deisgn?

[TheWho]

On 2005-10-09 16:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"That post hoc fallacy is a two edged sword, you know. You point out how "programmies" falsely think that because they/their children are doing well post-CEDU, that it must be because CEDU helped them.



Well I think it is an overwhelming theme around here for people whose lives are not as stellar as they had hoped, or who are fucked up in the head, to employ that exact same fallacy and say that it is because of CEDU.



No one is going to get anywhere around here arguing so deafly to one another. There is no debating on these forums...just a bunch of anti-CEDU kids and adults alike with their views solidly in place bashing on a bunch of kids and adults who saw the programs as beneficial. No one accepts each others arguments, and weightless, hypocritical comments are being flung back and forth from both sides.



Doesn't anyone have something real to debate about?"

How about a debate about the best way to handle this generation or the next generation of kids who are at risk.  Should we improve the boarding schools?  Educate the parents on how to weigh what is important?  Give advice to the teens?

[Anonymous]

There you go, that's a great start. Here's some fuel for that.

I spent 2+ years at BCA, hated the entire experience, and definitely agree with the posters around here (the ones with real things to say of course, not the trolls). Before I went to BCA I was a complete fucking mess and going absolutely nowhere in life, and now I'm doing pretty well for myself. Now of course I agree with what DJ said about not falling into the post hoc trap.

But then the other day, the father of a good friend of mine called me about his son, the little brother of my good friend. He's a good man, a good father, and has raised 4 very good kids, but has one bad egg. The kid is completely out of control and doesn't think he has to answer to anyone. He's only 15, so he has about, oh say, a year or so before he starts really damaging his life.

He said "you graduated from that school, Boulder River, or whatever it's called. Should I send _____ there?"

So what a place to be in. I hate that place. I think BCA was terrible. I told him no, not a good idea to send him there, and without having to dive into my own personal reasons, I told him that it's just re-opening and not worth his trust right now.

But what the hell is he supposed to do with his kid? He said he doesn't want to give up, he doesn't want to seem like a failure of a father, but this kid just won't listen, and it's obvious that it's either going to take....

a. a 5 am wake-up from an escort, or...
b. a nice bid in juvy, which he might manage to avoid for a few years, but then it just gets worse.

I mean, I definitely don't want to see another kid get fucked up in the head by a program. So what other options are there out there? With this kid, there's really no "well, just keep trying to tough it out. He'll get it eventually." Or is it better to just put him in God's hands and hope for the best than to send him to the brand new BCA?


Haha, and by the way, I don't have kids yet...so this isn't one of those "well, my 'friend' has this problem.

[Anonymous]

Hey Serb, you talked about a school you went to that you liked--would that help in this case?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-10-09 21:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hey Serb, you talked about a school you went to that you liked--would that help in this case?"

I attended Rock Point School in Burlington, Vermont.  It is not a Behavior Modification
facility by any stretch of the imagination.
It's nothing like Cedu at all. Just a typical NOT-FOR-PROFIT Boarding school.

The focus of this school is academics, there's no emotional mind fucking whatsoever.  Students who request it, can see a therapist in town once a week, or attend AA/NA meetings (the school provides transportation). Other than that, therapy is not part of the curriculum.  

I found this refreshing, and liked the fact that Rock Point Staff treated my like a young-adult, and not like a pre-schooler as cedu staff had done.  I was allowed to visit town 5 days a week.
I was allowed to have a girlfriend.  I kept close contact with all my friends at home, and I could call whoever I wanted, whenever I wanted.
I spent my summers at home, plus had 4 scheduled vacations during the academic school year.

I liked this school because they rewarded academic achievement with extra privledges.  
How far I could go with this was entirely up to me.  I was even allowed to work part time jobs in town, and I participated in an internship at the local PBS TV station in Burlington.

The school also took me on field trips to Boston & Montreal, as well as camping in Vermont, New Hampshire, & upstate New York.  We also went to rock concerts, museums, football games, movies,bowling, even pro-wresting matches...
They provided plenty of positive outlets for having fun.

(ANON) To answer your original question: yes Rockpoint School could be very helpful in this case; but the only way to be sure is for this man to contact the school, and visit with his son.  Unlike Cedu, Rock Point staff will meet with your child and assess their individual needs.  After which, they will give you an honest recommendation of whether or not the the school is right for your child.  

Additionally, Rock Point has it's own educational consultant on staff.  Even if Rock Point doesn't accept your child, they will at least guide you in finding an appropriate school for your child (free of charge).

On a final note, Rock Point School was Infinitely superior to what any cedu school could ever hope to offer; for about 1/3 of the cost!  Tuition at Rock Point School from 1992-1994 was only $16,000.00 per year, compared to the $45,000.00 per year Cedu was charging at that time!

With those kind of savings, I strongly suggest that this man try the normal boarding school route, before he looks into these Bullshit- Emotional-Growth-Scam-Centers .